Author Topic: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!  (Read 18805 times)

Ensapa

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 04:12:44 PM »
i'm curious, why do some incarnations change their names? I can understand if there was controversy behind the names like Pabongkha Rinpoche needing to change his name because of the political issues behind his previous incarnations, but what about Trijang Rinpoche? Trijang Rinpoche has had so many incredibly powerful incarnations previously but the names have all been different until now? I believe the current Trijang Rinpoche is the second Trijang Rinpoche, why did he not keep his previous names?

Same with Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.. why was he not known as the 2nd Panchen Sonam Drakpa? There certainly wasn't controversy there when Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was young?

Any light shed on this would be appreciated.

The current Trijang Rinpoche is the 3rd Trijang Rinpoche, and he is still using the title Trijang Rinpoche. Trijang is just a title and he can have a different personal name or refuge name. It is quite rare that a tulku has to change his name, and it has only happened in a handful of limited times in history. Also, sometimes the different emanations from the same lama might have carved their own niche and have their own set of contributions and thus, get their own titles which can sometimes be completely unrelated to their previous incarnation. For example, Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen did not get to keep his Buton Rinpoche title. Dalai Lama was not referred to as Dromtrung Rinpoche either. But what is interesting to note is that the Ganden Phodrang failed to ban Chakya Rolpa Dorje and Taranatha from incarnating: their incarnations went to mongolia instead where Taranatha became the Jetsun Khalka and Chakya Rolpa became Chakya Khutuku. So whether or not a tulku can incarnate is not the will of some silly government but the will of the tulku himself.

To correct dondrup: at one time, there can actually be more than one form of a previous teacher but only one emanation of the teacher is recognized and enthroned as the actual teacher, probably to avoid confusion or because it would disrupt the activity of the other emanations. One lama has 5 emanations, and one of the can teach on the throne, the other teaches as a beggar yelling nasty words at people at the market, another can be quiet office worker who has an unusual interest in buddhist, another one can be somewhere in a university starting a Buddhist movement and the last one could just be a normal person who leads a normal, mundane life but is in actuality, helping people to connect to Buddhism and planting seeds in a very passive way. There is no telling to how a tulku will manifest or appear, but one thing for sure is that authentic tulkus will for sure, come back to benefit others.

Big Uncle

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 04:50:43 PM »
i'm curious, why do some incarnations change their names? I can understand if there was controversy behind the names like Pabongkha Rinpoche needing to change his name because of the political issues behind his previous incarnations, but what about Trijang Rinpoche? Trijang Rinpoche has had so many incredibly powerful incarnations previously but the names have all been different until now? I believe the current Trijang Rinpoche is the second Trijang Rinpoche, why did he not keep his previous names?

Same with Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.. why was he not known as the 2nd Panchen Sonam Drakpa? There certainly wasn't controversy there when Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was young?

Any light shed on this would be appreciated.
I think the Lamas have been reincarnating since Buddhism arrive from India to Tibet. Real and authentic Lamas are not interested in tracing their own incarnations because of the attention it brings. In fact, that idea didn't arrive until quite late in the development of Buddhism in Tibet.

I believe that different incarnation lines were established at various points in history. For example, the Dalai Lama's incarnation was more or less established during the second Gendun Gyatso period. Hence, the incarnation name was established as Gyatso instead of the earlier connection with Dromtonpa.

I believe the recognition of an incarnation is dependent on the disciples of that incarnation. If the disciples actively promote the Lama, especially after death, he will return and assume the incarnation name. If the samaya is broken, the Lama may return but will be in a different land to teach a different set of disciples. The incarnation name is ultimately just a human-impose label that can be used to assist the Lama's works. If it burdens, the Lama will take on a different appearance and name so that the Dharma will be spread farther and wider.

Ensapa

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2012, 05:30:27 PM »
I think the Lamas have been reincarnating since Buddhism arrive from India to Tibet. Real and authentic Lamas are not interested in tracing their own incarnations because of the attention it brings. In fact, that idea didn't arrive until quite late in the development of Buddhism in Tibet.
Buddhist teachers have always been reincarnating. There are many masters who are the actual incarnation of a previous Buddhist master but well, there was no need at that time to identify as people were more concerned with the results of the teachings, and people had time for the long training as opposed to a quick fix so they were not easily impressed with big names. As time passed and people become impressed with big names, the strategy had to change and the whole reincarnation thing was to get people's attention and respect so that the Dharma could go in faster.

I believe that different incarnation lines were established at various points in history. For example, the Dalai Lama's incarnation was more or less established during the second Gendun Gyatso period. Hence, the incarnation name was established as Gyatso instead of the earlier connection with Dromtonpa.
Or Songtsen Gampo. Actually, the Dalai Lama's "actual" incarnation line is the monkey that mated with the ogress. In tibetan culture, the Tibetans believe that they descended from the children of the Monkey and the ogress. The monkey is believed to be the emanation of Chenrenzig, and this is one of the reasons why they "love" the Dalai Lama.

I believe the recognition of an incarnation is dependent on the disciples of that incarnation. If the disciples actively promote the Lama, especially after death, he will return and assume the incarnation name. If the samaya is broken, the Lama may return but will be in a different land to teach a different set of disciples. The incarnation name is ultimately just a human-impose label that can be used to assist the Lama's works. If it burdens, the Lama will take on a different appearance and name so that the Dharma will be spread farther and wider.
Its not just about the Lama taking back the same name. It is about the disciples and whether or not the disciples keep their promise and keep up the practices. Kalu Rinpoche's disciples promoted the Lama's name, but they broke their samaya by indulging in politics, so the current incarnation breaks away from his old students.

A real Lama or tulku will always find ways to benefit people and there is no telling on how he or she will do it. We cannot put a stop to what they are doing with just a simple ban. they dont work that way. tulkus are here to benefit and teach the dharma, whether or not they do it through a dharma center.

dsiluvu

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2012, 09:33:44 PM »
To correct dondrup: at one time, there can actually be more than one form of a previous teacher but only one emanation of the teacher is recognized and enthroned as the actual teacher, probably to avoid confusion or because it would disrupt the activity of the other emanations. One lama has 5 emanations, and one of the can teach on the throne, the other teaches as a beggar yelling nasty words at people at the market, another can be quiet office worker who has an unusual interest in buddhist, another one can be somewhere in a university starting a Buddhist movement and the last one could just be a normal person who leads a normal, mundane life but is in actuality, helping people to connect to Buddhism and planting seeds in a very passive way. There is no telling to how a tulku will manifest or appear, but one thing for sure is that authentic tulkus will for sure, come back to benefit others.

Usually the one who is recognised and enthroned will the one that has the emanated mind of that Lama. Hence although the Tulku can incarnate back and emanate in so many different bodies/vessels... the one that we want or is recognised is the one that has the Lama's mind. And I don't think having a Ban imposed on Dorje Shugden's incarnations is quite pointless and ridiculous. It is just another excuse made up so that they are politically correct and that they tow the line for this. Look everyone knows you cannot Ban a Buddha Lama...

Ensapa

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 03:57:46 PM »
Usually the one who is recognised and enthroned will the one that has the emanated mind of that Lama. Hence although the Tulku can incarnate back and emanate in so many different bodies/vessels... the one that we want or is recognised is the one that has the Lama's mind. And I don't think having a Ban imposed on Dorje Shugden's incarnations is quite pointless and ridiculous. It is just another excuse made up so that they are politically correct and that they tow the line for this. Look everyone knows you cannot Ban a Buddha Lama...


For some reason, reading about how the CTA tried to ban the reincarnations of high lamas from returning does crack a smile and sounds ridiculous in many ways and it kinda reminds me of this article that I read about China requiring lamas to ask for permission to reincarnate from the government of China. Isnt it the same? And the CTA reacted so strongly when this statement was released by China. What is the difference between banning someone from reincarnating and forcing them to seek permission first? both also require an authoritative approval before they are allowed to reincarnate.

Quote
China Tells Tibet's Lamas to Obtain Permission Before They Reincarnate
Tibet’s lamas have been banned from reincarnation without permission from China’s atheist leaders. The ban is included in new rules intended to assert Beijing’s authority over Tibet’s restive and deeply Buddhist people.
“The so-called reincarnated living Buddha without government approval is illegal and invalid,” according to the order, which comes into effect on September 1.
The 14-part regulation issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs is aimed at limiting the influence of Tibet’s exiled god-king, the Dalai Lama, and at preventing the re-incarnation of the 72-year-old monk without approval from Beijing.
It is the latest in a series of measures by the Communist authorities to tighten their grip over Tibet. Reincarnate lamas, known as tulkus, often lead religious communities and oversee the training of monks, giving them enormous influence over religious life in the Himalayan region. Anyone outside China is banned from taking part in the process of seeking and recognising a living Buddha, effectively excluding the Dalai Lama, who traditionally can play an important role in giving recognition to candidate reincarnates.
 
For the first time China has given the Government the power to ensure that no new living Buddha can be identified, sounding a possible death knell to a mystical system that dates back at least as far as the 12th century.
China already insists that only the Government can approve the appointments of Tibet’s two most important monks, the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. The Dalai Lama’s announcement in May 1995 that a search inside Tibet — and with the co- operation of a prominent abbot — had identified the 11th reincarnation of the Panchen Lama, who died in 1989, enraged Beijing. That prompted the Communist authorities to restart the search and to send a senior Politburo member to Lhasa to oversee the final choice. This resulted in top Communist officials presiding over a ceremony at the main Jokhang temple in Lhasa in which names of three boys inscribed on ivory sticks were placed inside a golden urn and a lot was then drawn to find the true reincarnation.
The boy chosen by the Dalai Lama has disappeared. The abbot who worked with the Dalai Lama was jailed and has since vanished. Several sets of rules on seeking out “soul boys” were promulgated in 1995, but were effectively in abeyance and hundreds of living Buddhas are now believed to live inside and outside China.
All Tibetans believe in reincarnation, but only the holiest or most outstanding individuals are believed to be recognisable — a tulku, or apparent body. One Tibetan monk told The Times: “In the past there was no such regulation. The management of living Buddhas is becoming more strict.”
The search for a reincarnation is a mystical process involving clues left by the deceased and visions among leading monks on where to look. The current Dalai Lama, the fourteenth of the line, was identified in 1937 when monks came to his village.
China has long insisted that it must have the final say over the appointment of the most senior lamas. Tibet experts said that the new regulations may also be aimed at limiting the influence of new lamas.


Read more: http://news.iskcon.com/china_bans_reincarnation#ixzz239quY2c7

DharmaSpace

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2012, 02:46:42 PM »
The High Lamas today are being used as pawns for both sides or so they think. But I think these high lamas are probably playing ball right now, but they will eventually show what they are really made of soon. Lamas have the power to leave their bodies to reincarnate into a new body, what government can control or prevent that. I think both sides underestimate the wisdom and the power of the lamas.
 

samayakeeper

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2012, 03:31:01 PM »
That's a good piece of information Jeremyg. A highly attained pratitioner like Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen could have multiple emanations which can function on their own, so it is not impossible that Nagri Rinpoche (assuming he really is an emanation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen ) and Dorje Shugden exist at them same time, and I am sure these two are not the only emanations of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. Samdhong Rinpoche is also said to be an emanation of Dorje Shugden. So let's see what we have here...Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen emanates as Dorje Shugden, Dorje Shugden emanates as Samdhong Rinpoche, and Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen also emanates as Ngari Rinpoche....the possibilities are endless...

Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen and the 5th Dalai Lama were very close back then, both stayed in Drepung Monastery, one in Zimkhang Gangma, the other one in Zimkhang Oma. So it is not surprising that they decided to become brothers in this life!

Everything is just a play, a show performed by the enlightened minds for the unenlightened, so once we realize this, all the more we should get back to our practise and don't waste time indulging in the "play", we should have surpassed that already, leave the "play" to those who still need it...


Yes, Namdrol. It seems like everything is just like a play in a theater, with HHDL and Lord Shugden being the two main actors. The plot thickens as the play continues but soon the story line will become more clear and like most well made play, there will be a happy ending. Like a good Western movie, either the hero rides off into the sunset after saving the whole town or rides into the sunset after saving the whole town with the prettiest gal from the town.  :-* 

Ensapa

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2013, 06:37:20 AM »
That's a good piece of information Jeremyg. A highly attained pratitioner like Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen could have multiple emanations which can function on their own, so it is not impossible that Nagri Rinpoche (assuming he really is an emanation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen ) and Dorje Shugden exist at them same time, and I am sure these two are not the only emanations of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. Samdhong Rinpoche is also said to be an emanation of Dorje Shugden. So let's see what we have here...Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen emanates as Dorje Shugden, Dorje Shugden emanates as Samdhong Rinpoche, and Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen also emanates as Ngari Rinpoche....the possibilities are endless...

Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen and the 5th Dalai Lama were very close back then, both stayed in Drepung Monastery, one in Zimkhang Gangma, the other one in Zimkhang Oma. So it is not surprising that they decided to become brothers in this life!

Everything is just a play, a show performed by the enlightened minds for the unenlightened, so once we realize this, all the more we should get back to our practise and don't waste time indulging in the "play", we should have surpassed that already, leave the "play" to those who still need it...

You're right. Many of these enlightened beings manifest a divine play to spread the Dharma to the masses and to help tame the minds of people who need to be tamed so it is not a surprise if they are actually in a divine play, even though it seems that they are at odds with each other. Else, how would one explain that the Dorje Shugden is still alive and kicking despite the ban? Does the Dalai Lama not have enough power to destroy Dorje Shugden since Dalai Lama is an enlightened being? So these are points that we need to think about.

Rinchen

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2013, 09:07:43 AM »
Indeed, there might be an even bigger message behind this ban towards Dorje Shugden.

Buddhism is about showing care and compassion towards others as well, I believe the main message behind this ban is not to cause any disputes between communities or between people. Also by having a sense of kinship between the H.H Dalai Lama and his youngest brother, Ngari Rinpoche, I believe that he would not want his brother to be harmed. Adding on to that, HHDL would know who are the reincarnations of the lamas, so wouldn’t he know that Ngari Rinpoche is a reincarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen? With the ban of searching of reincarnations of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen, shouldn’t the Dalai Lama not recognize Ngari Rinpoche as a reincarnation of a lama.

Positive Change

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2013, 05:08:35 PM »


The Dalai Lama was one of 16 children, nine of whom survived childhood.

An interesting look into the life of Tenzin Choegyal, the Dalai Lama's Brother through a group interview in Dharamsala

I was with a sangha staying in Dharamsala, India, a Tibetan exile community where the Dalai Lama lives. Our group was split into two guesthouses; the one I stayed at belonged to the local maharaja, and the other belonged to the Dalai Lama’s sister-in-law, Rinchin Kunin, who runs the Tibetan Nuns Project (www.tnp.org), a program that helps exiled Tibetan nuns gain an education equal to that of monks.

One evening, we gathered into the guesthouse’s living room to have a talk with the Dalai Lama’s brother, Tenzin Choegyal. Like the Dalai Lama, he was identified as a reincarnate lama at an early age, but he ditched the post because it didn’t suit him. I was one of the first people in the room, and I plopped down on the floor. Shantum, our teacher and travel guide, walked up to the dais in the bay window and pulled up a seat for our Tibetan visitor, but Tenzin Choegyal mischievously plopped down in the center of the couch next to David and grinned.

I looked up at Tenzin Choegyal from about three feet away and couldn’t help but stare: the Dalai Lama was in disguise! I thought he looked remarkably like the Dalai Lama, except he had short hair instead of a shaved head, and instead of red robes he wore Western pants, an oxford shirt, and a brown jacket with the message “SF San Francisco” on the upper left side. He wore squarish glasses like the Dalai Lama’s. Shantum had said something to the effect that Tenzin Choegyal isn’t very sociable and spends a lot of time in retreat, so I had visualized a crazy, stern, cave-dwelling yogi with long braided hair and traditional Tibetan clothing. In the course of the discussion, we learned that he’s sixty-one years old. He looks a lot younger than his seventy-three-year-old brother and still has totally black hair.

Shantum introduced Tenzin by saying, “This is my teacher. Well, a friend.”

Tenzin said, “A friend who led him astray!” He even sounds a lot like the Dalai Lama! Well, his voice isn’t quite that deep, and his English is more fluent. Members of the sangha asked him questions, and he happily, eagerly, answered.

“Some people think Buddhism is pessimistic, because it talks about suffering. All spiritual traditions talk about suffering. If you mention spiritual traditions, people automatically think of fighting,” he said. He mentioned that religions become political parties, for there is tremendous division instead of uniting, and this is a big challenge we have at this age. It’s a great time to make amends, to transform. He condemned political parties as being about selfishness and imposing one’s view on others, including through money. It’s no wonder I now refuse to even try associating myself to a political party; actually, I think it is very limiting and narrow-minded to do so.

Shantum introduced Paula as the rabbi who took the Three Refuges, and Tenzin said, “Should we throw a party?”

Tenzin Choegyal is so not a fan of blind faith, which is something people have if they don’t examine or analyze things; I think that is connected to fundamentalism.

“May I ask a question?” Richard asked.
“No, you may not,” Tenzin joked.
“Is the empowerment ceremony appropriate for householders, or just monastics?” (The Dalai Lama did the empowerment ceremony for at least a couple days, in addition to teachings.)
“The empowerment ceremony is OK for householders.”

“I’d like to ask you a personal question,” Etiel said.
“No personal questions!” Tenzin joked with a grin.
“Why didn’t you remain a monk?”
“I wasn’t up to the task. It was like wearing the skin of a tiger.”

Tenzin Choegyal told us a lot about himself, about his life, and about how different his views are from his brother’s. While he’s a big fan of nonviolence and dialogue, he’s not so serious a fan of the monastic system, which has a lot of power. While he does believe in reincarnation, he doesn’t have faith in the Rinpoche system of identifying little kids who are supposedly reincarnations of specific lamas. As he pointed out, everyone’s reincarnated, not just lamas.

“Our community still suffers from following rituals and not looking at the creed. It’s not about religion but psychology.” He mentioned that meditation is about attempting to lose negative thoughts. What a challenge, given the conditioning we grow up with!

“I have no authority except my big ego.”

“Identifying with religion gives you pressure to identify yourself,” said a sangha member.

“Labels are very misleading. If you identify with the label, attachment comes,” Tenzin Choegyal said. He talked quite a bit about labels, including money, which is just paper, but we’ve labeled it and given it the meaning of currency, so we accept it. “How do you remove the label? If you skillfully handle it, it’s OK. All names are labels. Even a label is subjective. All depends on how we handle it.” He said, “I think I’m talking like a wise person, but I’m not.” But he wasn’t done with labels yet, saying that “I” and “myself” are just labels; “it’s functional, but it lacks all substantiality.”

“We tend to return to events that are pleasant and block out unpleasant events. It goes to things not being the way we want.” I guess that’s how people are nostalgic; they remember a vacation or even childhood and focus on the good parts.

He said, “I don’t like rituals…I don’t like temples.” At some point in the conversation, he said, “I’m kind of a nut, you know.”

John said, “All of us are in some continuity of mental balance.”


Richard asked about depression and meditation, and Tenzin said to embrace it. “Probably it’s grounded in self-centeredness.” Tenzin experienced depression during the winter (seasonal affective disorder). Depression is physical and mental, interdependently between the physical and spiritual. He went to doctors, was diagnosed as bipolar, which is both depression and mania. A doctor treated him with lithium. “Incidentally, the greatest deposit of lithium is in Tibet.” It helped and people were encouraging. Depression is what drove him to a regular meditation practice, and he’s feeling so much better because of it. Now he’s focused on studying the dharma.

“When people are desperate, thoughts are going everywhere. Then I became interested in Buddhism and it helped. People who become depressed are undisciplined. We are meditating all the time, but not properly.”
“What if you were in that role [Rinpoche], and it was discovered you were bipolar?” someone asked.
“They’d know they made a mistake,” Tenzin replied. “We are all reincarnates from previous lives—identifying reincarnation, it only exists in Tibet, and I don’t know why—this continuity of the practice and to a particular lineage. In history, it became a problem. I personally don’t feel it’s a good idea.”
“Why?”
“Look at me…. There are many loopholes—it is not handled properly, a tulku [one who is identified as a reincarnate lama] becomes a symbol of earthly existence. When I talk like this, people think I’m a traitor.”

“Do you discuss this with your brother?”
“He accepts.”

“There’ve been a lot of books written on mindfulness,” Richard said.
“And they made a lot of money,” Tenzin said with a grin. He encouraged us to read root text. As a Theravada practitioner, I translate that as, in particular, the Pali Canon, which is more or less the words of the Buddha, passed down for centuries. He added, “We should read more deeply and study more deeply.”

Marsha said, “Your wife is a delight. How did you meet her?”

“I don’t think she’s a delight,” Tenzin said. They met in Darjeeling when she was in college, in 1964.

“Are there arranged marriages in Tibet?”

“It was self-arranged.” He added that they first met in a movie theater; the film was George Scott Flimflam Man.

Someone asked him about nonviolence, and Tenzin said, “Nonviolence—most people think it’s passive, but it’s active. You’ve got to have the right understanding.”

He went on to talk about attachment and emptiness, and dependent origination, not to mention impermanence and our failure to recognize things as impermanent, which leads to suffering. “If you have tremendous anger, impermanence means it’ll go away.” Rather relevant to his comments about political parties, Tenzin talked about how attachment means that “lots of arguments take place.”

“What are your views on vegetarianism?” Natalie asked.
“I’m strictly nonvegetarian.” He added, “I think it’s very desirable to be vegetarian. But you must get requirements for your body. Among Tibetans—Younger ones are becoming vegetarian, it’s becoming more common. Tibetans subsist on carbohydrates in monasteries, some have overweight, have diabetes, not enough exercise.” Tenzin said. “Three cheers for vegetarianism!”

“In attachment to the Tibetan land, is there a difference between generations?” Paula asked.
“I have walked on the soil of so-called Tibet. Yes, there is a difference. Sons and daughters have not been there, and it’s all a mind thing.”

“I think human beings are going through an evolution. I don’t think one hundred years ago people talked about this,” someone said.
“Jews did—going back to the land,” Paula said.

“Everyone in the world thinks Tibetans are perfect!” Tenzin said with a laugh. “If Tibet becomes peaceful, where spiritual pursuit is encouraged, I’d go for it. Otherwise, I’m happy elsewhere.” Someone asked him why people think Tibetans are perfect, and he said, “I think it’s because of the novel Lost Horizons by James Hilton.”

He mentioned that he thinks a family person has more compassion than a sangha member; if you’re around difficult people rather than secluded, then you have on-hands experience practicing compassion and all. This has certainly occurred to me often enough, but if you’re in such a painful situation that you’re crippled with depression all the time, you’ve got to get out of that unhealthy situation; I don’t think that meditation alone is enough in abusive situations.


Tenzin is highly critical of the Tibetan monastic system and explained that it’s intellectual understanding rather than practice. They do practice meditation and chanting, but that’s not the same thing as experiencing equanimity when mean people are attacking you. It’s much more challenging to practice when you’re not in a monastery. He said some people join the monastery because they get free food. Basically, there are some things he likes about Tibetan Buddhism (otherwise he wouldn’t be so into studying the dharma now), and other things he doesn’t like about Tibetan Buddhism. He would like practice to be more secular.

“Mishandling freedom is a universal problem,” Tenzin said, reminding me how unfathomably hypocritical war-mongering white male Americans are with their talk of freedom, when obviously they don’t even know what it means. “The most difficult thing to do today is how to handle freedom.”

“I can’t resist…” John said.
“Go ahead. Use your freedom,” Tenzin said.
John is critical of the level of monasticism and the Dalai Lama’s support of this. He called it “confinement of thought of the worst kind.” He said, “Isn’t this monasticism a cancer to the Tibetan cause?”
“I share your view,” Tenzin said. “In monasteries we have trouble with discipline. Are these people genuine?” John mentioned that nobody agreed with him about this, but as it turned out the Dalai Lama’s brother agrees with him.
“Shantum, why did you bring him to this kind of teaching?” Tenzin asked with a grin.

“I really know nothing,” Tenzin said. “My ignorance—I’m an exhibitionist. I like to show off. I’m quite sincere in my feeling. I try to call a spade a spade.”

Tenzin said, “The Tibetan issue—it’s a small speck.” This has occurred to me often enough, like when I’ve donated to the International Campaign to Tibet, even though I don’t think that organization is half as important as the Global Fund for Women. “The Tibetan problem comes from carelessness, not caring, so what does it say?”

“Why did the Dalai Lama mostly read from the Dhammapada?” someone asked, referring to the teachings that we were attending that week. Several people expressed dismay that the Dalai Lama did this.

“I think we should go on strike?” Tenzin said. Someone asked if he has discussed this with his brother, but he said, “Since the teachings, I haven’t seen him. I’m a crowd-shy guy.”
He also said, “I think it’s a genuine grievance here.” For those who don’t speak Tibetan, the lack of commentary is not fair.

“He’s teaching primarily for the Tibetan community,” Shantum said. Some Tibetans are illiterate or barely literate, or otherwise have reasons why they won’t ever get a hold of the Dhammapada; Westerners on the other hand can easily get the book in English at a bookstore or library.

“But that doesn’t help these people,” Tenzin said. “I’m listening at home on the FM. I thought it was odd that he didn’t explain for two days…in his commentary, tremendously powerful.”

Tenzin said, “For people who are interested in spiritual tradition, study it, and study it in groups, with no leader.”

After a little more discussion, Tenzin asked, “Any more questions?” He looked around the room, but we were silent. “I think everyone is shocked.”

Our lively and enthusiastic discussion lasted at least two hours.

The discussion went to plans for having dinner at the other guesthouse. “Can someone give me a ride?” Tenzin asked.
“No, you have to walk.”




At left, the Dalai Lama's family in 1950s India: (From left to right) his mother, Tsering Dolma, Takster Rinpoche, Gyalo Thondup, Lobsang Samten, the Dalai Lama, Jetsun Pema and Tenzin Choegyal.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2013, 09:57:42 PM »
Thanks for sharing that interesting interview with Tenzin Choegyal, Positive. Do you have the url of the actual article?

A couple of things stood out for me:

Quote
While he does believe in reincarnation, he doesn’t have faith in the Rinpoche system of identifying little kids who are supposedly reincarnations of specific lamas....... We are all reincarnates from previous lives—identifying reincarnation, it only exists in Tibet, and I don’t know why—this continuity of the practice and to a particular lineage. In history, it became a problem. I personally don’t feel it’s a good idea.

This is interesting. Does he imply that the identification of the Dalai Lamas is wrong? And the alleged identification of himself as Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen? Why does he question the tulku system which is centuries old and central to Tibetan Buddhism?

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2013, 05:51:45 AM »
There are a lot of things that stand out from this interview:

Quote
Richard asked about depression and meditation, and Tenzin said to embrace it. “Probably it’s grounded in self-centeredness.” Tenzin experienced depression during the winter (seasonal affective disorder). Depression is physical and mental, interdependently between the physical and spiritual. He went to doctors, was diagnosed as bipolar, which is both depression and mania. A doctor treated him with lithium. “Incidentally, the greatest deposit of lithium is in Tibet.” It helped and people were encouraging. Depression is what drove him to a regular meditation practice, and he’s feeling so much better because of it. Now he’s focused on studying the dharma.

“When people are desperate, thoughts are going everywhere. Then I became interested in Buddhism and it helped. People who become depressed are undisciplined. We are meditating all the time, but not properly.”
“What if you were in that role [Rinpoche], and it was discovered you were bipolar?” someone asked.
“They’d know they made a mistake,” Tenzin replied. “We are all reincarnates from previous lives—identifying reincarnation, it only exists in Tibet, and I don’t know why—this continuity of the practice and to a particular lineage. In history, it became a problem. I personally don’t feel it’s a good idea.”
“Why?”
“Look at me…. There are many loopholes—it is not handled properly, a tulku [one who is identified as a reincarnate lama] becomes a symbol of earthly existence. When I talk like this, people think I’m a traitor.”

“Do you discuss this with your brother?”
“He accepts.”

A tulku suffering from depression is interesting and he quotes that this is why he is engaged in Buddhism. Personally, I feel that he is more grounded that many so-called Buddhists who see Buddhism as an escape route for their problems rather than an actual solution to the bigger problem. There are many Buddhists out there who believe that depression is in the mind but it is also caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain and this can be corrected by medications and then the person can remove their self centeredness or reduce it from there. The trend of people using Buddhism to cover/escape from their mental problems should stop and they should use the Dharma to really curtail their ego which will really cure depression.

Quote
“There’ve been a lot of books written on mindfulness,” Richard said.
“And they made a lot of money,” Tenzin said with a grin. He encouraged us to read root text. As a Theravada practitioner, I translate that as, in particular, the Pali Canon, which is more or less the words of the Buddha, passed down for centuries. He added, “We should read more deeply and study more deeply.”


And he is a theravarda! Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen's incarnation practicing and studying the small vehicle! a strong statement indeed. He also advocates investigation rather than just having blind faith. It's kinda interesting how this incarnation manifested and how he will inspire and wake more people up whose head is blurry from all the fascination with tibetan culture.

dsiluvu

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2013, 04:38:50 PM »
Quote
Richard asked about depression and meditation, and Tenzin said to embrace it. “Probably it’s grounded in self-centeredness.” Tenzin experienced depression during the winter (seasonal affective disorder). Depression is physical and mental, interdependently between the physical and spiritual. He went to doctors, was diagnosed as bipolar, which is both depression and mania. A doctor treated him with lithium. “Incidentally, the greatest deposit of lithium is in Tibet.” It helped and people were encouraging. Depression is what drove him to a regular meditation practice, and he’s feeling so much better because of it. Now he’s focused on studying the dharma.

“When people are desperate, thoughts are going everywhere. Then I became interested in Buddhism and it helped. People who become depressed are undisciplined. We are meditating all the time, but not properly.”

You know I do not see his statements in any way negative... in fact I see that he is actually using his own manifested depression to promote proper meditation and Buddhism. How skillful and if he is who he is... meaning an incarnation of a Tulku and what more Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen... then even more appropriate. He may be using his sickness to show us that Buddhism has the right antidote to solve mental psychological issues. He is reaching out to people as an ordinary layman, perhaps this is more approachable approach?

We must realise that highly attained beings or enlightened beings can incarnate in to many many places and forms at one go. Although  Tenzin Choegyal may be an incarnate of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, it does not mean that he is the main incarnation... the mind emanation.

Quote
“What if you were in that role [Rinpoche], and it was discovered you were bipolar?” someone asked.
“They’d know they made a mistake,” Tenzin replied. “We are all reincarnates from previous lives—identifying reincarnation, it only exists in Tibet, and I don’t know why—this continuity of the practice and to a particular lineage. In history, it became a problem. I personally don’t feel it’s a good idea.”
“Why?”
“Look at me…. There are many loopholes—it is not handled properly, a tulku [one who is identified as a reincarnate lama] becomes a symbol of earthly existence. When I talk like this, people think I’m a traitor.”

“Do you discuss this with your brother?”
“He accepts.”

I see him being humble and using the layman approach to reach out to the masses and to also encourage true practice instead of the layman focusing and following teachers blindly just because they have some high status. In a way yes he contradicts the Tulku system which his very own brother His Holiness the Dalai Lama was chosen from. This contradiction shows that he is a practical and logical person. And to me this should be the core foundation of every lay practitioners to practice sincerely instead of wishing to be with or look for teachers who are popular and not just follow who just follow a teacher because they are some "high" lamas. This would be wrong motivation, creating wrong views and the end up no where because they did not practice sincerely or properly.

Quote
“There’ve been a lot of books written on mindfulness,” Richard said.
“And they made a lot of money,” Tenzin said with a grin. He encouraged us to read root text.
As a Theravada practitioner, I translate that as, in particular, the Pali Canon, which is more or less the words of the Buddha, passed down for centuries. He added, “We should read more deeply and study more deeply.”


So again here he promotes Buddhism... his goal from beginning to the end of his interview was that it  all lead to Dharma/Buddhism and making it more accessible to everyone.

Ensapa

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Re: Tulku Drakpa Gyalten is the Dalai Lama's youngest brother?!
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2013, 03:56:32 AM »
Quote
Richard asked about depression and meditation, and Tenzin said to embrace it. “Probably it’s grounded in self-centeredness.” Tenzin experienced depression during the winter (seasonal affective disorder). Depression is physical and mental, interdependently between the physical and spiritual. He went to doctors, was diagnosed as bipolar, which is both depression and mania. A doctor treated him with lithium. “Incidentally, the greatest deposit of lithium is in Tibet.” It helped and people were encouraging. Depression is what drove him to a regular meditation practice, and he’s feeling so much better because of it. Now he’s focused on studying the dharma.

“When people are desperate, thoughts are going everywhere. Then I became interested in Buddhism and it helped. People who become depressed are undisciplined. We are meditating all the time, but not properly.”

You know I do not see his statements in any way negative... in fact I see that he is actually using his own manifested depression to promote proper meditation and Buddhism. How skillful and if he is who he is... meaning an incarnation of a Tulku and what more Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen... then even more appropriate. He may be using his sickness to show us that Buddhism has the right antidote to solve mental psychological issues. He is reaching out to people as an ordinary layman, perhaps this is more approachable approach?

We must realise that highly attained beings or enlightened beings can incarnate in to many many places and forms at one go. Although  Tenzin Choegyal may be an incarnate of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, it does not mean that he is the main incarnation... the mind emanation.

Quote
“What if you were in that role [Rinpoche], and it was discovered you were bipolar?” someone asked.
“They’d know they made a mistake,” Tenzin replied. “We are all reincarnates from previous lives—identifying reincarnation, it only exists in Tibet, and I don’t know why—this continuity of the practice and to a particular lineage. In history, it became a problem. I personally don’t feel it’s a good idea.”
“Why?”
“Look at me…. There are many loopholes—it is not handled properly, a tulku [one who is identified as a reincarnate lama] becomes a symbol of earthly existence. When I talk like this, people think I’m a traitor.”

“Do you discuss this with your brother?”
“He accepts.”

I see him being humble and using the layman approach to reach out to the masses and to also encourage true practice instead of the layman focusing and following teachers blindly just because they have some high status. In a way yes he contradicts the Tulku system which his very own brother His Holiness the Dalai Lama was chosen from. This contradiction shows that he is a practical and logical person. And to me this should be the core foundation of every lay practitioners to practice sincerely instead of wishing to be with or look for teachers who are popular and not just follow who just follow a teacher because they are some "high" lamas. This would be wrong motivation, creating wrong views and the end up no where because they did not practice sincerely or properly.

Quote
“There’ve been a lot of books written on mindfulness,” Richard said.
“And they made a lot of money,” Tenzin said with a grin. He encouraged us to read root text.
As a Theravada practitioner, I translate that as, in particular, the Pali Canon, which is more or less the words of the Buddha, passed down for centuries. He added, “We should read more deeply and study more deeply.”


So again here he promotes Buddhism... his goal from beginning to the end of his interview was that it  all lead to Dharma/Buddhism and making it more accessible to everyone.

He's bringing Buddhism in a way from the eyes of a skeptic or an atheist. It is a very interesting and refreshing take on Buddhism that he has, especially on the fact that he also relies on modern medicine to treat his depression in addition to meditation and other more holistic approaches. His reliance on the Pali Canon however comes as quite an interesting twist to me because it is the barebones of the Buddhist scriptures and it contains only the most basic sutras that the Buddha has taught for self liberation as opposed to the Kangyur. He is right when he says that the people should study the Pali Canon because then we would be able to learn about self liberation, then we can develop compassion from there as we realize that everyone around us also wishes for happiness and liberation.