Dalai Lama may retire in 6 months

[WisdomBeing]

Sometimes i think that there can be several scenarios when the Dalai Lama passes into clear light -

1. the ban can be lifted
2. the ban can be perpetuated by the TGIE
3. DS practitioners become a bigger and stronger separate group - like Serpom, Shar Gaden

We really cannot tell what will happen and speculation sometimes is a waste of time so perhaps we should just focus on our practice and not the current situation of the Dalai Lama, whether we believe he is a Buddha or not.

[Lineageholder]

Hence, if the Dalai Lama is spreading wrong view of our Protector and the Dalai Lama is NOT a Buddha, can you imagine the karma? Hence the compassion the Dalai Lama's critics should have for him.

Yes, definitely we need to have compassion for the Dalai Lama, but he is the source of this problem.  That's why I say the Dalai Lama is the problem.  His position comes from hundreds of years of politicking since the 5th Dalai Lama -during all that time, with the exception of the 7th Dalai Lama, the position of Dalai Lama has been highly political.  This politics has infected Tibetan Buddhism and the 14th Dalai Lama is following the same path.  Unless the Dalai Lama changes and renounces his worldly power-seeking intentions, the Dorje Shugden problem will never go away.  The Dalai Lama has to change for this problem to resolve.

[thaimonk]

Sometimes i think that there can be several scenarios when the Dalai Lama passes into clear light -

1. the ban can be lifted
2. the ban can be perpetuated by the TGIE
3. DS practitioners become a bigger and stronger separate group - like Serpom, Shar Gaden

We really cannot tell what will happen and speculation sometimes is a waste of time so perhaps we should just focus on our practice and not the current situation of the Dalai Lama, whether we believe he is a Buddha or not.

I like what you say. Why waste MORE time focussing on the Dalai Lama. If the Pope bans divorce, just ignore him if you need to seperate from your spouse. If Dalai Lama says no to Shugden, just ignore him. Why go on and on? Just practice Shugden.

[Lineageholder]

Sometimes i think that there can be several scenarios when the Dalai Lama passes into clear light -

1. the ban can be lifted
2. the ban can be perpetuated by the TGIE
3. DS practitioners become a bigger and stronger separate group - like Serpom, Shar Gaden

We really cannot tell what will happen and speculation sometimes is a waste of time so perhaps we should just focus on our practice and not the current situation of the Dalai Lama, whether we believe he is a Buddha or not.

I like what you say. Why waste MORE time focussing on the Dalai Lama. If the Pope bans divorce, just ignore him if you need to seperate from your spouse. If Dalai Lama says no to Shugden, just ignore him. Why go on and on? Just practice Shugden.

I think you've missed the point.  You're a non-Buddhist as far as everyone who has faith in the Dalai Lama is concerned.  No one wants to associate with you because you worship a demon and have broken your refuge commitment.  The Dalai Lama has broken with the lineage of his own Teachers by breaking his samaya and created his own lineage which is not valid, so those who follow him and receive teachings from him are following no lineage.  Those Gelugpas who are following the valid lineage are now branded as non-Buddhists, which is a definite obstacle to the spreading of Je Tsongkhapa's tradition.

The only solution is for the Dalai Lama to be shown to be clearly wrong and deceptive such that everyone accepts it and stops believing him, or for him to change his mind and tell everyone he made a great mistake.  Otherwise there's not much future for the Ganden tradition except for the faithful few who still follow the lineage of Je Pabongkhapa and Trijang Rinpoche.

[beggar]

I think you've missed the point.  You're a non-Buddhist as far as everyone who has faith in the Dalai Lama is concerned.  No one wants to associate with you because you worship a demon and have broken your refuge commitment. 

Who do you mean by "everyone?" This is not a correct statement - there are MILLIONS of Buddhist out there in the world who haven't even heard of the Dalai Lama, for example, or don't regard him as anything special, just another lama. (I say this with respect). Does this mean that not following his advice also makes them "un-Buddhist?"


The Dalai Lama has broken with the lineage of his own Teachers by breaking his samaya and created his own lineage which is not valid, so those who follow him and receive teachings from him are following no lineage.  Those Gelugpas who are following the valid lineage are now branded as non-Buddhists, which is a definite obstacle to the spreading of Je Tsongkhapa's tradition.

The only solution is for the Dalai Lama to be shown to be clearly wrong and deceptive such that everyone accepts it and stops believing him, or for him to change his mind and tell everyone he made a great mistake.  Otherwise there's not much future for the Ganden tradition except for the faithful few who still follow the lineage of Je Pabongkhapa and Trijang Rinpoche.
[/quote]

I still stand by my point that just pointing out that someone is wrong, deceptive etc etc all the time only creates more negativity. NOBODY likes to be told that they are wrong, even if they are - this is the nature of how we think and behave! And the continuous blaming and trying to "expose" the Dalai Lama will inevitably just upset more people (his followers) and make it even harder to have any civilised dialogue or hope of proper communication.

I feel strongly that it would be much more beneficial and effective to attack this from the other side. Instead of always trying to expose someone as wrong, show the logic behind the situation. Show that his actions and the ban is wrong by looking at the issues and applying logical Dharma arguments to it. Provide people with knowledge about Dorje Shugden to show how "right" this practice is (more positive) instead of just pointing out how "wrong" someone else is (more negative)

[WisdomBeing]

I agree with you Beggar. I like the points you made re there are many people who do not know the Dalai Lama or follow him. And that it's better not to be negative. This is my view in general anyway - that we should not have negative thoughts about others.

If people who believe in the Dalai Lama think I am a non-Buddhist, so what? I can tell them, hey, I believe the same as you - I respect the Dalai Lama. And since I believe that the Dalai Lama is working together with Dorje Shugden, and I can show you the rationale why, perhaps they will look at Shugden practice differently.

It's a much more positive way of looking at things.

[triesa]

The whole point of Dharma practice is to change ourselves one step at a time towards the qualities of a Buddha. If we cannot make the Dalai Lama change his view at this time, then we must not waste any more time to highlight this issue.

We could adopt a new attitude of "accepting" the situation, "letting go" our views against the Dalai Lama, and " taking positive actions" towards promoting Dorje Shugden practice in whatever way we can. Yes, we all can do this one step at a time, some can make bigger steps at a time and some smaller steps, but that doesn't matter, I think. At least we are moving forwards to a positivie territory - positive thoughts lead to positive actions.......then positive results.

I have always thought to myself, I dislike arguements, crisis and conflicts, but without these situations, how do I have a chance to practice what I need to practice??  The Dorje Shugden's ban has affected the lives of millions of buddhists, and if we take one step back and think, why not embrace this situation and practice what Lord buddha taught us, afterall, we all know samsara is never a prefect world.

[hope rainbow]

I am led to think that having Guru devotion and clean samaya is what matters most importantly for most of us.
I wish that The Dalai Lama's disciples have faithful Guru devotion and clean samaya.
I wish that any enlightened Master's disciple have faithful Guru devotion and clean samaya.
I wish that those that have the Dalai Lama as a guru and other lama(s) as their guru(s) have enough wisdom to see the teachings of all their Gurus as being without contradiction, no matter what.

And I wish that we all could see our own mind working as clearly as we "seem" to be able to see other's.

[WisdomBeing]

I am led to think that having Guru devotion and clean samaya is what matters most importantly for most of us.
I wish that The Dalai Lama's disciples have faithful Guru devotion and clean samaya.
I wish that any enlightened Master's disciple have faithful Guru devotion and clean samaya.
I wish that those that have the Dalai Lama as a guru and other lama(s) as their guru(s) have enough wisdom to see the teachings of all their Gurus as being without contradiction, no matter what.

And I wish that we all could see our own mind working as clearly as we "seem" to be able to see other's.

Dear Hope,

I agree with you, but i think that it is the Dalai Lama's disciples who are Shugden practitioners who are torn right now - because they want to keep clean samaya with their Guru, the Dalai Lama, yet they want to continue their Shugden practice. May Dorje Shugden give them strength and peace of mind...

[triesa]

[quote author=hope rainbow link=topic=1002.msg12376#msg12376 date=1291890383

And I wish that we all could see our own mind working as clearly as we "seem" to be able to see other's.
[/quote]

This is interesting. And I wish, as much as you wish, Hope Rainbow, that we will all see how our own minds work rather than the others

Change always start from oneself and from within....

[pgdharma]

I am led to think that having Guru devotion and clean samaya is what matters most importantly for most of us.
I wish that The Dalai Lama's disciples have faithful Guru devotion and clean samaya.
I wish that any enlightened Master's disciple have faithful Guru devotion and clean samaya.
I wish that those that have the Dalai Lama as a guru and other lama(s) as their guru(s) have enough wisdom to see the teachings of all their Gurus as being without contradiction, no matter what.

And I wish that we all could see our own mind working as clearly as we "seem" to be able to see other's.

I agree with you of your wish that we can all have the wisdom to see the teachings without contradiction.  But how many will have the ability to have the wisdom to see this. Our mind is the most difficult to tame. Could it be that we do not have the merits to see the truth, to know what is right or wrong or which is the best course to take? This is how Dalai Lama's disciples are facing now. Which side to follow.......

I feel that instead of just arguing who is right or wrong,and since we are not able to change the Dalai Lama's view, let us used our precious time to change ourselves instead. Let us practice patience and tolerance and have a more positive outlook and attitude.  Who knows, the truth will prevail when the time is right. Anyway, to just keep  arguing who is right or wrong will lead us nowhere.

[WisdomBeing]

I agree with you of your wish that we can all have the wisdom to see the teachings without contradiction.  But how many will have the ability to have the wisdom to see this. Our mind is the most difficult to tame. Could it be that we do not have the merits to see the truth, to know what is right or wrong or which is the best course to take? This is how Dalai Lama's disciples are facing now. Which side to follow.......

I feel that instead of just arguing who is right or wrong,and since we are not able to change the Dalai Lama's view, let us used our precious time to change ourselves instead. Let us practice patience and tolerance and have a more positive outlook and attitude.  Who knows, the truth will prevail when the time is right. Anyway, to just keep  arguing who is right or wrong will lead us nowhere.

Agree with you on this one. If only everyone followed the same philosophy, I think we would have more constructive behaviour and peace of mind. I know my mind is all over the place but I have always consistently believed in the point of view of this website and find it refreshingly Buddhist.

May true Dharma prevail.

[triesa]

I agree with you of your wish that we can all have the wisdom to see the teachings without contradiction.  But how many will have the ability to have the wisdom to see this. Our mind is the most difficult to tame. Could it be that we do not have the merits to see the truth, to know what is right or wrong or which is the best course to take? This is how Dalai Lama's disciples are facing now. Which side to follow.......

I feel that instead of just arguing who is right or wrong,and since we are not able to change the Dalai Lama's view, let us used our precious time to change ourselves instead. Let us practice patience and tolerance and have a more positive outlook and attitude.  Who knows, the truth will prevail when the time is right. Anyway, to just keep  arguing who is right or wrong will lead us nowhere.

There are only 24 hours in a day, why not use the time constructively and think positively too??? How many hours you would choose to engage in negative thoughts that would bring more negativities to yourself and others???

I agree with you, pgdharma, let us all use our precious human life to change ourselves, to practice patience and tolerance, accepting and moving on. These are very much needed at this time.

[DSFriend]

The whole point of Dharma practice is to change ourselves one step at a time towards the qualities of a Buddha. If we cannot make the Dalai Lama change his view at this time, then we must not waste any more time to highlight this issue.

We could adopt a new attitude of "accepting" the situation, "letting go" our views against the Dalai Lama, and " taking positive actions" towards promoting Dorje Shugden practice in whatever way we can. Yes, we all can do this one step at a time, some can make bigger steps at a time and some smaller steps, but that doesn't matter, I think. At least we are moving forwards to a positivie territory - positive thoughts lead to positive actions.......then positive results.

I have always thought to myself, I dislike arguements, crisis and conflicts, but without these situations, how do I have a chance to practice what I need to practice??  The Dorje Shugden's ban has affected the lives of millions of buddhists, and if we take one step back and think, why not embrace this situation and practice what Lord buddha taught us, afterall, we all know samsara is never a prefect world.

If we believe in karma, take refuge in the infallibility of karma then why focus so much and getting so upset with the Dalai Lama.

What you share of "letting go..." is what dharma is about. I suppose our own self righteous, egoistical deluded minds under the disguise of equality and freedom of religion justifies the anger and hatred held against the dalai lama .  isn't this the sign of the three poisons at work?

[triesa]

The whole point of Dharma practice is to change ourselves one step at a time towards the qualities of a Buddha. If we cannot make the Dalai Lama change his view at this time, then we must not waste any more time to highlight this issue.

We could adopt a new attitude of "accepting" the situation, "letting go" our views against the Dalai Lama, and " taking positive actions" towards promoting Dorje Shugden practice in whatever way we can. Yes, we all can do this one step at a time, some can make bigger steps at a time and some smaller steps, but that doesn't matter, I think. At least we are moving forwards to a positivie territory - positive thoughts lead to positive actions.......then positive results.

I have always thought to myself, I dislike arguements, crisis and conflicts, but without these situations, how do I have a chance to practice what I need to practice??  The Dorje Shugden's ban has affected the lives of millions of buddhists, and if we take one step back and think, why not embrace this situation and practice what Lord buddha taught us, afterall, we all know samsara is never a prefect world.

If we believe in karma, take refuge in the infallibility of karma then why focus so much and getting so upset with the Dalai Lama.

What you share of "letting go..." is what dharma is about. I suppose our own self righteous, egoistical deluded minds under the disguise of equality and freedom of religion justifies the anger and hatred held against the dalai lama .  isn't this the sign of the three poisons at work?

Only when we are confronted with the situations do we even get a chance to realise if we are getting closer to letting go of our egoistical minds, and then to begin to work on eliminating the three poisons. If we can really practice "letting go" and "accepting" the situations, our minds would become softer, lighter and more pliable eventually.