Poisoning our own roots

[DSFriend]

Most of all the Gelugpa lineage lamas has been put down and suppressed. What will become of our spiritual practice if we poison our own roots?

Source : http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=3861

Pabongka Rinpoche and the Gelugpa Tradition

Pabongka Rinpoche (1878-1941AD) was one of the greatest Gelugpa Lamas of the past century. He possessed many spiritual realizations and was highly revered. He was the root Guru of both the 14th Dalai Lama’s own principal teachers, Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche; therefore, almost all the Dalai Lama’s Dharma knowledge comes from Pabongka Rinpoche.

His reputation is currently being besmirched by some detractors of Dorje Shugden, but there is an increasing amount of information about him becoming available on the Internet to show that this criticism is unfounded. This includes the new blog called “Scholars and Yogis Please Check!”, which has recently run a series of articles on Pabongka Rinpoche.

As the translator of his famous text Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand explains, Je Phabongkha had a profound and far-reaching influence on the Gelug tradition:
Pabongka Rinpoche was probably the most influential Gelug Lama of this century, holding all the important lineages of Sutra and Tantra, and passing them on to most of the important Gelug Lamas of the next two generations; the list of his oral discourses is vast in depth and breadth. He was also the root guru of the Kyabje Ling Rinpoche (1903-83AD), Senior Tutor of the Dalai Lama, Trijang Rinpoche, and many other highly respected teachers. His collected works occupy fifteen large volumes and over every aspect of Buddhism. If you have ever received a teaching from a Gelug Lama, you have been influenced by Pabongka Rinpoche.

Zong Rinpoche, also a highly regarded Gelug Lama, says on the blog mentioned above:
Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Ling Rinpoche were tutors to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. They taught His Holiness everything from basic teachings to advanced levels.

Kyabje Phabongka passed all of his lineages to Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang. He often said this in discourses. The purpose of this detailed exposition is to affirm the power of the lineage. If we lose faith in the lineage, we are lost.
We should remember the biographies of past and present teachers. We should never develop negative thoughts towards our root and lineage gurus.”

[Helena]

I do enjoy reading about High Lamas' Biographies, especially the great Masters.

They do inspire me immensely and give me so much hope.

Pabongkha Rinpoche is one of my All-TIME favourite. HIS picture is on my altar, along with Trijang Rinpoche.

I love them both.

What we have now came from them. We have spiritual practice now because these two great masters made it possible for the lineage to survive through the challenging times - with very little regard to their own personal comforts, security or even lives.

If we poison our roots, we are undoubtedly poisoning ourselves.

If we recognise and understand that without these roots in the first place, there will be no tree, no branch, no leaves, nothing to bear any fruit at all.

May I always be connected to the Dharma and meet great Lamas and Gurus life after life.

May I never be parted from them.

[DSFriend]

One of the requirements of engaging in Dorje Shugden practice is keeping clean samaya.

So then, what is it that causes people to be so quick to poison their own roots? Knowing what is at work in us and understanding the disbenefits perhaps will help us to steer away from danger zones?

[jessicajameson]

One of the requirements of engaging in Dorje Shugden practice is keeping clean samaya.

So then, what is it that causes people to be so quick to poison their own roots? Knowing what is at work in us and understanding the disbenefits perhaps will help us to steer away from danger zones?

I think it's arrogance; the mindset that we know better and the unwillingness to learn due to that arrogance. If we humbled ourselves down, make an attempt to study the work of holy masters such as Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche we would clearly see no fault in them, thereby, steer us away from poisoning our own roots.

It's true what you say DSFriend, that one of the requirements of engaging in Dorje Shugden's practice is to keep a clean samaya.

By keeping a clean samaya, we are able to gain the merits to be able to keep us on a spiritual path, increase our chances of being reborn near the Dharma, give us the chance to (in this life and future life times) meet a good guru etc.., conditions that are think will help stop practitioners from developing negative thoughts towards our lineage gurus or any gurus for that matter.

What do you think?

[Big Uncle]

Dear DSFriend,

I think most Tibetans are uneducated and when they hear of this ban, they take it as the supreme edict of Chenrezig himself. They don't ponder, they don't wonder the implications if they threaten a Shugdenpa. After all, they know very little Dharma and few people in power use that to their advantage by deliberately making info of Shugdenpas easily available to start a witch hunt. Some speak out and issue all manner of edicts that run counter to basic human rights. I think it is this herd behavior of the masses and a few individuals wanting to stand out to further their political career or have other ulterior motives to profit from this ban that makes them poison their own roots.

[triesa]

The very basis of Tibetan Buddhism relies on Guru Devotion. How does a practitioner begin to develop negative thoughts towards his/her lineage lamas and eventually criticise their own teachers? Is it a fickle mind, lack of knowledge, understanding and hence wisdom or is it a by product of the degenerated world?

I am on the same page as Big Uncle, that many practitioners are not knowledgable, or ignorant, in plain terms. They follow a teacher or a practice without much thorough understanding of what really entails. If they have received the teachings from a lineage master and they dare to say anything negative towards any lineage master, it shows that they dont understand the basis of Guru devotion.

If one can criticise their own teachers that this is right and that is wrong, then why need a teacher and why need a lineage? 

 

[beggar]

The biggest danger if we start to criticise our lineage teachers is that once we say that one is wrong, then we open up a big big possibility that every other teacher can also be wrong. Ask ourselves in the first place: what makes them "right" or "wrong" and who are we to decide? There are already countless scriptures, books and teachings about Guru devotion which explain to us clearly how to check our teachers and what to do if we have doubt (none of them advice us to criticise, abandon our teachers or speak negatively). So if we are yapping away, criticising and saying this lama is wrong or that lama is wrong.... then well, any lama can be wrong! Then we're in trouble again aren't we?

Then will we ever find a lama that is 100% right? And if all the lamas are wrong, even with all their attainments, rebirths, teachings and the benefit they have given to the world (e.g. pabongka rinpoche)  then how can we ever be sure that little old us can be right? If Pabongka Rinpoche can make a mistake, then so can we... If all the teachers could be wrong, and they trace all the way back to Buddha Shakyamuni, then Shakyamuni could be wrong too! then why are we even on this path? Why do we even take teachings from a teacher? It is very depressing to start thinking this way.

See, it never ends.

[triesa]

Along with what begger has said here, I have heard students from the same lineage critiicising each other's lama. I find this really childish and naive. Say for example, my lama and your lama are from the same lineage, but they may have different methods to convey the dharma to you and me, who could be very different in personality and character. So there is no justice to any lama if we as students, start to say your lama is not right to do this and that.

If buddha has 84000 ways to achieve enlightenment, then why can't a lama/teacher have different methods of bringing the dharma to anyone he comes across? Right or wrong is only based on perception of our very limited mind.

[DSFriend]

The very basis of Tibetan Buddhism relies on Guru Devotion. How does a practitioner begin to develop negative thoughts towards his/her lineage lamas and eventually criticise their own teachers? Is it a fickle mind, lack of knowledge, understanding and hence wisdom or is it a by product of the degenerated world?

I am on the same page as Big Uncle, that many practitioners are not knowledgable, or ignorant, in plain terms. They follow a teacher or a practice without much thorough understanding of what really entails. If they have received the teachings from a lineage master and they dare to say anything negative towards any lineage master, it shows that they dont understand the basis of Guru devotion.

If one can criticise their own teachers that this is right and that is wrong, then why need a teacher and why need a lineage? 

 

In the West, it's quite common that people are not comfortable with Guru Devotion...Even the word "Guru" makes some feel uncomfortable and  we use the title of "Lama" instead. Perhaps it's our arrogant ignorance at play?

In Tibet, where Guru Devotion is the culture, people don't bat an eyelid for following the instructions of their Gurus to the "T"! And perhaps don't see the need to seek for further information?

[Helena]

So, there's the risk of arrogance and there is the risk of ignorance. Both leads us all astray from the spiritual path.

Those in the West would tend to display arrogance, because they intellectualize everything. They run the risk of arrogance because they begin to think that they know more than their own teachers.

In Tibet, their culture and conditioning have left them almost blinded by pure faith - to the point that they do not question or seek more knowledge or information. They dwell in ignorance and place all responsibility on their teachers. It is as if they have stopped learning altogether because the teacher is there to spoon feed them everything and direct them.

The Westerners, on the other hand, tend to want to find out more information and knowledge in order to challenge others, or even their own teachers.

Both arrogance and ignorance will lead us to poison our own roots.

Hence, I can start to appreciate why Dorje Shugden arises to protect Nagarjuna's Middle View as taught by Lama Tsongkhapa.

The Middle Way is the path to true realization.

Now, I can understand why it is so important and precious that Dorje Shugden had to be the Guardian himself.

[DSFriend]

And if we were to be aware of our thoughts and actions, we do have both, "The West" and "Tibet" are inside us ... as we journey towards the real nature, Buddha nature!

And yes, just as how Helena shared, a Protector is crucial in helping us get to our destination. On a daily basis, we are bombarded with so many opportunities and being pulled/pushed to go every other direction other than towards the real nature.

With Dorje Shugden, he helps us find clarity as we look within to overcome and clear our inner obstacles.
How compassionate he is to help us purify the poisons!

[triesa]

Both arrogance and ignorance will lead us to poison our own roots.

Hence, I can start to appreciate why Dorje Shugden arises to protect Nagarjuna's Middle View as taught by Lama Tsongkhapa.

The Middle Way is the path to true realization.

Now, I can understand why it is so important and precious that Dorje Shugden had to be the Guardian himself.

Very well said Helena. I can't agree more!!!

[jessicajameson]

So, there's the risk of arrogance and there is the risk of ignorance. Both leads us all astray from the spiritual path.

Those in the West would tend to display arrogance, because they intellectualize everything. They run the risk of arrogance because they begin to think that they know more than their own teachers.

In Tibet, their culture and conditioning have left them almost blinded by pure faith - to the point that they do not question or seek more knowledge or information. They dwell in ignorance and place all responsibility on their teachers. It is as if they have stopped learning altogether because the teacher is there to spoon feed them everything and direct them.

How complicated. You could have the merits to be near Dharma, with a good teacher however not have the merits to receive the Dharma. HOW SCARY! Conditions are so right yet everything that is perceived is skewed.

It really gives a new meaning to "so near, yet so far".

In light of the topic at hand, I know this may sound like a daft question, but IF in the chance that we have a teacher that is not genuine, how would one even know?

I say this with no disrespect to any one out there, and we shouldn't start judging our gurus. but I'd just like to know this as I'm sure there are some people out there that might be really confused when analyzing a teacher to see if he/she is right for him.

Some of the teacher's actions are unexplainable, and can be perceived as wrong to us. However, they could very well just be the guru exercising their skillful methods. So how can one distinguish a teacher that is right or wrong for us?

[DSFriend]

In light of the topic at hand, I know this may sound like a daft question, but IF in the chance that we have a teacher that is not genuine, how would one even know?

This is a valid question...and many of us have at one point or another asked ourselves this question.

Especially in Vajrayana, the Guru plays a central role in our spiritual journey.

If we were to think back, we have trusted MANY people ever since young to learn from. These are considered our teachers....they are our parents, friends, enemies, strangers, school teachers etc.

I do believe the buddha nature in us does help us to distinguish what is beneficial and what is harmful for us. On this basis, I'd say that the influence towards positive and virtuous mind is a gauge of how genuine a teacher is in our spiritual path. 50 Stanzas of Guru devotion and the Lamrim also states the qualities a teacher should posses. These are important references for us.

[WoselTenzin]

Most of all the Gelugpa lineage lamas has been put down and suppressed. What will become of our spiritual practice if we poison our own roots?

Source : http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=3861

Pabongka Rinpoche and the Gelugpa Tradition

Pabongka Rinpoche (1878-1941AD) was one of the greatest Gelugpa Lamas of the past century. He possessed many spiritual realizations and was highly revered. He was the root Guru of both the 14th Dalai Lama’s own principal teachers, Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche; therefore, almost all the Dalai Lama’s Dharma knowledge comes from Pabongka Rinpoche.

His reputation is currently being besmirched by some detractors of Dorje Shugden, but there is an increasing amount of information about him becoming available on the Internet to show that this criticism is unfounded. This includes the new blog called “Scholars and Yogis Please Check!”, which has recently run a series of articles on Pabongka Rinpoche.

As the translator of his famous text Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand explains, Je Phabongkha had a profound and far-reaching influence on the Gelug tradition:
Pabongka Rinpoche was probably the most influential Gelug Lama of this century, holding all the important lineages of Sutra and Tantra, and passing them on to most of the important Gelug Lamas of the next two generations; the list of his oral discourses is vast in depth and breadth. He was also the root guru of the Kyabje Ling Rinpoche (1903-83AD), Senior Tutor of the Dalai Lama, Trijang Rinpoche, and many other highly respected teachers. His collected works occupy fifteen large volumes and over every aspect of Buddhism. If you have ever received a teaching from a Gelug Lama, you have been influenced by Pabongka Rinpoche.

Zong Rinpoche, also a highly regarded Gelug Lama, says on the blog mentioned above:
Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Ling Rinpoche were tutors to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. They taught His Holiness everything from basic teachings to advanced levels.

Kyabje Phabongka passed all of his lineages to Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang. He often said this in discourses. The purpose of this detailed exposition is to affirm the power of the lineage. If we lose faith in the lineage, we are lost.
We should remember the biographies of past and present teachers. We should never develop negative thoughts towards our root and lineage gurus.”

Looking at the track record of Pabongka Rinpoche, it can be said that he is instrumental for the survival of Tibetan Buddhism in the world today.  Being the root Guru of Ling Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche, Seramey Kensur Lobsang Tharchin and many other great lamas who in turn are root Lamas to most of the great Lamas in the Gelugpa tradition including the Dalai Lama himself who are spreading Tibetan Buddhism far and wide in the world today, it is evident that Pabongka Rinpoche must have very high attainments.  Say and criticize what they want about Pabongka Rinpoche, there is simply no comparison to the results he has achieved.  In this case, since he is a devoted Dorje Shugden practitioner, then Dorje Shugden must be extremely powerful.