Dalai Lama may retire in 6 months

[WisdomBeing]

Friends there will never be someone like His Holiness the Dalai lama again who holds both temporal and spiritual power of such magnitude, I think maybe such acts in this life are a deliberate attempt at once and for all removing the politics from what was once a most auspcious monastic lineage of reincarnated venerables.
After all how many here would follow the Karmapa as their spiritual and temporal leader ? Not that I have anything against HH Karmapa ( whichever one it maybe ) but as we know when the Dalai lama passes from this current body china will soon be filling the role would this perhapes provide the time for a perfect move back to the pure days of old.

After all HH panchen lama is working in china for others benifit Im under the impression because His eminence Gangchen lama has recognised him as his old friend the 10th that appearances and actions can appear to be deceptive but after all we cannot see the effects of what is to come from them over many lifetimes.

Hi Zach

Agree with you re Panchen Lama, "appearances and actions can appear to be deceptive but after all we cannot see the effects of what is to come from them over many lifetimes." - This is exactly it. In our myopia, we should not judge others. After all, do we know for sure whether actions which appear deceptive really are or not?

[Zach]

Friends there will never be someone like His Holiness the Dalai lama again who holds both temporal and spiritual power of such magnitude, I think maybe such acts in this life are a deliberate attempt at once and for all removing the politics from what was once a most auspcious monastic lineage of reincarnated venerables.
After all how many here would follow the Karmapa as their spiritual and temporal leader ? Not that I have anything against HH Karmapa ( whichever one it maybe ) but as we know when the Dalai lama passes from this current body china will soon be filling the role would this perhapes provide the time for a perfect move back to the pure days of old.

After all HH panchen lama is working in china for others benifit Im under the impression because His eminence Gangchen lama has recognised him as his old friend the 10th that appearances and actions can appear to be deceptive but after all we cannot see the effects of what is to come from them over many lifetimes.

Hi Zach

Agree with you re Panchen Lama, "appearances and actions can appear to be deceptive but after all we cannot see the effects of what is to come from them over many lifetimes." - This is exactly it. In our myopia, we should not judge others. After all, do we know for sure whether actions which appear deceptive really are or not?

What is deceptive and what is not ? A good question. But it is also irrelevant to our practise regarding politics we should follow the example of Je Phabongkha and not engage. I dont know being a deluded person I dont know which is left of right so I rely on the spiritual guide, The spiritual guide says to always keep right speech in mind and never to be disrespectful of others so I shall follow this advise.

[thaimonk]

If we follow Pabongka and not get involved with politics then we should not have any protests against the Dalai Lama in any part of the world.

Since our time and Pabongka's time is different, then different methods for dharma need to be employed.

[Lineageholder]

If we follow Pabongka and not get involved with politics then we should not have any protests against the Dalai Lama in any part of the world.

Since our time and Pabongka's time is different, then different methods for dharma need to be employed.

Protesting over the destruction of a spiritual lineage, in order to try to prevent its destruction, is not a political action.

[Vajraprotector]

Protesting over the destruction of a spiritual lineage, in order to try to prevent its destruction, is not a political action.

I personally agree with protest, but for me, sangha screaming "Dalai Lama Stop Lying!" is a bit too much for me. This is my personal opinion.

However, I would join in the protest, if it were something like hunger strike and others that are not too aggressive. I know it's not everybody's style / method, but I do prefer methods like that, and that will upkeep the "dignity" and position of Sangha members especially.

Sorry to say, there's already enough bad press about "Tibetan Buddhism", monks and nuns in robes protesting and asking the head of their religions sects to "stop lying" just makes it worse. Having said that, I'd still like to say that the members have really put in a lot of effort to make Shugden practitioners' voice heard, and got a lot of media attention to fight for our cause. 

[Helena]

It is precisely because there are so many different types of minds that Buddha invented the 84,000 different ways to achieve enlightenment.

Different individuals have different preferences for this or that and they certainly have so many opinions about what is suitable or not, what is right or not, etc.

If there were not so many different ways, I think many of us would never get the chance to ever hear the word: Buddha or Dharma.

So, perhaps there are different methods different groups would employ to practise the Dharma and express the Dharma or even protect the Dharma - they all would cater for their own groups.

It may not be my cup of tea but I can respect that they are doing what they think is right. Though I would not be insisting that my own thinking is supreme and correct.

I am very glad that there are different methods and ways to practise Dharma for every one of us.

As different as it may seem and sound, in the end - we will all be at the same destination and that is, Nirvana.

So, please be glad that every one has a fair chance and please allow each to follow the path which is best suited for them. And just be happy that they are on their way.

[beggar]

In the first place, it may be good to define what we mean by "political" here. To me, I think becoming political necessarily includes or implies some sort of personal agenda, where one side will "win" and the other "loses", or becomes oppressed/suppressed/removed.

In this case, the TGIE's actions can be seen as very much political - elevating their own status, driving fear into others and of course, the suppression of many, many people.

If we retaliate in the same way - also aggressively and with personal attacks - it can amount to the same thing because inadvertently, we are creating that same situation of putting down the other side.

I understand that there are some views here that we should make the problems known and stop the persecution and discrimination. I believe there are ways to do this without getting political in turn - we can focus on how to help one side without necessarily putting down the other or launching personal attacks against the dalai lama, which we have seen many examples of throughout the web, videos and media of all sorts.

I think it is without any doubt that everyone on this forum has a good intention to help fellow shugden practitioners, and not allow further damage to be done. But HOW we do it can become political or even personal.

[WisdomBeing]

In the first place, it may be good to define what we mean by "political" here. To me, I think becoming political necessarily includes or implies some sort of personal agenda, where one side will "win" and the other "loses", or becomes oppressed/suppressed/removed.

In this case, the TGIE's actions can be seen as very much political - elevating their own status, driving fear into others and of course, the suppression of many, many people.

If we retaliate in the same way - also aggressively and with personal attacks - it can amount to the same thing because inadvertently, we are creating that same situation of putting down the other side.

I understand that there are some views here that we should make the problems known and stop the persecution and discrimination. I believe there are ways to do this without getting political in turn - we can focus on how to help one side without necessarily putting down the other or launching personal attacks against the dalai lama, which we have seen many examples of throughout the web, videos and media of all sorts.

I think it is without any doubt that everyone on this forum has a good intention to help fellow shugden practitioners, and not allow further damage to be done. But HOW we do it can become political or even personal.

I guess that as most of us are not yet enlightened, it is very difficult for us to have no agenda. I know it's tough for me to try and not get stirred up when others are being critical of other spiritual teachers, for example. So I am sure that for those who disagree with me, it is the same.. ironic really, when both parties believe that they are trying to benefit others. I guess the only way to move forward would be to examine our own motivations - whether it is from the eight worldly concerns and if it is, to admit it to ourselves and try not to put those with opposing views down. Then we can agree to disagree and the issue will not become personal.

[Helena]

I like what Zach W wrote about "respectful speech".

Respectful speech will not only reflect well on yourself but also on how much you are practising Dharma. Above all, it also reflects on our own Gurus as we are our Guru's students.

Respectful speech allows us to highlight the wrongful actions but not personalize the attack, i.e. the person.

For example, while protesting is good to raise the awareness of the ban, but instead of placards and shouting, "Dalai Lama is lying" - may be a better way is to say, "Dalai Lama please lift the ban or Dalai Lama please give religious freedom".

Of course, I am speaking merely for myself. Of course, I do realise that some people believe it is completely all right and that they will not get bad karma by saying what they believe is to be true. Hence, they did what they did.

However, I believe that with respectful speech and skill means - it reflects better on oneself, one's Guru and the whole sangha that Buddhism/Dharma is represented by.

I am sure "outsiders" will judge us in the same way we seem to be judging each other in here or out there.

I believe all sides believe that they are benefiting others - be in if you belong in DL's camp, or DS's camp or you believe in HHDL and DS working together for the Dharma. If one didn't believe that they are helping one another, then they may not be as passionate about their cause, even to the point of being very emotional about it.

Well, if all sides do eventual benefit everyone - then it is just a matter of choosing a side that suits you best and respectfully allow the rest to do what they think is best for them. Especially, if they are just following their Guru's instructions.

Nothing we do or think right now can be that pure. As long as we are in samsara, we are stained by the 8 worldly concerns. Our speech, actions, thoughts, etc.

With the closing of the year is coming - another year will end and a new year will begin. We don't have to always argue about our differences, we can focus on our same beliefs which is the great King Dorje Shugden.

We do not need to carry forward any more differences, but focus on what we can do better to serve our Gurus, Protector and the Dharma.

I may not be protesting with you, but I'll gladly print out brochures and distribute them. I'll gladly donate to the Dorje Shugden monasteries and monks. I'll gladly promote this website, the illustrated graphic story of Dorje Shugden and many more.

At least, when we are all doing something instead of arguing, our energies are spent on promoting the Protector, the Dharma and the Lineage. With united and concerted effort, Dharma wins. Our Protector definitely wins.

So, when the Dalai Lama retires or passes away in due time ( sorry to say ) - our Protector's supreme name and holy image have already been widely disseminated everywhere.

When accompanied by our own CONSISTENT "respectful" speech and actions, we reflect that greatness of our Protector's practice. All doubts will then be clarified and corrected.

Have a wonderful weekend ahead, everyone.

May peace and harmony be with all of you.

[Lineageholder]

Respectful speech allows us to highlight the wrongful actions but not personalize the attack, i.e. the person.

The WSS's position is very clear: the Dalai Lama is a fake and his mixing of religion and politics is causing all the problems associated with the 'Dorje Shugden controversy'.  You can understand this clearly by reading 'A Great Deception' I'm sorry to have to say that, but this is the position.  It is not the Dalai Lama's actions that are the problem but the Dalai Lama himself, therefore the slogans reflect that.

The point is, the Dalai Lama has lied.  He is promoting a false view of our Protector, one that is not in accordance with the views of our Holy Teachers and he is leading people to a wrong view.   Therefore, to say 'Dalai Lama, stop lying' is not disrespectful.  It's simply asking to Dalai Lama to stop what he has been doing: lying.  The results of such lies is much suffering.

We should have compassion for the Dalai Lama, but we also need to say it like it is without trying to dress it up to be something else.  We must deal with the conventionalities of this situation.

[WisdomBeing]

It is not the Dalai Lama's actions that are the problem but the Dalai Lama himself,

I was taught that it is the actions which are wrong - this is in general - rather than the person. Eg if someone kills another person, it is the action which we condemn, not the person because the person may have done it for another reason and for whatever reasons, the killer/murderer will reap the resultant karma. Hence, if the Dalai Lama is spreading wrong view of our Protector and the Dalai Lama is NOT a Buddha, can you imagine the karma? Hence the compassion the Dalai Lama's critics should have for him.

[DSFriend]

Respectful speech allows us to highlight the wrongful actions but not personalize the attack, i.e. the person.

The WSS's position is very clear: the Dalai Lama is a fake and his mixing of religion and politics is causing all the problems associated with the 'Dorje Shugden controversy'. 

Yes it is the WSS's position for this view.This is not the ONLY view. This website does not share this view.

[triesa]

When I contemplate more on this DS ban issue stirred  up by HH Dalai Lama, it is in my opinion, a very well orchestrated plan.

HH Dalai Lama has been spreading and promoting Tibetan Buddhism in the West  successfully for the past 30 plus years, however, due to the political issue onTibet, Dalai Lama could not really do much in China. This careful plot of DS ban has aroused much interest about DS among the Chinese.

Now that HH Dalai Lama is talking less and less on the DS ban,  couple with his recent decision to retire soon indicates clearly he is preparing to leave (I pray he will live long).  With no disrespect, when HH Dalai Lama passes away, DS practice will flourish even more and will become a school of its own in buddhism.

How compassionate Dalai Lama is!

[hope rainbow]

The fact is: weither His Holiness retires in 6 months or not, there will come a time when His Holiness enters clear light (which I hope will be the latest possible, and which I wish would not happen at all), and I think this is what His Holiness is preparing us for.
A being such as the Dalai Lama does NOT retire, a bodhisattva does not "retire", a buddha does not "retire", "retirement" is in contradiction with the nature of a bodhisattva or a buddha.
History has proven how it does not help to doubt the Dalai Lama, for he has a vision that goes wider and wiser than ours (mine at least).
We can speculate about what will happen, as for me I would rather trust in the Dalai Lama's actions however mysterious or contradictory they might appear to us; and this respect includes for me to practice and entrust Dorje Shugden, however contradictory it might appear to some.

[hope rainbow]

This does not mean blind following, I think better than that is expected of us.