How the TGIE treat their high lamas

[beggar]

I'd like to draw your attention to this in the "Illusory Play", Trijang Rinpoche's biography (page 87):

At Ratreng Monastery, because the Labrang attendants killed seventeen of the Four Corner Army Camp soldiers that had been sent to lock down the labrang, the government sent a very large force with the Commander in Chief Kälzang Tsultrim and Northern Commander Zhakaba Losäl Döndrub. Their shelling of the Ratreng monastic seat and temple was very effective. The Ratreng Labrang belongings, which rivaled the treasury of Tzambhala , were seized and carried off by the soldiers, and, at the wishes of the government, the labrang was completely annihilated.

This shows clearly how the Tibetan Government treat their own high Lamas. If this was happening to Ratreng Rinpoche in the 20th Century, you can imagine how it must definitely have happened 350 years ago during the time of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, when his name and incarnation status was just totally obliterated from history!

Retreng Rinpoche was imprisoned, very badly treated and had his eyes gouged out. The Tibetan government didn’t just close his ladrang but shelled it completely.

Trijang Rinpoche himself acknowledges that Retreng Rinpoche was very highly attained. And yet, the government can even destroy such a high lama for political reasons.

This may have happened at different times, but it puts the ban on Dorje Shugden in a clear light - it shows how ridiculous (even primitive) the ban on Dorje Shugden is because it shows clearly what a country's government (who pride themselves on being spiritual) can do to its own high Lamas.

[Heartspoon]

 Do you really think that a highly realized being like HH the 14th Dalai Lama would adopt a "ridiculous (even primitive)
 ban on Dorje Shugden ?

[Heartspoon]

I like to remember the following words:

If you say "I have faith" and you put down the one
who arises from the transcendental wisdom vajra
Then really you have no clear idea of who he is
You have no idea of the workings of Buddha,
Bodhisattvas and their different forms.

[Lineageholder]

Do you really think that a highly realized being like HH the 14th Dalai Lama would adopt a "ridiculous (even primitive)
 ban on Dorje Shugden ?

That rather depends on if he's highly realized or not.

[Heartspoon]

Do you really think that a highly realized being like HH the 14th Dalai Lama would adopt a "ridiculous (even primitive)
 ban on Dorje Shugden ?

That rather depends on if he's highly realized or not.

Yes, only reasoning distinguishes what is or is not true.
And the same applies for the ban.

[thaimonk]

Yes highly realized beings will do all types of actions and be seen as unrealized to those who are not realized.

Read the biographies of Ghantapa for example.

[thaimonk]

I'd like to draw your attention to this in the "Illusory Play", Trijang Rinpoche's biography (page 87):

At Ratreng Monastery, because the Labrang attendants killed seventeen of the Four Corner Army Camp soldiers that had been sent to lock down the labrang, the government sent a very large force with the Commander in Chief Kälzang Tsultrim and Northern Commander Zhakaba Losäl Döndrub. Their shelling of the Ratreng monastic seat and temple was very effective. The Ratreng Labrang belongings, which rivaled the treasury of Tzambhala , were seized and carried off by the soldiers, and, at the wishes of the government, the labrang was completely annihilated.

This shows clearly how the Tibetan Government treat their own high Lamas. If this was happening to Ratreng Rinpoche in the 20th Century, you can imagine how it must definitely have happened 350 years ago during the time of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, when his name and incarnation status was just totally obliterated from history!

Retreng Rinpoche was imprisoned, very badly treated and had his eyes gouged out. The Tibetan government didn’t just close his ladrang but shelled it completely.

Trijang Rinpoche himself acknowledges that Retreng Rinpoche was very highly attained. And yet, the government can even destroy such a high lama for political reasons.

This may have happened at different times, but it puts the ban on Dorje Shugden in a clear light - it shows how ridiculous (even primitive) the ban on Dorje Shugden is because it shows clearly what a country's government (who pride themselves on being spiritual) can do to its own high Lamas.

Thanks for taking the time to study Trijang Rinpoche's autobio and sharing this with us. Reading this reminds me to read up more on Trijang Rinpoche's bio. I can learn and think more. Trijang Rinpoche can never be wrong.

[Heartspoon]

Yes highly realized beings will do all types of actions and be seen as unrealized to those who are not realized.

Read the biographies of Ghantapa for example.

It's like that.

[DharmaDefender]

I'd like to draw your attention to this in the "Illusory Play", Trijang Rinpoche's biography (page 87):

At Ratreng Monastery, because the Labrang attendants killed seventeen of the Four Corner Army Camp soldiers that had been sent to lock down the labrang, the government sent a very large force with the Commander in Chief Kälzang Tsultrim and Northern Commander Zhakaba Losäl Döndrub. Their shelling of the Ratreng monastic seat and temple was very effective. The Ratreng Labrang belongings, which rivaled the treasury of Tzambhala , were seized and carried off by the soldiers, and, at the wishes of the government, the labrang was completely annihilated.

This shows clearly how the Tibetan Government treat their own high Lamas. If this was happening to Ratreng Rinpoche in the 20th Century, you can imagine how it must definitely have happened 350 years ago during the time of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, when his name and incarnation status was just totally obliterated from history!

Retreng Rinpoche was imprisoned, very badly treated and had his eyes gouged out. The Tibetan government didn’t just close his ladrang but shelled it completely.

Trijang Rinpoche himself acknowledges that Retreng Rinpoche was very highly attained. And yet, the government can even destroy such a high lama for political reasons.

This may have happened at different times, but it puts the ban on Dorje Shugden in a clear light - it shows how ridiculous (even primitive) the ban on Dorje Shugden is because it shows clearly what a country's government (who pride themselves on being spiritual) can do to its own high Lamas.

A government is made up of people - just because they join the government doesn't mean their greed and selfishness is removed, even if they are supposed to be spiritual.

I don't think we should just focus on that part of the text. Right after Trijang Rinpoche writes about how the government treats lamas, he also talks about the lessons he learnt from it, or the effect it had on him spiritually. He didn't make any judgements about the characters or qualities of the people involved, so perhaps we should refrain from the same. Is it spiritual to keep finding / pointing out duality?

Thinking about this unstable nature of samsaric happiness and sorrow, endlessly and constantly fluxating as fast as lightning, made me want to forcefully renounce the essenceless things of this life and immediately go into the mountains like an injured deer, to soak myself in the nectar of the three isolations.

[triesa]

Yes highly realized beings will do all types of actions and be seen as unrealized to those who are not realized.

Read the biographies of Ghantapa for example.

I agree to this totally.

I am not a realized being so I cannot judge the actions of a realized being. My judgement would only be based on my very limited reasoning and experiences.

[DSFriend]

Do you really think that a highly realized being like HH the 14th Dalai Lama would adopt a "ridiculous (even primitive)
 ban on Dorje Shugden ?

That rather depends on if he's highly realized or not.

Yes, only reasoning distinguishes what is or is not true.
And the same applies for the ban.

How often have our reasoning, due to disillusioned minds misled us. So then shld we rather not exercise our reasoning capabilities? Thank goodness with Dharma, we have the teachings to guide us.. how we choose to act on the negativities we derive from our reasoning shows what we chose to practice.

Are we going to choose to only focus on the negativities that we see or turn our energy to do something positive about it. The ban has been going on for so long,...and how many people have actually done something to clear the name of the Protector? This website, this forum and the many contributors are focusing on what is needed,..which is to promote the Protector. This, I am very grateful for....

[beggar]

Thinking about this unstable nature of samsaric happiness and sorrow, endlessly and constantly fluxating as fast as lightning, made me want to forcefully renounce the essenceless things of this life and immediately go into the mountains like an injured deer, to soak myself in the nectar of the three isolations.

real good stuff. Thanks for pointing that out.

Further on also, on page 88, Trijang Rinpoche says this:

Because of the situation just described, many ordinary beings on the side of both the Regent Rinpoche and Ratreng Rinpoche blasphemed and denied one of these lamas. However, if you consider it in terms of being a display for the sake of trainees and the powerful karma being dealt with, there is no certainty that those ordinary beings actually created the karma of forsaking the guru. Similar events occurred in the lives of Arya Maudgyalyana, the Arhat Charka, the sovereign Tri Rälpachen and others, and it is the kind of situation in which one needs to be very careful not to impute fault or pass judgment upon the actions of holy beings.

This is a VERY significant passage, especially in the light of what is going on today and how we pass judgment upon other lamas in whatever circumstances. I'd like to repeat again:  It is the kind of situation in which one needs to be very careful not to impute fault or pass judgment upon the actions of holy beings.

It is admirable and inspiring to see how Trijang Rinpoche responds to this whole political situation surrounding Reting Rinpoche. He remains remarkably unswayed by the events, maintaining a very pure and uncritical view of the situation. He tells the situation as it is and then reminds us of how important it is not to take sides, pass judgment or let our own faulty perception get in the way. After all, who are we to judge compared to these holy beings?

[Helena]

Well pointed out, Dharma Defender, that we should not just focus on part of the text.

And thank you, Beggar for posting it in here for everyone's easy reading.

Further on also, on page 88, Trijang Rinpoche says this:

However, if you consider it in terms of being a display for the sake of trainees and the powerful karma being dealt with, there is no certainty that those ordinary beings actually created the karma of forsaking the guru. Similar events occurred in the lives of Arya Maudgyalyana, the Arhat Charka, the sovereign Tri Rälpachen and others, and it is the kind of situation in which one needs to be very careful not to impute fault or pass judgment upon the actions of holy beings.

This is a VERY significant passage, especially in the light of what is going on today and how we pass judgment upon other lamas in whatever circumstances. I'd like to repeat again:  It is the kind of situation in which one needs to be very careful not to impute fault or pass judgment upon the actions of holy beings.

It is admirable and inspiring to see how Trijang Rinpoche responds to this whole political situation surrounding Reting Rinpoche. He remains remarkably unswayed by the events, maintaining a very pure and uncritical view of the situation. He tells the situation as it is and then reminds us of how important it is not to take sides, pass judgment or let our own faulty perception get in the way. After all, who are we to judge compared to these holy beings?

I was just commenting in another thread how our ordinary perception is not free of duality and therefore, can never see the ultimate truth in things or the ultimate reality of things. Hence, we place emotions and thoughts into our judgement or conclusion on how things should be. And become attached to that idea or perception, but it does not make our perception right or true.

It is not easy to make sense or even see the "illusory display" between Highly Attained Beings, as it is beyond our ordinary capacity. Our reasoning, no matter how intellectual or seemingly right is tainted with the ordinary "worldly concerns".

We are simply not that enlightened to know what is really there or not there, and what is true or not true.

What is within our control is how we will act, think and speak because this has impact on our own karma. And that is real.

As such, bios of great masters are important and valuable to read because it does show us how little we do know and how much we need to learn from our own Guru. When guided by our own Guru, we are safe within the "Guru's Mandala". Therefore, we do not disparage other Gurus.

We all need our own Gurus to get out of Samsara.

[triesa]

Very well said Helena.

I want to point out again that there will be occasions that some actions of highly attained lamas may appear unrealized to us, only because of our wordly concerns and perceptions, but their actions are totally manifested out of "compassion".

Compassion does not have to be manifested in only the "goodie goodie" ways, in fact, it can be manifested in any methods, as long as it is REAL, there is absolutely no problem with using different methods by these highly attained lamas.

And sometimes, these unrealised actions are called for, just so we can look into our deluded minds as well as presenting us a challenge on what we are going to act upon.

Concurrently, I find reading the biographies of highly attained masters such as H.H. Trijang Rinpoche, wil be great
guildance for us on how to act when we come across such situations. If H.H. Trijang Rinpoche could refrain from making harse judgements on actions on other high lamas, why should we let ourselves  pass critical judgements so easily then?

[DSFriend]

Concurrently, I find reading the biographies of highly attained masters such as H.H. Trijang Rinpoche, wil be great
guildance for us on how to act when we come across such situations. If H.H. Trijang Rinpoche could refrain from making harse judgements on actions on other high lamas, why should we let ourselves  pass critical judgements so easily then?

Good suggestion Triesa. Our daily experiences derived from mostly wrong/limited views. Reading about the lives and views of high lamas and attained beings gives us a glimpse into renunciate lives, free of self grasping, -- excellent tool to tame and re-habituate our minds.