Ex Abbots expelled/Lamas Targetted

[LosangKhyentse]

Dalai Lama's visit to Gaden/Drepung Feb 2011

1. In a private meeting with Abbots/Ex Abbots, Dalai Lama mentioned the ex abbot of Gyume Tantric College (who hails from Gaden Jangtze) hasn't come to see him for a few years already. Doesn't come for teachings. With that mention, the Abbot of Gaden Jangtze wrote a letter to Gyume Kensur Rinpoche in France expelling him from Gaden Jangtze Monastery immediately. No ex abbot or abbot has ever been expelled in Gaden's history.

The abbot of Jangtze was so frightened and eager to please the Dalai Lama in any way he can he expelled Gyume Kensur on that basis alone.  Dalai Lama could have stopped the expulsion easily, but he didn't. A noteworthy point is the Gyume Kensur is the Guru of the Abbot of Jangtze. Disciples have to expel Gurus these days in such political uncertainty. Gyume Kensur continues to reside in France.

In time Gyume Kensur would have ascended the throne to be Jangtze Choeje Rinpoche (Dharma Lord of the North) and then to the Gaden Tripa Throne. Now it is not possible with his expulsion.

2. In Drepung Dalai Lama mentioned that there are some Tulkus and Lamas who play two faces. In front of the Dalai Lama they claimed to have given up Dorje Shugden while secretly practicing from behind. It was a disturbing statement. The monks mentioned it was aimed at Jampa Rinpoche and Denma Locho Rinpoche.

Jampa Rinpoche is a direct disciple of the previous Ling Rinpoche, strong Shugden practitioner, known to be a scholar and very dedicated to the Monastery. Jampa Rinpoche is already in his 70's. It was observed the monks of Shar Gaden Monastery quietly went to Jampa Rinpoche's house (Labrang) to receive teachings. Jampa Rinpoche of course should not have any connections to Shar Gaden. Based on this, he is suspected now.

Denma Locho Rinpoche fell from grace of the Dalai Lama's favour because he went to Taiwan to Serkong Tritul Rinpoche's centre and was photographed with their members. Tritul Rinpoche has been banned by Tibetan Govt and expelled from Gaden Jangtze where he is from. Any associations with Serkong Tritul Rinpoche is very 'dangerous' in relations to the Tibetan Govt. If you associate with Serkong Tritul or his centre (due to a few factors of which one is their Shugden practice), you will be watched, suspected and eventually confirmed to have Shugden ties.

3. There was around 500 Indian police deployed during the Dalai Lama's stay in Gaden/Drepung. There were four top brass police officers who stayed throughout and were the guests of Shar Gaden Monastery. Shar Gaden played host to these high ranking officers.

Good to update, no untowardness or negative circumstances occured to Shar Gaden during the Dalai Lama's visit.

 

TK

[jessicajameson]

It's good to hear that nothing bad happened in Shar Gaden or to Shugdenpas during HHDL's stay in Gaden.

It's really sad though, to read that even the elderly monks are not 'spared' by the TGIE's. Even on a samsaric level, if there was a 70 y/o man standing in a trial he/she would be treated more leniently. No Shugdenpa is spared by the TGIE it seems...

Whenever I read things that seem so terrible, I can't help but wonder if this is all planned.... I mean, reading about how Gyume Kensur Rinpoche got expelled by his own student. Is this the first in Buddhist history? If these teachers are so highly attained, would they not have the foresight to see things that will happen and hence avoid it? Or was it all planned out?

Or even with Denma Locho Rinpoche taking photos in Serkong Tritul Rinpoche's centre. Wouldn't he have known that it's dangerous to do such a thing?

Are all these highly-attained being working together, or are they really all mistakes that got them in "trouble"?

[Big Uncle]

Or even with Denma Locho Rinpoche taking photos in Serkong Tritul Rinpoche's centre. Wouldn't he have known that it's dangerous to do such a thing?

Are all these highly-attained being working together, or are they really all mistakes that got them in "trouble"?

Denma Locho Rinpoche is a High Lama and quite a senior monk, he probably was unaware of the seriousness of the connection until TGIE came down hard on him. It is really sad and a sure sign of our degenerate times! Who would imagine disciples singling out their Gurus to be expelled from the monastery. It sounds almost like the cultural revolution of China. It is really really disturbing and on top of that, Lamas who play two faces? Come on! Almost every other Lama, Tulku, Rinpoche and Geshe has had connections directly or indirectly with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and other great Dorje Shugden Lamas. As for Jampa Rinpoche giving teachings to monks from Shar Gaden, I think he is a very kind Lama to risk his reputation like this... May all of us have this courage.

[triesa]

The abbot of Jangtze was so frightened and eager to please the Dalai Lama in any way he can he expelled Gyume Kensur on that basis alone.  Dalai Lama could have stopped the expulsion easily, but he didn't. A noteworthy point is the Gyume Kensur is the Guru of the Abbot of Jangtze. Disciples have to expel Gurus these days in such political uncertainty. Gyume Kensur continues to reside in France.


TK

Disciples expelling Gurus..........What an era we are living in!!! Perhaps the abbot of Jangtse would like to re-write the "50 stanzes of Guru Devotion"

It is extremely sad that being politically right has so much power over spiritual righteousness. The abbott of Jangtze is like a shoeshine boy, to me, it is severe degeneration.

[DSFriend]

Thanks TK for sharing with us on the latest inside news of Dalai Lama in Gaden. I had wondered how things went. It's good that there weren't any mishaps or violence.

Could it be that he expelled his Guru for the sake of the many monks in the monastery, so that no "problems" are inflicted? I find it hard to believe that it was an easy task to do,... to expel his own Guru! I believe that in his mind, he did not expel his Guru...

[Roberto]

Wow, interesting news. HHDL approves of expelling the teachers of Dharma throught an acceptance of silence.

Anti-shugden Teachers teach pro-shugden followers... amazing!

An environment of suspicion and intrigue, that even the students would give up their teachers, ultimate results no attainement. With so many Lamas/tulkus that have the practice, or continue the practice, it would be a sad day that all were expelled. I would say all of Gaden would be out, as these lineage lamas pabongka, trijang, ling, zong have taught many many of todays teachers... perhaps thats why it only stopped at the ex.abbot huh!?

Good to note that nothing happened to Shar Gaden during HHDL stay nearby.

[DSFriend]

So many illustrious lamas and tulkus seems to be living away from their main monasteries of many lifetimes. New monasteries are being built all over the world. Now Ex Abbot who have served the sangha been expelled.

Could this be the beginning of the manifestation of a new kadampa lineage with Dorje Shugden?

[Helena]

Ex-Abbots expelled and Lamas tied with Dorje Shugden practice will be targeted.

Monks have been expelled and that's how we have Shar Gaden and Serpom now.

As more high Lamas and Abbots are forced out, they will undoubtedly continue to practice wherever they are established or can establish.

Sounds like a beginning of a new tradition with Dorje Shugden...perhaps the resurection of the Guru Tree that DOES include Dorje Shugden, as it should have been all along. 

[Big Uncle]

So many illustrious lamas and tulkus seems to be living away from their main monasteries of many lifetimes. New monasteries are being built all over the world. Now Ex Abbot who have served the sangha been expelled.

Could this be the beginning of the manifestation of a new kadampa lineage with Dorje Shugden?

That is an intriguing thought and I think the only logical development for Dorje Shugden practice as the Dalai Lama continue to suppress us, practitioners. I believe Serpom and Shar Gaden will be forefront in the development of this new Dorje Shugden lineage. However, it would be good if more Tulkus and brave Lamas like Jampa Rinpoche who would risk their reputation by passing down valuable teachings and lineages to these courageous monks. In the end, this split will only be temporary- the practice after all will become mainstream.

[jessicajameson]

So many illustrious lamas and tulkus seems to be living away from their main monasteries of many lifetimes. New monasteries are being built all over the world. Now Ex Abbot who have served the sangha been expelled.

Could this be the beginning of the manifestation of a new kadampa lineage with Dorje Shugden?

You know what Big Uncle says sounds interesting: it does sound like the Chinese cultural revolution! What happened because of that? Dharma got spread out into the world. As harsh as it sounds (and I was part of a Free Tibet protest, so please no "you don't think about the tibetan people's suffering" response), without the Chinese invasion dharma would have stayed and remained in Tibet. Due to the invasion it is now available even where I am, in Toronto.

With monks being expelled from the monasteries because they are pro-DS - DS will spread...far and wide. Like what DSfriend has written, DS monasteries are being built around the world!

[WisdomBeing]

just curious - when Tsongkhapa set up the Gelugpa school - was there resistance to a new school or tradition of Buddhism?

Though i guess there was no controversy, unlike Dorje Shugden today.

With a belief in impermanence though, i do think that whatever is most conducive for Tsongkhapa's tradition to spread - whether by a new Dorje Shugden lineage or not - Dorje Shugden will create the causes for it to manifest...

[Helena]

I think with anything new and anything that changes an existing "comfort zone" will be met with difficulty, obstacles (within or external) and resistance, to say the least.

If I recall correctly, before the establishment of the Yellow Hat tradition - monastic code of conduct was not uphold and as disciplined.

Lama Tsongkhapa created strict monastic discipline of celibacy and etc in the Gelug School of Buddhism to counter the "loose' moral values of ordained folks at that time.

So, I don't imagine it was all received with wide open arms - judging from how a normal person would view it as his or her freedom has been curbed or compromised.

If anyone has more to share, please do.

We can all learn so much here by sharing.

I am always grateful for all the learning I receive from this Forum and website.

[Big Uncle]

just curious - when Tsongkhapa set up the Gelugpa school - was there resistance to a new school or tradition of Buddhism?

Though i guess there was no controversy, unlike Dorje Shugden today.

With a belief in impermanence though, i do think that whatever is most conducive for Tsongkhapa's tradition to spread - whether by a new Dorje Shugden lineage or not - Dorje Shugden will create the causes for it to manifest...

Dear WisdomBeing,

I don't know if there were any resistance during the lifetime of Lama Tsongkhapa but there were resistance after his passing into Parinirvana. I think during Lama Tsongkhapa's time, his students and monasteries weren't officially a new tradition. It was his disciples that formulated his teachings into a new lineage.

Before the Fifth Dalai Lama was discovered and during the Panchen Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen's time (4th Panchen Lama), the Tsangpa kings seized power in Tibet. Unfortunately, they were patrons of the Karma Kagyu tradition and somehow, the king fell ill and he seemed to blame and bore a grudge against the Dalai Lama. Thereafter, he suppressed the fledgling Gelug institutions except Tashi Lhunpo because he still had some respect of Panchen Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen. This was a crucial moment because the Gelug monasteries were in danger.

The Fifth Dalai Lama was already recognised by the Panchen Lama but the Tsangpa king forbade his enthronement in Lhasa. Things turned around when the Mongols arrived on the scene and allied themselves with the Fifth Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. In the end, the Mongols drove the Tsangpa king out of Lhasa and defeated them.

[DSFriend]

Source : http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=6620
Referring to an excerpt from "The Dangers of Mixing Religion and Politics"

One example of how the Fifth Dalai Lama regarded maintenance of his political power as more important than his duty as a Buddhist practitioner was his efforts to destroy the power of two important officials whom he considered to be rivals to his political authority. (These events are described below in Chapter 8.) When they took refuge in Tashi Lhunpo Monastery, the monastic seat of his own Spiritual Guide, the Fifth Dalai Lama raised an army to attack it. He dismissed his Spiritual Guide’s attempts at conciliation; and some years later, in an unprecedented act of public disrespect, the Fifth Dalai Lama did not even attend his Spiritual Guide’s funeral.

Now, dear forum posters, ...please refrain from going on a rampant and engage in lama bashing. The intention of this information is for us, with an open mind to consider logically and see it from different view points. If the 5th Dalai Lama was so wrong in his actions, then how could the 5th incarnate back to be the 6th and so forth till now.

No one is above the law of karma.

What happened during the time of the Fifth is quite similar to what's happening now, with the Ex Abbot being expelled, it's about the samaya with the Guru.

In Vajrayana, samaya with our Guru is pinnacle to bring about any results from our practice. What will happen to the Abbots, Ex Abbots, Dalai Lama who had that private meeting to discuss about the Ex Abbot from Gyume, and to expel him. I find it hard to believe that they engaged in schism. So many lamas are being targeted...most of all the Gelug high lamas are being put down as most are practitioners of Dorje Shugden.

 

[Zach]

Source : http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=6620
Referring to an excerpt from "The Dangers of Mixing Religion and Politics"

One example of how the Fifth Dalai Lama regarded maintenance of his political power as more important than his duty as a Buddhist practitioner was his efforts to destroy the power of two important officials whom he considered to be rivals to his political authority. (These events are described below in Chapter 8.) When they took refuge in Tashi Lhunpo Monastery, the monastic seat of his own Spiritual Guide, the Fifth Dalai Lama raised an army to attack it. He dismissed his Spiritual Guide’s attempts at conciliation; and some years later, in an unprecedented act of public disrespect, the Fifth Dalai Lama did not even attend his Spiritual Guide’s funeral.

Now, dear forum posters, ...please refrain from going on a rampant and engage in lama bashing. The intention of this information is for us, with an open mind to consider logically and see it from different view points. If the 5th Dalai Lama was so wrong in his actions, then how could the 5th incarnate back to be the 6th and so forth till now.
 

Perhapes He didnt reincarnate, I remember being told that there was a secret biography of Guntang rinpoche was it ? Whom claimed that only one Incarnation in the entire lineage of the Dalai lamas had been Avaloketishvara, and that some where manifestations of the 16 arhants and beyond that inauthentic.
Looking from a logical point of view would one consider raising an army and attacking monastrys infitting with Buddhist morale discipline ? Vinaya, refuge, Bodhisattva and Tantric Morale disciplines all have restraints against harming others do they not.
There may well be some Far-looking crazy wisdom that see's the end effects of immediate action...But they certainly do not make the person whom practise them look appealing as one who fulfills the requirements of a spiritual guide.