Sakya Trizin AGAINST Dorje Shugden?

[Namdrol]

This news was published in Voice of Tibet, however I question the validity of it. Of all monasteries of the Sakya lineage in the world, why would the Sakya Trizin write to this relatively remote and unknown monastery in Tibet asking them to give up Dorje Shugden? But if the news is true, then maybe this monastery is especially well-known for its Dorje Shugden practice therefore the Sakya Trizin specifically targeted it?

And why would Sakya Trizin out of the blue decided to come down harsh on Dorje Shugden practitioners when everything seemed to quiet down last year?


source: http://www.vot.org/?p=4516

Tibetans vowed not to worship Dorje Shugden

[Voice of Tibet, November 28, 2011] Monks and lay people in Tibet's Kham Kyegudo area recently threw Dorje Shugden's statues and books in to the river and vowed not to practice Dorje Shugden anymore.

A monk from India's Sera monastery told the reporter that Gesang Monastery in Tibet's Kyegudo area recently received two letters written by Sakya Trizin personally, the letter listed out in detail high lamas of the Sakya sect who oppose Dorje Shugden, and urge the monks and people of Gesang Monastery to stop propitiating to Dorje Shugden.

In Sakya Trizin's second letter to them, he demanded the monastery to decide immediately and to announce publicly the list of monks who would stop propitiating to Dorje Shugden, so Gesang Monastery held an emergency meeting and asked people to gather all Dorje Shugden items and throw all Dorje Shugden statues, images, books into the river, and vowed not to practice Dorje Shugden anymore.

Gesang Monastery was built in 1260, it used to have over a thousand monks, now it has around 200 monks.

[see pic for the original news in Chinese]

[WisdomBeing]

I really hope that this report is not true. If the monks just junked all their Dorje Shugden statues and prayers, I would have loved to have been there to collect them all! Imagine how powerfully blessed these holy items would have been – the Sangha who have kept their vows have been using these Dorje Shugden statues as the focus of their meditations, and the books with holy prayers to Dorje Shugden to recite from. I would give my eyeteeth for just one of them. And now they have been discarded into the river! What a waste. However, perhaps the river water that runs over these holy items would be blessed and the river will run down its course, serving communities and animals along its way, thus inadvertently bringing the blessings of Dorje Shugden as well.

It’s strange that Sakya Trizin is so anti-Shugden, when Shugden was initially practised in the Sakya tradition – even before Shugden came to the Gelugpa tradition. One of Dorje Shugden's previous incarnations is even Sakya Pandita himself! As such, i think that the Sakyas and Dorje Shugden have an inextricable link. Therefore, the current Sakya Trizin's purported animosity towards Dorje Shugden is contradictory.

For anyone who would like to read more about the Sakyas and Dorje Shugden, do read this thread, “Proof that the Sakyas Used to Solicit Dorje Shugden As A Buddha!”
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=636.msg19258#msg19258

[yontenjamyang]

This action even if true brings to mind a number of interesting questions.

1) Of all Sakya monasteries, why this small one? Does it means that the Sakya Trizin can't convince the others? Or is he "testing water"so to say?
2) What is his motivation? Is he pressured by the CTA? Why not just decree that ALL Sakya monasteries do the same.  Is this Gesang Monasteries just a sacrificial lamp?
3) The ban has been since 1996 ie 15years to this letter. Why wait 15 years?

The answers to these questions reveal the true picture behind the scene. Politics? Spirituality? Big picture?

[vajralight]

Sakya Trizin has been against Dorje Shugden for many years and has spoken openly about this.

His Eminence Sakya Gongma Rinpoche on Dholgyal (Shugden)	Small | Large

just check the date,

Vajra

PS I don't have the translation available

[DharmaSpace]

The article below shows that the Sakyas were the first to give a home to Dorje Shugden when he first arose

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10184

Without the Sakyas preserving the Dorje Shugden practices then we might not have had the chance to practise, so it is through the kindness of the Sakyas that we are able to practice now.  The attached picture is the form of Dorje Shugden as practised by the Sakyas. Yes it is indeed very strange for Sakya Trizin to be saying this right now. There is much evidence that Dorje Shugden was practiced by all four sects of Tibetan Buddhism before the invasion of Tibet, the Nyingmas, Drukpa Kagyu were amongst those practicing and the practice was widespread in those days.

[Ensapa]

Sakya Trinzin has been quite against Dorje Shugden since the start of the ban, and he has been continuously downplaying the role of DS in his tradition, saying that it is merely done to appease Dorje Shugden and that Dorje Shugden is merely an unenlightened spirit who is bound to Mahakala. This is pretty funny because prior to that he was completely silent about Dorje Shugden, as if he never existed in the first place. There is much proof that the Sakyas practiced Dorje Shugden long before the ban started, but these were denied systematically by the Sakyas.

There are also much proof that the Sakyas altered their historical texts to remove any significant references to Dorje Shugden, as many scholars who examine their historical documents and texts find his role severely downplayed compared to the references to the Sakyas found on this site:

It has been correctly pointed out many times that Sakya, specifically the Khon family, played a role in the early development of the Shugden cult. The worldly spirit (in Tibetan 'gyalpo' meaning king, a type of ghost) having one face and two hands mounted on a black horse was grouped with the senior worldly protectors of the town of Sakya namely Tsi'u Marpo and Dorje Setrap (these two are Nyingma in origin and not exclusive to Sakya). This trio is called the 'Gyalpo Sum' - the Three King Spirits. In the town of Sakya there is a small temple called the Mug chung Gong khang where the offering service of Shugden was carried out by a monk appointee. This small structure was just north of the Zhi tog Pho drang (Sakya Government Building).

Sakya Trizin Sachen Ngawang Kunga Lodro (1729-1790?) composed an new offering service for Shugden based on the 'torma throwing' ritual of the 'Three Kings.' Later, Sakya Trizin Trakshu Thinley Rinchen (1871-1936) in his personal diaries written on scraps of paper starting from the age of 8 years records all his thoughts, dreams and miscellaneous experiences. After his passing these were collected and added to his biography. In these diaries, amongst many other topics, he muses over the nature of Shugden and the relationship between Shugden, his father (S.T. Kunga Nyingpo) and his grand-father (S.T. Tashi Rinchen) of whom Trakshu Thinley Rinchen was the incarnation. These are regarded as an interesting curiosity within the Drolma Podrang of the Khon family as well as being their personal family business.

It has of course been pointed out by others as well as myself that H.H. Sakya Trizin (of the Drolma Podrang) does not himself practice Shugden - this based on the instructions of his root guru, nor does his sister follow the worldly protector practice. I personally have also spent a great deal of time with the two Gongma Lamas of the Phuntsok Podrang and although Mahakala, Magzorma (the Podrang's family protector), Tsi'u Mara and even the Sakya Barmo witches were discussed many times, I cannot recall one conversation about Shugden. All of this however was prior to 1984 before the Dalai Lama began to speak out about the worldly protector. At the Sakya Monastery in Seattle, Wash., Dagchen Rinpoche has not included any worldy protectors in the regular Mahakala & Protector Pujas, subsequently the 'Three Kings' are absent.

The personal anecdote offered to ARBT relating to Sakya Dagchen Rinpoche and Shugden was very nice and is definitely worth following up, but it is just an anecdote. An anecdote is like one half of a wheel. It just doesn't get you very far.

As for the notion of a 'secret line' of Shugden practice/practitioners within Sakya, this is absurd. Tibetan culture, Buddhist and otherwise, has many secrets and many that should have been kept secret but this half-baked idea enters the realm of fantasy and science fiction.

http://vajrasana.org/jeff01.htm

What I find interesting in this writeup is, not just this one but a few others who did 'research' in the historical documents of the Sakyas and found the role of Dorje Shugden being downplayed unlike the link that DharmaSpace had given earlier, which is a clear indication that they have been altered.

Now, let's go back to the main reason of the ban that the Dalai Lama had gave: that Shugden is not enlightened and should not be seen as such, which is why he instituted the ban. The Sakyas never saw him as enlightened nor practiced him as an enlightened protector so why stop now? Why only block his practice in the Sakya tradition 30 years after the Dalai Lama openly banned it? Is it due to political compliance? Or they do not wish to be associated with a primarily Gelug protector anymore?

[thor]

One of the so-called reasons that the Dalai Lama banned the practice of Dorje Shugden is because it is a sectarian practice, and the Dalai Lama as the then spiritual and political leader of Tibet, wanted to stamp out sectarianism and unify the Tibetans.

But Gesang monastery is from the Sakya lineage and being practiced by Sakya monks and practitioners. This not only proves that Dorje Shugden, apart from first being enthroned as a Dharma Protector by the Sakya leader of his time, has a lineage within the Sakya tradition, but it also proves that his practice is NOT sectarian. Otherwise why would the Sakyas propitiate him? Why would his lineage be passed down by Sakya master to student for hundreds of years? Where is the sectarianism in that?

And why would Sakya Trizin, with all due respect, renege on the actions of his predecessors and ban the practice of a protector that his forbears authorised? This is so similar to the Dalai Lama going against the decision of his previous reincarnations!

I also wonder why Sakya Trizin is only now sending a letter to this monastery, after so many years of the ban being active. Did he only just find out? If so, was the monastery keeping mum about their practice of Dorje Shugden? Surely they are aware of the ban. So if they continued practising, is it because they found his practice beneficial and didnt believe what the Dalai Lama has said? Will they continue to practice is secret, just like hundreds of Gelugpa monks?

Questions to mull upon.

[Ensapa]

What is interesting is that the Sakya Trinzin's root guru is also against Dorje Shugden:

H.H. Sakya Trizin, Head of the Sakya Tradition:
“In the beginning the Sakya throne holder Sakya Sönam Rinchen bound Shugden to protect Dharma. However, neither Shudgen nor other worldly spirits were depended upon during prayer meeting at Sakya. The statue of Shugden was in some shrine rooms but in the lowest category in the pantheon. No Sakya follower has ever taken life pledging empowerment through the medium of Shugden… Later Shugden worship decreased strongly among Sakyas due to the efforts of three leading Sakya lineage lamas” [including the root Guru of Sakya Trizin who was] extremely unhappy with Shugden practice and advised on the demerits of Shugden practice. One of his disciples, Ngawang Yönten Gyatso, took strong actions to remove Shugden statues from the Sakya monasteries and to destroy them. Khyentse Dorje Chang Chökyi Lodrö was also very unhappy with Shugden practice, although he didn’t destroy statues, he performed rituals to banish Shugden. Since these three leading Sakya Lamas were against Shugden, this practice declined greatly among Sakya followers.”

However, the odd thing here is that, why is the name of the root guru not given? Secondly is why is there no reason or no basis at all is given on why are they unhappy about Dorje Shugden? Why is there a huge discrepancy between what has been documented about Sakya history found here and also what has been quoted? There is no reason given and there was nothing to support their decisions…because they simply disliked Dorje Shugden? This is odd. And how can a Buddha be banished away from a monastery or area?

Also, there is much evidence that the older sakya throne holders were a reincarnation of Dorje Shugden himself : http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/a-sakya-tale-part-two-grandpa-shugden/ What I find rather amusing and odd is, why are the Sakyapas denying and acting as if it did not exist when it is everywhere, and they even removed references of it from their own collection of texts? Notice that the refutation conveniently missed out the huge chunk of information found in the given link?

Why are this information coming out only after the ban? would it be made known if the ban did not take place? Everything will always have their detractors and there will always be people who agree and people who don't agree to something, even the Buddha had Devadatta, so to say that we should not practice Dorje Shugden because lama so and so said so, and no reason is given, it is quite…hard to accept.

But well, we have no right to judge another tradition, but we can always dissect and analyze their decisions and actions.

[Big Uncle]

So, all the High Lamas who are on the Pro-Dalai Lama camp are against Dorje Shugden as well. So, Sakya Trizin is in it as well. All evidence points to centuries of practice within the Sakya tradition but let's get the fact straight. Dorje Shugden practice within the Gelug tradition was not a borrow over from the Sakya tradition. The fact that Sakyas worshiped Dorje Shugden before the Gelugs doesn't make Dorje Shugden a borrow over practice.

The lineage of Dorje Shugden in the Gaden tradition arose through a vision by Tagpu Pemavajra in Tushita. He received the practice directly from under the throne of Lama Tsongkhapa and he taught this practice to his heart disciple, Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche. Hence, the lineage arose as a vision and that could very well be when Dorje Shugden arose with his mount as a snow lion. So what's my point? Dorje Shugden practice does not require Sakya Trizin to acknowledge as an authentic practice. What's more important is to look at the qualification of the Lamas who propagate it within our own tradition.

[DSFriend]

The Sakyapa practiced Dorje Shugden even before the Gelugpas. And just as WisdomBeing pointed out, one of Dorje Shugden's previous incarnations is a Sakya Pandita.

So why would Sakya now be against Dorje Shugden? Did one of the Sakya lineage holder went wrong somewhere and now the successor realised it was wrong? Similar to Dalai Lama's previous incarnation having practiced Dorje SHugden and now the 14th HHDL says his Guru is wrong and he now realised the practice is wrong? Hmm.... there seems to be some parallel similarities!

To me, Sakya lineage holders are enlightened. HHDL is enlightened. If they can make MISTAKES in determining which deity is good and which is bad, then what hope do we have. How will we know what we are practicing now is good or bad? So does it give us the license to break our vows now that this current Guru says it's wrong? If this Guru says it's wrong, when will it end? What if another incarnation or lineage holder comes along and says it's right to practice?!

Some may accuse a few people in this forum who stubbornly promotes Dorje Shugden despite the fact that HHDL has said to stop. Well, I don't see the logic in giving up. As simple as that.

[dondrup]

It is sad to know Dorje Shugden(DS) practice was banned at Gesang Monastery when DS was practised for hundreds of years at the Monastery!  Imagine how this would affect the faith of the practitioners?  It is also sad to observe how easy Sakya practitioners would just ‘dump’ their DS practice just because of HH Sakya Trizin’s instruction?
 
This ban makes a joke out of the DS practice.  For hundreds of years, it was fine to propitiate DS.  And then suddenly it is not alright to propitiate DS.  If it is not alright to propitiate DS, then why in the first place the Sakya practitioners were taught the DS practice?  What is the reason for banning DS? Why it only affected Gesang Monastery?

Without disrespect to HH Sakya Trizin, can His Holiness give valid reasons as to why DS cannot be propitiated by Sakya practitioners?

This situation is similar to the ban by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama (HHDL) on DS for Gelugpas.  Till this day, HHDL has not given any valid explanations on why DS should be banned!

[dsiluvu]

It’s strange that Sakya Trizin is so anti-Shugden, when Shugden was initially practised in the Sakya tradition – even before Shugden came to the Gelugpa tradition. One of Dorje Shugden's previous incarnations is even Sakya Pandita himself! As such, i think that the Sakyas and Dorje Shugden have an inextricable link. Therefore, the current Sakya Trizin's purported animosity towards Dorje Shugden is contradictory.

Sakya Trizin bans Dorje Shugden is equal to saying he bans Sakya Pandita or thinks that Sakya Pandita is wrong. So might as well say their lineage is "false" or "bad" and then what?

On HH Sakya Trizin's website http://www.hhthesakyatrizin.org/tradition_founder4.html   it says...

Sakya Pandita: The Great Sage of Tibet

Sakya Pandita, the fourth of the five founders of the Sakya Order, was born in the year of the Iron Female Pig (1182) in Sakya , Tibet . He was the nephew of Jetsun Drakpa Gyaltsen, who was the third of the five founders of the Sakya Order. Sakya Pandita became one of the greatest scholars and meditators to take birth in Tibet . Sakya Pandita was the real Vajradhara.

Also creating such a ban only goes to show that Dorje Shugden is definitely not a sectarian deity and if Sakya Trizin is banning it at Gesang Monastery so forcefully means DS is obviously still being practised strongly by the Sakyapas up till today!

[Ensapa]

personally, I find this very odd as the Sakyas have been quietly practicing Dorje Shugden from the start as evidence from many websites out there suggests, complete with old liturgies and old thangkas of Dorje Shugden within the Sakya sect, and all of a sudden, Sakya Trinzin, whose father is considered as an emanation of Dorje Shugden himself suddenly ejects Dorje Shugden from the Sakya sect and even destroyed evidence of his presence in Sakya a bit weird. Is it pressure from CTA or from the Dalai Lama?

either way, i feel sad to see such an old an strong tradition to crumble at its feet in order to make someone happy.