DharmaSpace,
Okay, I get you have the assumption that the DL is a Buddha, which I don't happen to share, though I respect you can have a different outlook.
Concerning karma, of course, anything that happens to us individually, as practioners, we can think you know, I am experiencing the results of past karmas--- like good or bad. Okay, this is good lojong practice. When we see others suffering though, do we just sit by and let them suffer? I don't think so, as it is important to act relatively to help them, if we are still out and about in the world (rather than in a cave like Milarepa, close to enlightenment). If we are still out here, not in retreat, then you know, we have a responsibility to try to help one another. Now, if the DL were teaching like backwards to get people to do more practice (logically possible) then don't you think right activity is to outwardly (because he's teaching backwards) tell him like leave people alone, and try to get people to be kind to each other? Because that is a bodhisattva's practice too. And I also think it is giving people too many excuses to act meanly to one another--- oh they just have bad karma--- I feel compassion, but nothing I can do.... well when I get people telling each other that there is nothing that they can do, then I have to wonder, why not? Why do we have to let the "karmas" ripen in this case unchecked, on other human Dorje Shugden practitioners, when we would intervene to save the life of even an insect?
I think people teach this to one another, because it comes from a misteaching (reverse or otherwise) that comes from the DL school (overtly okay, teaching backward you can think, to get us to argue and develop reasoning skills) that anything we do to the Shugdens is fine because they are harming the Dl's long life, by praying to a Buddha we think is a spirit. So we will argue that anyone who tries to help them, well , they shouldn't bother, because you know.... it's just their karma.
So, to me, it's not like someone like you is really trying to harm other people, but rather that a lot of the wrong teachings have been emphasised to keep the DL school happy. Like if people in old Tibet were too afraid to do anything against the DL, his court, or invaders he invited, well then they would have to say, in order to keep their long lives, well, it's karma. Okay, and there were a lot of teachings in the past that emphasized that people would go to hell easily. I was at a teaching on powa by a Kagyu lama named Ole, whom the 16th Karmapa said was an emanation of Mahakala, and he said that people go to hell much less for a lot of karmas then we might think, but teachings on going to hell were common in Tibet, more or less, to paraphrase, to keep everyone from talking against the government....
So, anyway, he did say, of course, to be careful of the lower realms, but I think a lot of times, it seems to me like there has been a picking and choosing of teachings, both lojong and HYT that favor the everybody be quiet and listen to the goverment (DL-- sorry) approach. So, if you say anything against the government (DL) then you say something against a holy being, and might go to hell.... actually the same applies to anyone we talk about, but everyone keeps trying to force people (I don't mean you but generally) to believe this guy (DL) is a Buddha. I think those teachings about karma are similar, okay, so I am supposed to try to save bugs from drowning--- I don't just say, oh well, too bad... his karma... instead I try to help, with immediate and relative action the bug from drowning (even though he isn't in that great of a rebirth, okay, and we say a mantra and wish for his karma to clear so he enters the human realm soon and starts the path to enlightenment with a qualified guide). Okay, so this is a bug, already in a low realm. So, what about a human who does Shugden, they are human. We are supposed to let their human lives be thrown away as well as potential other human lives by perpetuating the notion that everything the DL does is right so we just play along. I do understand how you feel, but my lamas, the ones I have had that I think are Buddhas, they don't hurt people, or order people to hurt people. These are many Kagyupa and Shugden lamas, as well as some Nyingmapa; I don't really see the DL as a Buddha--- so he would need to be convincing on that--- and by encouraging hate (forgive me, but that is what he is doing relatively) then how can people really expect us to buy that? I did go to one of his teachings (no empowerment, no I hadn't heard of Shugden, but I just wasn't that impressed, okay. He didn't act like Chenrezig, but the 17 Karmapa did (Thaye Dorje) so I was expecting wow--- there must be lots of Chenrezigs in New Delhi today, but I said okay, well, if that one (DL) is a Chenrezig then I am guessing he didn't want me to notice.
![Wink ;)](http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
which is also perfectly logically possible).
At any rate, I am just saying we need to act relatively to take down this ban, including encouraging people to ignore the DL's injunctions, because overtly they are against the bodhisattva vow, regardless of how they may play out secretly.