Why DS practitioners are NOT CHINESE SPIES!

[honeydakini]

Consider THIS most illogical and silly accusation:

-       That Dorje Shugden practitioners are receiving money/bribes from the Chinese
-   DS practitioners are Chinese spies
-   DS practitioners don’t believe in the cause and independence of Tibet and support Chinese takeover
-   DS practitioners support Chinese hatred of Dalai Lama

Here’s a few points to contemplate as to why this argument holds absolutely no water, not even a drop:

1)   The practice of Dorje Shugden has been around for 350 years BEFORE any of this China issue/politics were even heard of. The people of Tibet very seldom even left their regions, least of all travelled to China! So what was happening then? Were the lamas of Tibet 350 years ago receiving money from China? Were they also spying on Tibet and reporting to China then?

2)   Before any of this issue of Tibet Independence/Chinese takeover arose, back in them old, old days, did Trijang Rinpoche therefore receive a salary from China? What about Pabongkha Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche? Were they all receiving salaries from China too? Were they armed with a webcam and a walkie talkie to spy on Tibetan politics then also? If so, then why is it that when they moved to India, the Chinese didn’t just pile on a huge amount of money to help them out? Why were they squatting in tents for years?

3)   If this was the case, then all the MILLIONS of people in China who are doing DS practice now must be receiving lots of money from China also. Do the Chinese have so much money to just give it out to people just because they’re doing a certain spiritual practice? Is China so free to go around investigating who’s a DS practitioner so they can give them money?

4)   Do you think it would really be that easy to just go up to the Chinese government and say, “Hey Hu! I support DS, gimme some money, support me!” In that case, ANY of us could just make up a lie and pretend that we practise DS and go get some free money! Why don’t we all do that?

5)   There are many, many people all over the world – from all backgrounds, cultures and countries – who practise Dorje Shugden and who do not have anything to do with China; I daresay many of them they probably don’t even know anyone from China. It’s impossible that every practitioner or teacher of DS would be receiving money or support from China

6)   Here’s a shocker: even if they WERE receiving money from Chinese people, what would be so bad about that if they were using it to spread Dharma?! Look at what the Gurus are really teaching – they are all teaching the same things as the Dalai Lama himself: the teachings of mind transformation, karma, the four noble truths, compassion, bodhicitta, lojong, Lamrim. If these teachings grew in the world, brought people benefit and incredible transformation, and it was by some support of “Chinese money” then why would that be a bad thing? It is also merit for the sponsors which is good for them and a way for them to also receive the benefit of Dharma. If we are as holy-schmoly as we purport to be, we would sincerely wish for others to also receive the dharma and practice so we would actually be happy that our perceived “enemies” are doing Dharma.

When I was at university in the last 90s, there were accusations that people who shopped and supported Marks & Spencers were supporters of the Jews, promoted Israeli politics and wished to oppress the Palestinians. Our university were gathering students to petition against having Marks & Spencers products in our university shops. Doesn’t it sound ridiculous to make this claim that just because you like eating M&S’ Victoria sponge cake, it almost means that you support blasting up Palestinian families and running huge tanks through Palestinian settlements?

Yes, quite ridiculous.

Just as ridiculous as the claim that just because you engage in a certain spiritual practice which has been around for the past 350 years, it also means you are being bribed by a big country to do away with the Dalai Lama and destroy a small country.

[crazycloud]

Consider THIS most illogical and silly accusation:

-       That Dorje Shugden practitioners are receiving money/bribes from the Chinese
-   DS practitioners are Chinese spies
-   DS practitioners don’t believe in the cause and independence of Tibet and support Chinese takeover
-   DS practitioners support Chinese hatred of Dalai Lama

Here’s a few points to contemplate as to why this argument holds absolutely no water, not even a drop:

1)   The practice of Dorje Shugden has been around for 350 years BEFORE any of this China issue/politics were even heard of. The people of Tibet very seldom even left their regions, least of all travelled to China! So what was happening then? Were the lamas of Tibet 350 years ago receiving money from China? Were they also spying on Tibet and reporting to China then?

2)   Before any of this issue of Tibet Independence/Chinese takeover arose, back in them old, old days, did Trijang Rinpoche therefore receive a salary from China? What about Pabongkha Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche? Were they all receiving salaries from China too? Were they armed with a webcam and a walkie talkie to spy on Tibetan politics then also? If so, then why is it that when they moved to India, the Chinese didn’t just pile on a huge amount of money to help them out? Why were they squatting in tents for years?

3)   If this was the case, then all the MILLIONS of people in China who are doing DS practice now must be receiving lots of money from China also. Do the Chinese have so much money to just give it out to people just because they’re doing a certain spiritual practice? Is China so free to go around investigating who’s a DS practitioner so they can give them money?

4)   Do you think it would really be that easy to just go up to the Chinese government and say, “Hey Hu! I support DS, gimme some money, support me!” In that case, ANY of us could just make up a lie and pretend that we practise DS and go get some free money! Why don’t we all do that?

5)   There are many, many people all over the world – from all backgrounds, cultures and countries – who practise Dorje Shugden and who do not have anything to do with China; I daresay many of them they probably don’t even know anyone from China. It’s impossible that every practitioner or teacher of DS would be receiving money or support from China

6)   Here’s a shocker: even if they WERE receiving money from Chinese people, what would be so bad about that if they were using it to spread Dharma?! Look at what the Gurus are really teaching – they are all teaching the same things as the Dalai Lama himself: the teachings of mind transformation, karma, the four noble truths, compassion, bodhicitta, lojong, Lamrim. If these teachings grew in the world, brought people benefit and incredible transformation, and it was by some support of “Chinese money” then why would that be a bad thing? It is also merit for the sponsors which is good for them and a way for them to also receive the benefit of Dharma. If we are as holy-schmoly as we purport to be, we would sincerely wish for others to also receive the dharma and practice so we would actually be happy that our perceived “enemies” are doing Dharma.

When I was at university in the last 90s, there were accusations that people who shopped and supported Marks & Spencers were supporters of the Jews, promoted Israeli politics and wished to oppress the Palestinians. Our university were gathering students to petition against having Marks & Spencers products in our university shops. Doesn’t it sound ridiculous to make this claim that just because you like eating M&S’ Victoria sponge cake, it almost means that you support blasting up Palestinian families and running huge tanks through Palestinian settlements?

Yes, quite ridiculous.

Just as ridiculous as the claim that just because you engage in a certain spiritual practice which has been around for the past 350 years, it also means you are being bribed by a big country to do away with the Dalai Lama and destroy a small country.

Nice one, HD.

It's true, it is as you say, silly, illogical and ridiculous. What type of people say such things, even when doing so causes tremendous harm? Silly, illogical and ridiculous people. Like, well, you know.....

Don't let's all get exited, of course they are not this way by nature. They can be helped, healed. But first we need to stop them desrtoying themselves and others

[thor]

This is just the ridiculous-ness of the TGIE again. Back in the 80's and 90's, a similar situation existed with Taiwan. Any Tibetan with links to Taiwan, whose relatives/associated had any type of dealings in Taiwan or who even breathed or smelt like a Taiwanese, was automatically labeled a Taiwanese spy.

Then when the Dalai Lama visited Taiwan for the first time in 1997, all the accusations miraculously stopped...

TGIE is just looking for scapegoats and distractions to divert attention from their political failures. It is happening again with China and Dorje Shugden now.

[Vajraprotector]

Thank you for taking the time to share with us re your observation Honeydakini. I have more clearer idea about TGIE’s “argument” after reading your points, especially:

3)   If this was the case, then all the MILLIONS of people in China who are doing DS practice now must be receiving lots of money from China also. Do the Chinese have so much money to just give it out to people just because they’re doing a certain spiritual practice? Is China so free to go around investigating who’s a DS practitioner so they can give them money?

4)   Do you think it would really be that easy to just go up to the Chinese government and say, “Hey Hu! I support DS, gimme some money, support me!” In that case, ANY of us could just make up a lie and pretend that we practise DS and go get some free money! Why don’t we all do that?

5)   There are many, many people all over the world – from all backgrounds, cultures and countries – who practise Dorje Shugden and who do not have anything to do with China; I daresay many of them they probably don’t even know anyone from China. It’s impossible that every practitioner or teacher of DS would be receiving money or support from China

And I think the Americans who practice DS wouldn’t dare to be Chinese spies, would they?

And Duldzin, thank you for sharing with us more about TGIE's Taiwan issue. I really had no idea.

[Gabby Potter]

Why do we want to receive money from the Chinese? IF we really were Chinese Spies, what are the benefits that we get? What are the benefits we get from harming the Dalai Lama? We will never harm His Holiness, NEVER. Because we believe in Buddha Dharma and the working of karma, we are all here to practise Buddha Dharma and not to harm anyone because we get nothing out of it but if we were to harm others instead, can you imagine the amount of bad karma? I don't think anyone is up to that.