Author Topic: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions  (Read 5661 times)

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« on: April 24, 2014, 06:23:33 AM »
CTA is utterly confused of who is spirit and who is an enlightened being.  Do you know that the Central Tibetan Administration consults spirit instead of enlightened beings for state decision making?  Isn't this weird and unbelieveable?  Isn't it spirit worshipping? 


Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile evading questions


icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 02:11:21 AM »
I would like to share with you another video of the Dalai Lama consulting the spirit for political advice:

Dalai Lama Relies on Spirits for Political Advice Small | Large


Tenzin K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 835
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 05:01:03 AM »
Nechung was a powerful spirit called Pehar and was subdued by Padmasambhava and oath bound to protect the Dharma. He was then installed as the Dharma Protector of Samye Monastery, Ti bet first monastic institution. Later the 5th Dalai Lama installed Nechung Pehar as the chief Dharma Protector of the State. With this Nechung oracle also became the State Oracle who take trance of the subdued spirit and give prophecies and advice to the state minister, the Dalai Lama and other devotees.
Obviously CTA is propitiating the non-enlightened protector!

Lord Shugden has a lineage history way back to Manjushri and it’s so authentic but the Tibet government would rather choose to believe the Buddha as a spirit and the subdued spirit as the right one! How ridiculous it is and I can understand how the Tibetan government can lose their country over!

Galen

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 420
    • Email
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2014, 07:26:00 AM »
That is why the Tibetans are reluctant to answer questions and keep pushing to others. They also do not believe in the oracle. It also shows that the Tibetans do not stand up for their own rights. I believe a lot of people are practicing DS behind closed doors and afraid to go against the government. So they just let it be and rather see other people suffer.

I do agree that Tibetans are weird. Worshiping a spirit is ok as compared to an enlightened Buddha, which is banned. No logic. Thankfully the articles and facts presented in this website has managed to clarify a lot of the uncertainties of the ban. Yet, a lot of Tibetans still follow blindly.

dondrup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2014, 09:16:46 AM »
This is what baffles us. Why is it better to rely on Nechung and not Dorje Shugden who IS a fully enlightened Buddha? Shouldn't you rely on a fully enlightened Dharma Protector than an unenlightened Dharma Protector? 

Surely the highest authority in the Tibetan Exile community can do better than relying on a spirit for advice.  You are running the government for the people.  How can you make important state decisions based on a spirit? The decisions made won't be in the best interest of the people as the advice given is not completely reliable.

lotus1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2014, 02:50:17 AM »
Agreed with TenzinK.
Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being. Dorje Shugden, via the Panglung Oracle, advised, helped and guided H.H. the Dalai Lama, His teachers, family and followers to escape from Tibet is in 1959. For more information, please click to this link: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/uncovered-truth-evidence-of-how-dorje-shugden-was-actually-behind-the-dalai-lamas-escape-out-of-tibet-to-india-in-1959/

Besides, there is a video that the previous incarnation of HH Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang said that Dorje Shugden is not a spirit when he gave the Dorje Shugden initiation. HH Kyabe Zong Rinpoche is reincarnated now and this shows that Dorje Shugden is not a spirits as per what the rumors. Check it out here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/videos/must-watch/must-watch-advice-from-hh-kyabje-zong-dorje-chang-on-dorje-shugden-part-1/




Nechung was a powerful spirit called Pehar and was subdued by Padmasambhava and oath bound to protect the Dharma. He was then installed as the Dharma Protector of Samye Monastery, Ti bet first monastic institution. Later the 5th Dalai Lama installed Nechung Pehar as the chief Dharma Protector of the State. With this Nechung oracle also became the State Oracle who take trance of the subdued spirit and give prophecies and advice to the state minister, the Dalai Lama and other devotees.
Obviously CTA is propitiating the non-enlightened protector!

Lord Shugden has a lineage history way back to Manjushri and it’s so authentic but the Tibet government would rather choose to believe the Buddha as a spirit and the subdued spirit as the right one! How ridiculous it is and I can understand how the Tibetan government can lose their country over!

Freyr Aesiragnorak

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2014, 09:59:08 AM »
It is very strange indeed that the CTA would be consulting spirits for state decisions rather than known enlightened protectors who are able to take trance of oracles and give advice. It shows that there is something wrong happening. While i do not condemn the practice, as unenlightened spirits can help practitioners if they have been oath bound by an enlightened/realised master, there is no need to do so if one can communicate with an enlightened being, through the medium of an oracle.

However, I am not of the opinion that the Nechung spirit Pehar is unenlightened after reading the text Music Delighting an Ocean of Dharma Protectors, in which Trijang Rinpoche himself states that Nechung is an enlightened being.

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 11:16:10 PM »
Watch this interesting video of spirit consultation by the Tibetan Government in Exile:

The Dalai Lama's Spirit Worship and its Effect on Tibetan Society Small | Large


pgdharma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 04:36:11 AM »
It is so weird that till now the CTA are so blinded by their ignorance and still refused to accept that Dorje Shugden is not a spirit but an enlightened being.  If spirit worshipping is bad, why are they propitiating to Nechung who is an oath bound spirit.? Wouldn't it be better to rely on Dorje Shugden who is fully an enlightened being?

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 09:01:46 AM »
Our favourite line of logic that reveals how ridiculous the Shugden ban is. Isn't the danger of relying on Nechung the same as relying on Dorje Shugden considering the fact that Dorje Shugden is regarded as a spirit by the Dalai Lama? This is just ridiculous!

If we were to follow the line of reasoning of the Shugden ban, Nechung should be banned as well as his continued propitiation harms the Dalai Lama's health and Tibetan cause. Since that is the case, something must be done to stop Nechung propitiation. The CTA is seeking answers directly from a being that really harms the Tibetan cause. There's even a closer connection as CTA does not consult Dorje Shugden oracles for state matters.

Aurore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2014, 04:14:48 PM »
We know His Holiness has something up his sleeve. He knows exactly what he is doing.

My BIG question mark is why do people go along with the Dalai Lama's decisions on relying on Nechung spirit while condemning Dorje Shugden "spirit" just because the Dalai Lama said so? Yes, there is good spirits and bad spirits if comes to  an argument point. Then comes another big question mark. Has Dorje Shugden, the evil spirit displayed any form of evil to mankind? Looking back at history, Dorje Shugden saved HHDL during the invasion of Tibet, while Nechung gave wrong advice which nearly caused HHDL's life. HHDL claims that propitiating Dorje Shugden will shorten his life. HHDL is healthy and he is almost 80! Claims are just claims until it is proven.

rossoneri

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • Email
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2014, 09:04:34 AM »
We know His Holiness has something up his sleeve. He knows exactly what he is doing.

My BIG question mark is why do people go along with the Dalai Lama's decisions on relying on Nechung spirit while condemning Dorje Shugden "spirit" just because the Dalai Lama said so? Yes, there is good spirits and bad spirits if comes to  an argument point. Then comes another big question mark. Has Dorje Shugden, the evil spirit displayed any form of evil to mankind? Looking back at history, Dorje Shugden saved HHDL during the invasion of Tibet, while Nechung gave wrong advice which nearly caused HHDL's life. HHDL claims that propitiating Dorje Shugden will shorten his life. HHDL is healthy and he is almost 80! Claims are just claims until it is proven.

Agreed with you Aurore, moreover it is Nechung who asked Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen to promised and rise as A protector when the time is right which eventually Duldzin agreed and two life time later it was Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was asked by Nechung again if he is ready to rise as a Dharma Protector especially for Lama Tsongkhapa teachings which is the founder of the Gelug.

Gabby Potter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2015, 10:35:28 PM »
I find this pretty ironic. They are allowed to worship an unenlightened being but the Tibetans are not allowed to practise Dorje Shugden who's already a Buddha??? Weird huh? ???

prodorjeshugden

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • Email
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 02:16:21 PM »
I am not surprised that they are consulting spirits.
The Tibetan government is really blinded now, yet they refuse to accept that they are listening to spirits who are not sure of anything. That is really going to contribute to the future of Tibet.
It is really bad to worship a spirit, and there are really bad effects if you do worship one.
Why don't they just listen to someone enlightened like Setrab or better still Dorje Shugden.
And they think that DS is a spirit just because of some false reasons.
If DS was a spirit how did he know that the Dalai Lama had to flee Tibet??
I really do hope that the ban would be lifted soon.

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: CTA Consults Spirit For State Decisions
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2015, 06:49:36 AM »
CTA consulting Nechung, a spirit , for advice on state matters is bad enough. What is worse is that Nechung has been giving wrong and sometimes potentially fatally wrong advice, as when he advised HH Dalai Lama not to leave Tibet, when the Chinese were already at the door waiting to invade and take over Tibet!

On the other hand, when we examine the reasons why Dalai Lama had imposed the ban on Shugden practice, we find them rather flimsy. One reason is that propriating the "spirit" Dorje Shugden would shorten his life, and the other is that Shugden practice would threaten the cause of Tibet's Independence. The first reason has already been disproved. Shugden practice by Shugden followers have not shortened His life. He has turned 80 and is still well and fit.

 The second reason is hard to swallow. How can a spirit threaten Tibet's Independence? Rather shouldn't it be a political task for Tibet's  Government -in-exile to undertake to gain Tibet's Independence?  They ought to have made some significant progress in all this time, if they had done all the negotiations and talks with China. What about all the efforts put in to gain the support of the West for the Independence of Tibet? Hasn't Obama hammered the nail into the prospects of gaining Independence for Tibet? He has outrightly declared that Tibet cannot be an independent State! Indeed why did CTA waste so much time going after their own Tibetans and creating a schism within the Tibetan community, with enforcing th e ban on Shugden - time which should have been spent in working on secung Tibet's Independence.

Yet, within the pages of Trijang Rinpoche's " Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors",we read about rather  'strange things' which are called "Divine Play". Hence, we cannot insist that Nechung is a spirit after all. I still can't fathom why on that critical occasion, Dalai Lama did not listen to Nechung , who had asked him to stay in Tibet. Instead, he had followed the 'spirit', Dorje Shugden's advice and left Tibet to safety in India.