Author Topic: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan  (Read 14897 times)

thaimonk

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MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« on: January 05, 2011, 04:03:46 PM »
                   

MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN

                                                    By

                                      Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan

 

This will not be a re-hashing of the pros and cons of this controversy. In this respect, I take a position of neutrality. Recent conversations with Lamas and other Dharma practitioners has convinced me that it is time for me to make a public statement. As a long-time Dharma practitioner in the Gelug Lineage, this is not a topic with which I am unfamiliar.

My Root-Lama – Chodag Tulku Rinpoche, with whom I studied until his passing at the end of 2001. I was ordained by Dagom Rinpoche at Dagom Ganden Tensung Ling Monastery in Bloomington, Indiana.

Chodag Tulku and I had many long and detailed conversations about this matter. He gave me very specific instructions regarding how I was to handle discourse on this topic and the things I have to say about it are either his direct words or are informed by his what he taught me. His teaching was that while this all started as an internecine religious squabble some centuries ago, it has degenerated into a squabble about Tibetan politics and not religion. Tibetan politics, both before and since the introduction Buddhism, has a long, violent, bloody history filled with deep political intrigue, and long-standing sectarian hatred, including the assassinations of many religious figures, even Dalai Lamas, and open warfare between monks in rival monasteries. My Lama said that as a practitioner and a monastic, I am to avoid the mixing of politics and Dharma. It is always disastrous, always poisons both.

 

This first thing I want to address is the first question usually asked, aside from, perhaps, “What is all this Shugden mess?”, and that is : “Are you a Shugden practitioner?”  As with ALL tantric practices, I will neither deny nor confirm any connection to this practice. As with all of ones practices, especially Tantra,  it is an inappropriate topic for public discourse for any practitioner,  period. A true Tantric practitioner will not engage in any publicly discourse with respect to whether or not they have an empowerment for a specific practice. To do so violates ones tantric vows. This is the teaching of my Root-Lama.

Some of you will make an immediate assumption one way or the other about what my answer “means”.  If you actually care one way or the other about whether or not I, or anyone else, is a Shugdenpa then you already have a proclivity for wasting your time and meddling in affairs that do not concern you. My personal observation would simply be that you do not spend enough time on your meditation seat or reading the Bodhisattva and Tantric vows.

 

The second thing I wish to address is this. I do not have relationships with Lamas and other practitioners, or friendships and acquaintances with anyone, based on their position on this matter. I don’t know how most people feel about this controversy and, truthfully, don’t care what anyone thinks.

I know many people who are Shugden practitioners, even more who are not and, for the most part, have no clue about the vast majority of the practitioners I know. If it matters to you, then I’m probably not someone you want to know. I base my decisions regarding friendship on how one treats other people and whether or not they are disruptive to my mind-stream. My Lama’s teaching on this was, also, quite clear. 1. You can have all the compassion and loving-kindness toward another sentient being and, quite reasonably (within the dictates of yogic principles) not want that being to be anywhere near you. 2. You should always avoid those who are disruptive to your mind-stream regardless of who they may be.

 

Any of you who have gone to hear Tibetan Lamas since the introduction of the Dharma in the West has taken teachings from, studied with, or has been empowered by, one or more Shugden Lamas whether you know it or not. Many of you still take teachings from a Lama who is a Shugdenpa. The fact that you don’t know is an example of the both the critical importance of secrecy in Tantra and the facetious pretense of superiority that is at the heart of this centuries-old, occasionally rehashed squabble about political influence and sectarian persecution.

I have a zero-tolerance policy toward, and absolutely no respect for, anyone who engages in such nonsense, who perpetuates this blatant disrespect for the teachings of the Buddha, or for anyone who harasses or intimidates another person for their spiritual beliefs and practices. My Lama was very clear on this aspect of the teaching of Shakyamuni:

               

               The beliefs of others are not your concern.

DSFriend

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 07:08:55 AM »
For the longest time (in my younger days), I thought that Buddhism is the only religion, free of persecutions and bloody baths in the name of holy wars. Sadly, this is not the case.  Does it mean the Buddhist principles, the dalai lama and the many holy lamas and monks are wrong when it comes to the persecutions surrounding the ban of Shugden practices?  Is Buddhism flawed?

Of course not! There's much opportunities to put into practice the Buddhist principles in such circumstances. This article by Ven Lozang Gyaltsan resonates well with me and echos the stance of this beautiful website.

If one of the main reasons which contributed towards the ban of shugden practices is mixing of dharma and politics, then does it warrant for us to continue creating more sufferings by persecuting those through words and actions? I totally agree with Ven Lozang to to not mix the two as they are poison. Let's minus off politics from the equation.

Who are we to be going around soliciting and asking who has tantric vows? Really it is non of our business and not only that, we do not have the rights to do so... "The believes of others are not your concern"

Thank you Thaimonk for posting this article. I find the dharmic advice to be very encouraging and uplifting. May King Shugden hold our minds, strong and stable, clear and unwavering in practicing dharmic principles.

peace and happiness
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 05:23:31 PM by DSFriend »

Helena

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 07:49:27 AM »
Wow...this is such a powerful statement from Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan.

Thank you, Thai Monk for posting it in here.

Every line provokes much contemplation and serves as a teaching for us all.

In life, we do make exceptions and allow tolerance for many things. Some good, some bad. But there should be some things that we should not ever allow. I especially liked what Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan said below.

I have a zero-tolerance policy toward, and absolutely no respect for, anyone who engages in such nonsense, who perpetuates this blatant disrespect for the teachings of the Buddha, or for anyone who harasses or intimidates another person for their spiritual beliefs and practices. My Lama was very clear on this aspect of the teaching of Shakyamuni:

               
The beliefs of others are not your concern.


As it is, we grapple daily with the maddening thoughts and voices in our heads. We can't even get a grip of our own "monkey mind" and yet we are so liberal in dispensing our opinions in this or that.

The simple truth is whatever we think we know now will all change when some new source of information comes into light. Then everything changes - our reality and what we thought was so important to us.

It would be best to just concentrate on our own practice and train ourselves to become better Dharma practitioners rather than meddle into others' beliefs.

Everyone's spiritual journey is unique and different.
Helena

kurava

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 03:15:27 PM »
Ven Lozang addresses the Shugden issue straight to the point :

It's none of anybody's business what my practice is because to debate on what others should or should not practice will not benefit you.

As with all of ones practices, especially Tantra,  it is an inappropriate topic for public discourse for any practitioner,  period. A true Tantric practitioner will not engage in any publicly discourse with respect to whether or not they have an empowerment for a specific practice. To do so violates ones tantric vows.

As a true Tantric practioner, one should keep the above foremost in one's mind and NOT break this basic vow.

If you actually care one way or the other about whether or not I, or anyone else, is a Shugdenpa then you already have a proclivity for wasting your time and meddling in affairs that do not concern you. My personal observation would simply be that you do not spend enough time on your meditation seat or reading the Bodhisattva and Tantric vows.

Neither does Ven mince words, his message is direct and powerful ......mind your own practice, be of benefit to yourself and others.

WisdomBeing

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 05:11:23 PM »
I just wanted to share that Ven Lozang had told me awhile back that when i was listed as his friend on facebook, he was given an ultimatum by a particular Dharma centre to either delete me off his facebook because I was an obvious Shugdenpa or delete this Dharma centre and he chose to delete the Dharma centre because he didn't appreciate being given ultimatums like that as it was very unbuddhist. He's been my hero ever since!

I very much like Ven Lozang's position of neutrality on this issue and it is not necessary to confirm or deny if one is a practitioner or not because what business is it of others.

I like what Ven Lozang says here:

Quote
Any of you who have gone to hear Tibetan Lamas since the introduction of the Dharma in the West has taken teachings from, studied with, or has been empowered by, one or more Shugden Lamas whether you know it or not. Many of you still take teachings from a Lama who is a Shugdenpa. The fact that you don’t know is an example of the both the critical importance of secrecy in Tantra and the facetious pretense of superiority that is at the heart of this centuries-old, occasionally rehashed squabble about political influence and sectarian persecution.

We only need to look at the illustrious list of amazing beings on the Great Masters section of this website to know this to be true.

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Helena

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 03:17:06 PM »
Wow, WB - Thank you so much for sharing that.

People and Lamas like Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan truly give meaning to the words: humanity and compassion.

The truth is, we are all inter-connected and inter-dependent in one life or another.

This is such an inspiring read! I love it!
Helena

triesa

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 03:51:29 PM »
Dear WB,

It is really unbuddhist for a Dharma center to ask Ven Lozang Gyaltsan to delete you as a friend on FB. It is exactly like TGIE discriminating all shugden practitioners by posting their names in public places..... saying stay away from them.....

If I were Ven Lozang, I would also delete the Dharma center on the FB whether I am a shugdenpa or not, simply because it is so undharmic and unethical to even ask that.

Big Uncle

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 08:05:39 PM »
I just wanted to share that Ven Lozang had told me awhile back that when i was listed as his friend on facebook, he was given an ultimatum by a particular Dharma centre to either delete me off his facebook because I was an obvious Shugdenpa or delete this Dharma centre and he chose to delete the Dharma centre because he didn't appreciate being given ultimatums like that as it was very unbuddhist. He's been my hero ever since!

I very much like Ven Lozang's position of neutrality on this issue and it is not necessary to confirm or deny if one is a practitioner or not because what business is it of others.

I like what Ven Lozang says here:

Quote
Any of you who have gone to hear Tibetan Lamas since the introduction of the Dharma in the West has taken teachings from, studied with, or has been empowered by, one or more Shugden Lamas whether you know it or not. Many of you still take teachings from a Lama who is a Shugdenpa. The fact that you don’t know is an example of the both the critical importance of secrecy in Tantra and the facetious pretense of superiority that is at the heart of this centuries-old, occasionally rehashed squabble about political influence and sectarian persecution.

We only need to look at the illustrious list of amazing beings on the Great Masters section of this website to know this to be true.

I love Ven Lozang and his direct and brash attitude towards the Dharma. I love what he did for you Wisdom Being and I think the world needs more Buddhists like that. He is indeed all our heroes and hopefully there would be more who would learn from his stand and viewpoint regarding Dorje Shugden so more people perpetuate the Dharma instead of sectarianism and negative karma (as a result). I just love his no-nonsense stand. I love that and it inspires me as well.

DharmaSpace

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 10:29:03 AM »
A very good quote - 
Quote
"The beliefs of others are not your concern"
.

I really like what venerable Lozang has has said in his article. We obviously cannot get enlightened through witch hunts and criticizing others practice. We have to do our own practice whatever it may be.

There is no benefit to reveal our practices to anyone, and everyone who has their practices should stick to their own. As dharma practitioners if we are not humble then what dharma practice do we claim we are doing?

DSFriend

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2011, 04:42:12 PM »
A very good quote - 
Quote
"The beliefs of others are not your concern"
.

There is no benefit to reveal our practices to anyone, and everyone who has their practices should stick to their own. As dharma practitioners if we are not humble then what dharma practice do we claim we are doing?

8 Worldly Dharmas!

beggar

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2011, 04:35:59 PM »
Quote
       
The second thing I wish to address is this. I do not have relationships with Lamas and other practitioners, or friendships and acquaintances with anyone, based on their position on this matter. I don’t know how most people feel about this controversy and, truthfully, don’t care what anyone thinks.

I know many people who are Shugden practitioners, even more who are not and, for the most part, have no clue about the vast majority of the practitioners I know. If it matters to you, then I’m probably not someone you want to know. I base my decisions regarding friendship on how one treats other people and whether or not they are disruptive to my mind-stream.


I wanted to stand up and applaud and cheer to my computer when I read this. BRAVO!!! What a beautiful piece of writing - honest, straight to the point, logical and says it all in just a few sentences. A big, clear wake-up call to people on either side of the camp, and so much inspiration for people caught in between or confused.

Apart from the many (great!!!) parts that people have already pointed out, I liked the above very much too. How we choose who we associate with shouldn't be based upon something so silly as "what they practice"... although clearly, the edict that is issued in the monasteries is that one cannot even say hello to a friend on the street if he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner!

This sums it all up: I base my decisions regarding friendship on how one treats other people and whether or not they are disruptive to my mind-stream.

CaliMonk

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 07:42:30 PM »



I would like to thank Thai Monk for reposting this from my Facebook page. I appreciate all the comments. It would have pleased my Tsawa Lama to read them, to know that his teaching and instructions to me have not gone unheeded and that the result is what he intended. He once shared with me an old Tibetan proverb:which prompted a years-long, on-going discussion of the matter: "You can't have religion without politics or politics without religion". This fundamentally flawed idea is the sand upon which the idea of mixing religion and politics is based. It is always a bad idea, always produces negativity, and is an anathema  to any sort of spiritual practice. I will share this teaching of my Lama. It is one he repeated to me countless times.

   "It does not matter what anyone thinks of you or your practice."

Respectfully,   Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan

Zach

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2011, 10:41:18 PM »
Thanks Venerable your advise is well heeded.  :)

Helena

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2011, 06:16:45 AM »
I love reading these words by Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan.

They really lift me up and inspire me.

I can't thank you enough for having this here.
Helena

Lineageholder

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Re: MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2011, 08:35:07 AM »

   "It does not matter what anyone thinks of you or your practice."

While this is true, it does matter if that person is the Dalai Lama and is turning people away from Dorje Shugden practice, causing the subsequent degeneration of the Ganden Tradition and demonisation of Dorje Shugden practitioners.