Whats happening with Dorje Shugden movie ?

[Zach]

Title says it all. Any news at all ? I heard about The filming for Lama micheals documentary lineage has production already started...what exactly is going on I can wait to watch it ! 

[DharmaSpace]

Zach the last I know is the video
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=6717
Lama Michael visiting Shar gaden and Serpom for the shooting. The trailer for the documentary is so cool.
Can't wait to watch it too.

[Losang_Tenpa]

I have been told that the Dorje Shugden movie, not related to the documentary by Lama Michael has been shelved temporarily. I know a couple people involved, and from what I gather the movie never got beyond the initial planing stage.

[Mana]

Is there more sources that this movie has been shelved? What are the sources please? Any more information?

In the past we have received emails asking us why the group involved in the movie do not respond to emails and also offers of sponsorship. We were not able to answer.

Mana

[Losang_Tenpa]

My only sources are 2 of the people that came here to Shar Gaden to work on the project. They told me that the project was shelved after consulting the oracle in Lumbini about the project. The oracle apparently told them to wait until the time was more favorable.

The project has not been abandoned, only shelved temporarily. I will see if I can get more information.

[Mana]

My only sources are 2 of the people that came here to Shar Gaden to work on the project. They told me that the project was shelved after consulting the oracle in Lumbini about the project. The oracle apparently told them to wait until the time was more favorable.

The project has not been abandoned, only shelved temporarily. I will see if I can get more information.

Thank you for the information.

The oracles of Dorje Shugden are very accurate and beyond question.

Mana

[Zach]

My only sources are 2 of the people that came here to Shar Gaden to work on the project. They told me that the project was shelved after consulting the oracle in Lumbini about the project. The oracle apparently told them to wait until the time was more favorable.

The project has not been abandoned, only shelved temporarily. I will see if I can get more information.

Hmmm okay Duke could you perhapes seek futher info ? As to anything the oracle specifically said regarding such ? 

[WisdomBeing]

how disappointing that the movie is delayed but i trust the oracle so i guess if the time isn't right, it isn't right.

The last i heard was that it was also very dangerous for the people involved in the movie - so they were keeping the group tight and small. I also asked them if they needed funding and they didn't respond. I saw that as a good thing though, in that they weren't greedy for money. My friend thought it was a bit weird that they didn't want donations though because every project needs finance. Oh well.

Duke - yes - do keep us posted....

cheers.

[Lineageholder]

I'm glad the WSS didn't have to consult an oracle before taking action against the Dalai Lama, otherwise perhaps the poor monks in India would be suffering more than they already are.

It's better to rely on wisdom than oracular pronouncements.

[thaimonk]

Well the Dalai Lama went 'against' Trijang Rinpoche who practiced and encouraged Dorje Shugden.

Some of you criticize the oracle which Trijang Rinpoche created, consulted and encouraged.

Some of you and the Dalai Lama both criticize Trijang Rinpoches activities.

[thaimonk]

Btw, it was Dorje Shugden through the oracle who advised and encouraged the formation of a seperate institution which have become Serpom and Shar Gaden. If it wasn't for the oracular pronouncements, the monks would be wandering the streets and the sufferings would be beyond what our comfort zones can imagine.

The oracle of Gaden was predicted and blessed by Zong Rinpoche. He is a student of Zong Ladrang and his name is Tenzin Choepel. He resides at Gaden Tensu Ling the centre of H.E. Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche in the USA.

The oracle in Taiwan was created, blessed and instituted by Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang (previous). The Oracle monk was a member of Bompra house now Serpom Monastery. His father was the official oracle of Sera Mey in Tibet.

The deities that takes trance of both Gaden and Sera oracle monks are KING DORJE SHUGDEN HIMSELF and Kache Marpo.

The wisdom of Dorje Shugden and Kache Marpo is beyond any of our wisdoms. If we do not have an opportunity to consult them, we do the best we can. If we can consult them, why not?

I would consult them anytime I can when my wisdom on an issue does not suffice. If you do not like the oracles created by Zong and Trijang Rinpoche, then don't say anything against them. They are the enlightened products of our lineage lamas.

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Thaimonk,

i guess some people don't believe in the oracles just like they don't believe in the tulkus such as HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Zong Rinpoche. I am trying to wrap my head around the concept that I believe my own wisdom is higher than anyone else's. It's not a case of lack of self-confidence or self-esteem, but i definitely know that i cannot trust my own judgment on spiritual matters.

Of course we make the best decisions we can with the information we have when we don't have access to someone with clairvoyance. However, should we have privileged access to an oracle who is not just anyone but who has been trained by a high Lama and proven over time to be accurate, and taking trance of none other than the Great King himself, then we should really be grateful rather than critical. I wish i had the karma to meet such a holy being! Can you imagine what it'd be like to be in Dorje Shugden's presence! Wow!

[thaimonk]

I'm glad the WSS didn't have to consult an oracle before taking action against the Dalai Lama, otherwise perhaps the poor monks in India would be suffering more than they already are.

It's better to rely on wisdom than oracular pronouncements.

Why would friends attack my belief system that is upheld by our lineage lamas. Wss and NKT have radically different views about oracles (and tulkus) and you criticize it constantly instead of leaving it alone. I and they (WSS and NKT) are very different and I do not share their views. If they are trying to help our lineage, then why do you, a supporter of them, attack what is well establised in our lineage. If you do not agree, then your lineage and mine are different. I prescribe to Trijang Rinpoche's lineage which accept oracles and not criticize them with projected false results if we follow oracles. Shar Gaden is doing very well and they are following an oracle.

[Lineageholder]

I apologise if I caused offence, my post was somewhat harsh and uncalled for.

Both you and I have different views when it comes to oracles.  I'm just aware that the Nechung oracle, for example has been part of the problem regarding Dorje Shugden.  The Dalai Lama relies heavily on oracles, it seems, and this seems to have exacerbated his loss of faith in Dorje Shugden.  I'm also aware that Buddha Shakyamuni and Buddha Vajradhara never taught reliance on oracles, but many people argue they never taught Dorje Shugden either so who am I to say whether this is a valid practice or not.

We are both Dorje Shugden practitioners and we follow different traditions, it's not right for me find fault with your beliefs, so once again please accept my apologies, I won't mention oracles again.  Peace.

[thaimonk]

I apologise if I caused offence, my post was somewhat harsh and uncalled for.

Both you and I have different views when it comes to oracles.  I'm just aware that the Nechung oracle, for example has been part of the problem regarding Dorje Shugden.  The Dalai Lama relies heavily on oracles, it seems, and this seems to have exacerbated his loss of faith in Dorje Shugden.  I'm also aware that Buddha Shakyamuni and Buddha Vajradhara never taught reliance on oracles, but many people argue they never taught Dorje Shugden either so who am I to say whether this is a valid practice or not.

We are both Dorje Shugden practitioners and we follow different traditions, it's not right for me find fault with your beliefs, so once again please accept my apologies, I won't mention oracles again.  Peace.

Dear Lineageholder,

Kyabje Zong Rinpoche mentioned many times that the Nechung oracle is unreliable. But he mentioned many times under his examination that the Dorje Shugden oracle of Gaden is very accurate. Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche both relied on the Dorje Shugden oracles completely. You can read up on Trijang Rinpoche's bio. Shar Gaden and the great lamas such as Dagom Rinpoche, Geshe Tendar, Gonsar Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Serpom Monastery, Zemey Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche, Domo Geshe all trusted the Dorje Shugden oracles. One of the most famous and well known oracles of Dorje Shugden was in Domo Geshe Rinpoche's own Monastery in Tibet then India.

Just because Nechung is unreliable, does not mean it extends to Dorje Shugden oracles. Remember, Nechung was an unenlightened evil spirit tamed and still is mischievous. Dorje Shugden is a direct emanation of Manjushri. The beings taking trance in the oracle monks MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE. One is an evil spirit bound by oath and forced to 'help'. While Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being who takes trance of oracles from his immeasurable compassion.

I agree with you Nechung's pronouncements has greatly added to the ban and the strife millions of us experience because of the ban. I would never consult or trust Nechung Oracle. Never. But I would 100% trust the Dorje Shugden oracles because my lineage lamas trusts them.

I am so glad you are coming to terms that we have different belief systems. I appreciate this tremendously. I am so glad that you mention we belong to the same protector because you are right. You will have your tradition/lama and I will have mine. They are both not wrong, just a different approach. Your tradition do not accept oracles, tulkus, etc, mine does. Who is right? After all, we both pretty much believe what we believe because of our teachers. Both our teachers cannot be wrong although their methods differ tremendously. That is ok. We are the products of our lamas/traditions. So if you criticize what I believe, what would you like me to do? Say what my lama taught me is wrong? It would be the same for you.

What you have written here today has Geshe Kelsang's blessings coming through your mindstream. You are showing me how great his teachings are by your words and open attitude expressed here. You are writing with acceptance of our different beliefs and you are becoming ok with it. I commend you and thank you.

As spiritual 'children' of Dorje Shugden sharing the same lineage lamas, we have more in common and more to share than not. I will continue to post, write, ask re oracles, Dalai Lama, Tulkus, NKT/Geshe Kelsang, Dharamsala, etc, BUT IT IS NOT MEANT TO HURT YOU. Please do not take it as so.

I appreciate what you have wrote and I thank you.

Thaimonk