WHO ARE WE REALLY ELIMINATING????

[harrynephew]

Dear All,

I would like to bring everyone's attention to the gruesome acts of the TGIE and the people involved with their dirty works. Regardless of how you would like to see it, karma is karma.

We have heard that Dagom Rinpoche is suspected to be murdered slowly with poison.

We have read from the interview with HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche that there's a plot within his household with connections to the TGIE who is trying to kill his close manager (changtso)

many many more of such news which disturbs the minds of pure practitioners (let's not even mention if it comes to the knowledge of our holy gurus)

recounting all such events planned by people wishing to harm DS lamas, practitioners and anything else to do with DS and in the name of protecting HHDL's life (TGIE is doing so because the practice of DS will harm HHDL's life). I think the real cause for HHDL's life to be short and to pass into his next incarnation soon isn't because DS practitioners are practicing DS but all these indespicable acts of killing Lamas and practitioners who do not mean harm in the name of another Lama will not be a cause for their Lama to live long and fulfill their Lama's vision and wishes.

As such, I urge all such extreemists to please stop hurting and murder of these great Beings. Their presence in the world will only help preserve sacred teachings of love, wisdom and skilful means laid down by the lord and master Buddha Shakyamuni

At the end of the day, if it is Dorje Shugden that u wanna eliminate, it will just be a wheel of sharp weapon turning back at u and hurting the spiritual guide u need most.

in agony

H1N1

Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.

DharmaD,

Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.

Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.

Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.

I think it's ALL of the seven cardinal sins actually, especially if it's our (heaven forbid) guru. Because our guru is the Buddha and enlightened, more precious than our mother and father, he/she is our Dharma teacher, a precept master and doing so would disrupt the harmony of the sangha.

Okay, enough terrible talk.

I think one reason why creating schism in the sangha leads to terrible consequences is because of how wrong view is inherent to the act. For me, wrong view is one of the most difficult things to get rid of. And once we have such a view, we continue to commit negative acts again and again...the karma just continues to build, because our view affects everything we do.

So from wrong view, we create schism. And from creating schism, we create wrong view - watching monks and nuns argue against one another, and us adding fuel to the fire, isn't the way to promote Buddha's teachings. Doing so drives us away from the Dharma, so we don't even have the chance to learn the teachings that will help stop us from creating even more schism!

Sorry if that was a bit muddled, clearly I'm not at my most eloquent today.

[beggar]

Well that's right Harry Nephew. That's a good reference you made there to the Wheel of Sharp Weapons.

Especially since Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, then anything we do in relations to him, whether it is positive or negative or all the degrees of between, WE reap the karmic repercussions and not dorje shugden! The TGIE show up their foolishness in all their actions.

Aren't we taught that by karma, if we destroy people's relationship with their Guru or we destroy the three jewels in any way, we create the causes to never meet with the dharma, a pure path or pure teachers every again? I think it is very sad actually and very paradoxical that the way the TGIE act is out of some delusion that they are trying to protect the Dharma but in actual fact they are ruining their very own chances to be near the Dharma ever again!

Of course, we have the freedom and the right to do a practice or not (depending on what our own teachers have advised us to do). It is impossible for us to do every single practice anyway! But we MUST maintain respect for other people's practices. Destroying them can only mean we destroy our own practices. Wheel of sharp weapons, indeed!

yours, beggar

[Helena]

Thanks, HN for using the Wheel of Sharp Weapons reference.

Its so true and Beggar further emphasized those crucial points.

The below is something I found in the net and would like to share. These verses were written by Atisha.

Source: http://www.bodhicitta.net/The%20Wheel%20of%20Sharp%20Weapons.htm

The wheel of Sharp weapons Effectively Striking the Heart of the foe' has been composed by the great Yogi Dharmaraksita in his retreat in the jungle where many fierce animals pray. What this great Yogi, the possessor of vast scriptural knowledge, the full powers of logic and deep profound insight, has written here is the essence of the teachings of all his holy Gurus. He always practised in accordance with this essence in his fearsome jungle retreat during the degenerate age in which he lived.

From among his many disciples, Dharmaraksita transmitted these teachings to Atisa (982--1054); and Atisa practised them wherever he traveled in order to tame those who ware most wild. When Atisa developed true insight into the two Bodhicittas through these teachings, he composed the following verses:

I went through much hardship abandoning royalty,
But by collecting much virtuous merit,
I met my true Guru, Dharmaraksita,
By showing me these supreme nectar like teachings,
He has granted me sovereignty over my mind;
So that now I have attained all the forceful opponents,
Having memorised fully these words he has taught.

Although I do not favour a partisan viewpoint-
Whenever I study the various teachings
I always make effort to broaden my wisdom
To see boundless wonders in every tradition-
Yet I have to admit that these teachings especially
Have been of great help in this age of decay.

In losing his royalty, he gained sovereignty over his own mind. I think those are really powerful words.

How many of us would allow ourselves to lose the royal Ego ruling our entire being in order to gain the sovereignty of our freedom?

Yes, these teachings are especially helpful and much needed in this time of degeneration.

I will post the actual Wheel of Sharp Weapons in a new topic in order to have it available in this Forum.

Perhaps, we can start like a mini book club in this forum by discussing this topic as a start. Then we can learn more from one another and deepen our understanding together.

Would like to request Harry Nephew to share more of his thoughts on the Wheel of Sharp Weapons as he seems to be so knowledgeable about it.

Thanking all in advance.

[beggar]

what is amazing to me is the methods that people employ while thinking that this is the best way to defend "their side" of the fence and enrol more people onto their side!

so on the one hand there are people plotting these very evil schemes to get rid of high lamas
and on the other you have people (some in robes) protesting on the street against their own buddhist pope

and they hope to inspire people in this way? it's impossible

The world will take one look and say, "I don't need this!" There are enough politics everywhere else we go. we don't need it when we go to religion.

i don't understand how sending out death threats against lamas or writing hate-filled, rhetorical books against the dalai lama will endear anyone to either "side" of this controversy.

TK's started a new thread on why we shouldn't over-criticise the dalai lama. Here it is: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=897.0
The same can be applied to those who criticise or attack ds lamas and practitioners also.

At the heart of it, it's about doing practice and no real practitioner would act in those ways, no matter who they are "for" or "against " We enrol people by being kind and giving them knowledge and respect their beliefs enough to allow them to make up their own minds and conclusions. not through force or fear.

I am grateful for brave warriors like TK who stand up and show the real buddhist way. thank you.

yours, beggar

[Lone Hermit]

Dear All,

I would like to bring everyone's attention to the gruesome acts of the TGIE and the people involved with their dirty works. Regardless of how you would like to see it, karma is karma.

We have heard that Dagom Rinpoche is suspected to be murdered slowly with poison.

We have read from the interview with HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche that there's a plot within his household with connections to the TGIE who is trying to kill his close manager (changtso)

You have not read Rinpoches interview accurately. He specifically states that it was Shugdenpas who were planning to kill his manager and that after discovering the plot he decided to disrobe and go to America. We should be careful not to misrepresent the holy words of such high Lamas.

As for Dagom Rinpoche is there any proof that he was assasinated or is it just something people say in order to fuel suspicion against the TGIE?  It's a very serious allegation and should be properly investigated by the authorities if true.