Dorje Shugden, the 15th Dalai Lama, and China

[Helena]

Agree with what you brought up, Beggar.

As long as efforts and resources are put into restoring and maintaining Spiritual or Religious Places, then people can always make a connection with spirituality and religion.

Humans born and die every day, every generation but these buildings and spiritual places, if kept well and preserved will stay on long after we are all dead and gone.

Spiritual tradition, lineage and practice can only survive if there are spiritual institutions around that allow people to come and learn, make connection and continue to cultivate the spirituality itself.

With buildings, there is no place any sangha can congregate, nurture one another or nurture others, learn, support one another, preserve the teachings, house the holy relics, and etc.

In this respect, I am glad that the Chinese are doing something to preserve these ancient and spiritual places.

In other countries, many spiritual places were destroyed or are being destroyed and will be lost forever.

 

[vajrastorm]

As they say, the end justifies the means. Whoever has been responsible for promoting Dorje Shugden in China, be it the Dalai Lama or even Dorje Shugden himself through their enlightened skilful means, the fact remains that Dorje Shugden practice is very popular in China.

The Chinese government is supporting the Protector as can be seen in their preservation of Trode Khangsar and in the thangka of Dorje Shugden behind the Chinese government –backed Panchen Lama. Now that China is undoubtedly going to be the most powerful economic and political force in the world, Dharmapala Dorje Shugden is going to be the most powerful protector of Buddhadharma in the world for the benefit of all beings.

Yes, I echo Beggar’s hope that Dharma teachings take strong root in China and China will once again resume the close link it once had with Lama Tsongkhapa and the Gelug lineage .

[pgdharma]

It is rejoicing news to know that Trode Kangsar is well taken care of and protected by the Chinese. With this kind of support from the chinese government, let us pray that Lama Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden practices will increase and spread far and wide from China!!!!

[DSFriend]

Yes, I echo Beggar’s hope that Dharma teachings take strong root in China and China will once again resume the close link it once had with Lama Tsongkhapa and the Gelug lineage .

Very good point which you brought up. Quite a few of my friends are not aware that Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings has a close link with China. They thought that Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings are only practiced in Old Tibet. It is interesting how Dorje Shugden, protector of Nagarjuna's Madhyamika is making his way into China and the rest of the world so quickly in the past 30 odd years.

[Helena]

Ditto! 

Kinda goes all around the world just to come back home 

May everyone come under the Protection of Dorje Shugden.

[DSFriend]

(2) A few years ago, some monks went to Gaden Monastery Tibet and destroyed the Dorje Shugden statue, the monks were arrested and sentenced with heavy terms, accused of belonging to the Dalai Lama's clique, and disturbing religious freedom (yes, in this case China is adamant about it). A new Dorje Shugden statue was swiftly resurrected and it stands till today, and there is even Chinese PLA (People Liberation Army) watching over the Dorje Shugden chapel in Gaden Monastery Tibet since then, he must be very important to the Chinese, because no other Buddha/protector statue in Tibet (not even Jowo!) get to enjoy this special treatment! A personal PLA bodyguard!!!

I've reread this again and still can't get over it... I'm glad i'm not over it
Who could have imagined CHINA taking a "stand" for a deity who so happened to be Dorje Shugden! Amazing.

[Ensapa]

Oh wow! Oh whee! This is such a beautiful news! And I cannot believe it has been buried back here since forever. I am quite excited to read about this because it proves one thing: that Dorje Shugden is being backed up by China and that if the Chinese dont think he is bad (they are very particular people and they are famous for being exhaustive in whatever they do) and this is a clear and definite sign that CTA cannot control everything.

A few signs (but definitely not limited to only these few) pointing to the fact that China supports Dorje Shugden:

(1) Trode Kangsar, the House of Dorje Shugden (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=298), stands tall in the heart of Lhasa till today, if there is to be such a Dorje Shugden chapel/temple somewhere else, it will surely be stoned daily and most probably burnt down by now. But nobody dare to touch Trode Kangsar, even though it is at the center of the Tibetans itself (Lhasa). Why? Most likely they are being warned that Big Brother (China) is keeping an eagle eye over the well-being of Trode Kangsar, thus nobody dare to lay a finger on it.
Communist China protecting a Tibetan Deity? wow. This is completely new. They even want to regulate and control the Catholic Church, but why are they protecting even a Buddha? Is this really happening? It could be two things: either that the communists are finally turning to Buddhists or that Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he can tame even people who are without religion. They're communists, how can they believe that it will shorten the Dalai Lama's life and take that seriously? think about it?

(2) A few years ago, some monks went to Gaden Monastery Tibet and destroyed the Dorje Shugden statue, the monks were arrested and sentenced with heavy terms, accused of belonging to the Dalai Lama's clique, and disturbing religious freedom (yes, in this case China is adamant about it). A new Dorje Shugden statue was swiftly resurrected and it stands till today, and there is even Chinese PLA (People Liberation Army) watching over the Dorje Shugden chapel in Gaden Monastery Tibet since then, he must be very important to the Chinese, because no other Buddha/protector statue in Tibet (not even Jowo!) get to enjoy this special treatment! A personal PLA bodyguard!!!
Disturbing religious freedom?! Why is it that CTA accuses China of not allowing religious freedom just because they dont allow the Dalai Lama to be talked in Tibet...if there is no religious freedom it should be that China bans the worshipping of every other deity, logically. So why is it that China loves Dorje Shugden so much when they suppress the religious freedom of others? Is it because Dorje Shugden is too well established there?

Just think, most likely China will choose their own 15th Dalai Lama, and visualize image like the one below being taken "OFFICIALLY" and disseminate all over China and to the world, how impactful it will be...

[WisdomBeing]

Communist China protecting a Tibetan Deity? wow. This is completely new. They even want to regulate and control the Catholic Church, but why are they protecting even a Buddha? Is this really happening? It could be two things: either that the communists are finally turning to Buddhists or that Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he can tame even people who are without religion. They're communists, how can they believe that it will shorten the Dalai Lama's life and take that seriously? think about it?

Much as I believe that Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he can tame anyone, including communists, I do not think that this is the reason why the Chinese authorities are protecting Trode Kangsar. Are the Chinese turning to Buddhism? I do wish it so but I am also a little skeptical of that notion. What I think is the main reason behind the ‘protection’ of Dorje Shugden is simply - political expediency.

Because the Dalai Lama is so vehemently against this practice – at least outwardly. Because of the Dalai Lama’s very public ban on Dorje Shugden, Trode Kangsar is still standing. Because of the ban, there are huge statues of Dorje Shugden in monasteries in Tibet, such as the Panchen Lama’s seat – Tashi Lhunpo. Because of the ban, Dorje Shugden practice is encouraged and endorsed in all monasteries in Tibet.
Now, would all this have happened if the Dalai Lama had NOT banned Dorje Shugden?

[Ensapa]

Much as I believe that Dorje Shugden is so powerful that he can tame anyone, including communists, I do not think that this is the reason why the Chinese authorities are protecting Trode Kangsar. Are the Chinese turning to Buddhism? I do wish it so but I am also a little skeptical of that notion. What I think is the main reason behind the ‘protection’ of Dorje Shugden is simply - political expediency.
Even if it is political expediency, why would China believe in religion just to go against the Dalai Lama? Political or not, they are doing a better job that CTA. At least they dont ban or ostracize anyone that practices a deity they dont like, they just imprison anyone who shows allegiance for the Dalai Lama but that is very obvious and they make it very clear. Unlike CTA who calls it a religious advice when it is a hardline ban. So funny that CTA is more pretentious than their unreligious enemy.
Because the Dalai Lama is so vehemently against this practice – at least outwardly. Because of the Dalai Lama’s very public ban on Dorje Shugden, Trode Kangsar is still standing. Because of the ban, there are huge statues of Dorje Shugden in monasteries in Tibet, such as the Panchen Lama’s seat – Tashi Lhunpo. Because of the ban, Dorje Shugden practice is encouraged and endorsed in all monasteries in Tibet.
Now, would all this have happened if the Dalai Lama had NOT banned Dorje Shugden?
Yes it might be, but why is it that Communist China adopts Buddhism and indulges in Buddhism for the sake of going against a political enemy? Why would they go this far to go against Dalai Lama? is it because they believe in his power and decided to level the playing field? And China plays in like a marionette where the Dalai Lama pulls the strings....

That is what I have thought of before, but on further rationale, how can it be that China would sacrifice their core beliefs of communism for the sake of going against the Dalai Lama? Surely, something is more is in play.

[kris]

1) I must say I am very happy to hear that Trode Kangsar has special bodyguard service by PLA It has been talked many times why the current (14th) HH Dalai Lama is being exiled, and that is the spread Dorje Shugden. Whatever the process is, it seems like it has achieved the objective.

2) There has been much speculation about 15th Dalai Lama. It is said the the current 14th Dalai Lama has said that He will not "come back" meaning there will be no 15th Dalai Lama; It is also said that He will reincarnate but will definitely NOT reincarnate in China... I wonder which is the "correct".. Personally if He choose not to come back, China will declare that He is back in China, and may be because of that, He choose to come back to counter the China government..

I think this is a bit too political and kind of deviate from the practices of Buddhism.. Let's focus on the Buddha's teaching on impermanence, generosity, etc...

[diablo1974]

I believe china will pick her own Dalai lama and plays an important role in the religious and tibetans community. He will also be given a seat (voting rights) in the yearly People congress too. Although at present the tibetans wont be taken in but in the next decade or so, i wont be surprise that more tibetans and chinese couples will get married and setup a family. With china fast moving economy, she will grow and is able to provide many opportunities to the tibetan people for them to give up the hope towards china independance. Stay tuned in the years to come.

[samayakeeper]

A few signs (but definitely not limited to only these few) pointing to the fact that China supports Dorje Shugden:

(1) Trode Kangsar, the House of Dorje Shugden (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=298), stands tall in the heart of Lhasa till today, if there is to be such a Dorje Shugden chapel/temple somewhere else, it will surely be stoned daily and most probably burnt down by now. But nobody dare to touch Trode Kangsar, even though it is at the center of the Tibetans itself (Lhasa). Why? Most likely they are being warned that Big Brother (China) is keeping an eagle eye over the well-being of Trode Kangsar, thus nobody dare to lay a finger on it.

(2) A few years ago, some monks went to Gaden Monastery Tibet and destroyed the Dorje Shugden statue, the monks were arrested and sentenced with heavy terms, accused of belonging to the Dalai Lama's clique, and disturbing religious freedom (yes, in this case China is adamant about it). A new Dorje Shugden statue was swiftly resurrected and it stands till today, and there is even Chinese PLA (People Liberation Army) watching over the Dorje Shugden chapel in Gaden Monastery Tibet since then, he must be very important to the Chinese, because no other Buddha/protector statue in Tibet (not even Jowo!) get to enjoy this special treatment! A personal PLA bodyguard!!!

Just think, most likely China will choose their own 15th Dalai Lama, and visualize image like the one below being taken "OFFICIALLY" and disseminate all over China and to the world, how impactful it will be...

1. Yes, I visited Trode Kangsar during the height of the ban, and yes, it stood undamaged until today.

2. It's rejoicing news to hear of this. China is so much tolerant than the Tibetan government in allowing religious freedom. And yet the Tibetan government and its cronies called themselves Buddhists?

Thank you for the visualized picture. To me, it's like an artist impression and yet some people said its fake.

[yontenjamyang]

Again we have to thanks the Dalai Lama for bestowing the Lord Dorje Shugden to China and the world at large. He is more popular then ever and hence be able to help more people since he emanated in our world. Such is the skill means of the Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen and the Dalai Lama (starting from the 5th) and Lama Tsongkhapa. The Buddhas plan for many future lifetimes and not just one lifetime. As the protector of this degenerate age, Lord Dorje Shugden is the most powerful and suitable due to our collective karma. I rejoice.

It is likely that we have a 15th Dalai Lama from China. More than even the chance of having a second 15th Dalai Lama chosen by the people of the 14th as the 14th has said he will be the last Dalai Lama. Having one or two 15th Dalai Lama is not a problem at all for me. Even if the 14th says he will be the last, China may chose a 15th, in which case it will be contested by Tibetan mostly. Avalokitesvara can manifest as many Dalai Lamas as is suitable and beneficial to sentient beings.

[vajratruth]

His Holiness The Dalai Lama is indeed wise and far-sighted. Even before China was able to exercise economic imperialism as she is showing signs of doing now, the Dalai Lama already foresaw that one day the global trade influence would shift to her. In an age where world dominance procured by warfare is frowned upon, a better and more effective way is to dominate the world by means of trade.

There is also little doubt that China will select and enthrone the next Dalai Lama and have in fact identified the candidiate for that role. His Holiness The Dalai Lama also knows that.

Soon the time will arrive when China will become the most powerful and influential nation in the world...with Tibetan Buddhism as its official religion, which will spread throughout the world with China's influence. Perhaps the Dalai Lama knew that all along too. Might that have been The Dalai Lama's objective  from the beginning - to create the causes for that to happen. That would undoubtedly be one of the most effective way to spread the Dharma.

Perhaps also, the Dalai Lama also understood very well an old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and realized the potency of a strategy built on that saying. But the Dalai Lama had no enemies with which His Holiness could execute such a strategy. And so perhaps The Dalai Lama set about creating two very powerful "enemies" knowing that an alliance would be forged in opposition to His Holiness's considerable influence.

Who can tell how a Buddha thinks and of course I am only dealing in speculation albeit one that offers  alternative explanations as to why Chenrezig has done all those illogical and harmful things to the Tibetan Cause and the practice of a great Protector whom The Dalai Lama himself embraced and wrote praises to. That Dorje Shugden is spreading in China and that a powerful nation now stand guard over Dorje Shugden's house is something we have to consider and analyze how this came about. Of all the illogical things, surely the most surprising would be His Holiness making an enemy of out China and then go on to tell His enemy precisely how to shorten Hos Holiness's life. But there you have it.

I think of Trijang Rinpoche's advice to keep supporting his disciple The Dalai Lama and I think of Trijang Rinpoche's Autobiography and I cannot help but think there is a great illusory play at work, and one that will result in Dorje Shugden being practiced all over the world and praised as The Great Protector of Dharma in our time.

[Ensapa]

1) I must say I am very happy to hear that Trode Kangsar has special bodyguard service by PLA It has been talked many times why the current (14th) HH Dalai Lama is being exiled, and that is the spread Dorje Shugden. Whatever the process is, it seems like it has achieved the objective.
This act alone means a lot: it means that the chinese are accepting of Dorje Shugden and they support him as a Dharma protector. You dont see that happening with Nechung's monastery in tibet, right?

2) There has been much speculation about 15th Dalai Lama. It is said the the current 14th Dalai Lama has said that He will not "come back" meaning there will be no 15th Dalai Lama; It is also said that He will reincarnate but will definitely NOT reincarnate in China... I wonder which is the "correct".. Personally if He choose not to come back, China will declare that He is back in China, and may be because of that, He choose to come back to counter the China government..
It is pretty obvious that HHDL said that to express his disappointment with people who claim to follow him but act in ways that contradict the Dharma, so why should he remain? Lets see if those people get it and change.

I think this is a bit too political and kind of deviate from the practices of Buddhism.. Let's focus on the Buddha's teaching on impermanence, generosity, etc...

Let's just leave the intricate political maneuvers to the high lamas who have the capacity and capability of managing it, and focus on our own personal transformations instead. That would be more beneficial in the long run.