Being sectarian just because we follow one path...?

[DSFriend]

The following is extracted from :
Source : http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=5878
Dorje Shugden in 3,211 words or less

One of the vows associated with the initiation into Dorje Shugden practice is that the practitioner will only study the Dharma of Je Tsongkhapa, and will not study or practice philosophy or ritual from any of the other three schools of Buddhism. One can easily see how this would be interpreted as Sectarianism.


Dorje Shugden is being blamed and practitioners accused of being sectarian just because we focus on the teachings of Je Tsongkhapa! I do get this remark ones in awhile and holding back from firing off a sarcastic remark sure can be a test of patience!

Where is the logic in this?! To start with, Je Tsongkhapa is an Enlightened being, prophesied by Buddha Shakyamuni that he will come to revive Dharma in this degenerate times. If anyone's a Buddhist, we would know of the 84000 methods to obtain happiness and liberation.

Now, let's then focus on all 84000 methods, in order to not be sectarian?? It's totally illogical.

And who says whatever else we are NOT practicing is considered bad. It doesn't mean just because we are Gelugpas, then the Kagyus/Sakyas/Ningmas are wrong or bad. Why should it be viewed that way?

View of duality at play?

[jessicajameson]

I thought that a Dorje Shugden practitioner may study the philosophy and rituals from the other three schools of Buddhism, BUT should focus more energy into the Gelug school??

[jessicajameson]

Sorry another question: If someone was from the Sakya lineage but had read up on Dorje Shugden, felt some connection and wanted to practice His practice - would he/she have to change schools... or like I wrote above, focus more energy into the Gelug school instead?

Thanks.

[Vajraprotector]

I thought that a Dorje Shugden practitioner may study the philosophy and rituals from the other three schools of Buddhism, BUT should focus more energy into the Gelug school??

That's what I thought too  I read about this from the transcript of a video of Zong Rinpoche, giving explanation before conferring Dorje Shugden initiations. (Video: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=7106 )

After receiving this Dorje Shugden initiation, you have to do puja once a month. Also, it is necessary to follow the commitment, and you have to make a commitment with the lineage and with the order.

So that means, for example you [might] receive teachings from different traditions but mainly, your practice, your focus, your energy [should be put] into this lineage, the Gelugpa lineage.

From: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1062.0

[Big Uncle]

I think it is not right to say that committing towards a tradition is sectarian. I believe that the initiation (sogtae) text was probably written and composed with Gelug practitioners in mind. If other traditions like the Sakyas had embraced Dorje Shugden in the past, I am sure their commitments would be to their lineage as well. So, the High Lamas of respective traditions just have to composed their own text to authenticate the initiation of Dorje Shugden within their own traditions. I believe that will one day happen and Dorje Shugden will become a truly universal Dharma Protector.

[beggar]

Yes, I've heard this accusation many times and read many things about Dorje Shugden practitioners (or somethings even Gelugpa practitioners in general) being sectarian because they do not study /practice the teachings of other schools.

This is completely illogical. Just because you focus on the teachings of your school it does not mean in any way that it is at the expense of another school. Yes, gelugpas may focus on the teachings of Je Tsongkhapa, but it does not mean that they put down, criticise, attack or do anything to the teachings or practitioners of other schools.

This is the same across the board in all schools. Sakya practitioners focus on the sakya teachings, and it would not be wrong for them if they choose not to take teachings from any of the other three schools. It is the same for the Nyingmas and for the Kagyus. There are so many sub-sects within the Kagyus - I am quite sure that many would focus on their own teachings and lineage and not take teachings from ALL the sects of the kagyus - does this make them sectarian too? I don't think so.

It is like, if you study in Harvard, you don't also need to go for teachings at Stanford, Princeton, NYU and UCLA. If you stayed only in Harvard and focused your entire study there, you aren't labelled an exclusivist or sectarian! Maybe, after you have graduated and you want to pursue further study, you might choose to go to another college to study. It is the same in the buddhist schools. If you are qualified, stable in your learning and of a high level of learning, then your teachers may advise that you take certain teachings from teachers of other schools. This is all very dependent on the student, his level of learning and what his teacher feels would be most beneficial for his learning. There is nothing sectarian about a student who chooses to stay with one teacher in his one monastery following only one lineage.

Believe it or not - many practitioners want to just PRACTICE and are not interested in the politics! It looks like the only ones being sectarian are the ones making the accusation.

[hope rainbow]

Sorry another question: If someone was from the Sakya lineage but had read up on Dorje Shugden, felt some connection and wanted to practice His practice - would he/she have to change schools... or like I wrote above, focus more energy into the Gelug school instead?

Thanks.

That is actually a good question indeed...
Dorje Shugden has obvious and strong connections with the sakyas, that is for sure.
Perhaps, we can see it like this, the doctrine of Lama Tsongkhapa countains ALL of the Buddha's teaching, therefore it would not make sense to label it a sectarian doctrine, it should actually be the contrary. Shouldn't it???
How can ANY buddhist school be sectarian anyway, it does not sound "buddhist" to be sectarian, in the sense of sectarian as "dogmatic or narrow-minded", two things that buddhist teachings are working against.
I like a lot what beggar just posted:
"It looks like the only ones being sectarian are the ones making the accusation."

[Helena]

Personally, it has nothing to do with sectarianism.

As it is, just studying or learning from one school is hard enough. Just mastering one simple practice from our Guru is already so challenging - how can we truly master when we do not concentrate or focus on one.

I do not think a lineage can be passed on from one generation to another if everyone becomes a "Jack of all trades but Master of None".

While we are still learning, it can get confusing and very challenging. If we keep hopping from one school or practice or path to another, how will we ever truly progress?

I think there is a real danger when we haven't mastered anything and we are so busy in picking up other practices.

Hence, following one path from beginning to the end would help us become masters of our path - whichever it is that we choose.

If Sakya-pa is the one for you, then great. Devote yourself to it and master it.

If Gelug-pa is the one for you, then do the same and may you truly transform.

In every school, a lama or Guru is sole responsible for the student.

If the student moves from one to another, then who is ultimately responsible for this student?

I believe, at the end of the day, it is really for the benefit of the student's spiritual progress and well-being to have one Guru, one path and go all the way until we reach Enlightenment.

That is the whole point, right?

[DSFriend]

I do not think a lineage can be passed on from one generation to another if everyone becomes a "Jack of all trades but Master of None".

certainly true for us who are controlled by the Monkey mind!

If Sakya-pa is the one for you, then great. Devote yourself to it and master it.

If Gelug-pa is the one for you, then do the same and may you truly transform.

In every school, a lama or Guru is sole responsible for the student.

If the student moves from one to another, then who is ultimately responsible for this student?

I believe, at the end of the day, it is really for the benefit of the student's spiritual progress and well-being to have one Guru, one path and go all the way until we reach Enlightenment.

That is the whole point, right?

Absolutely. The key is Guru Devotion...without it, where can we gain attainments.

[WisdomBeing]

Sectarianism is defined in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism) as "according to one definition, is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion or factions of a political movement.

The ideological underpinnings of attitudes and behaviors labeled as sectarian are extraordinarily varied. Members of a religious or political group may believe that their own salvation, or the success of their particular objectives, requires aggressively seeking converts from other groups; adherents of a given faction may believe that for the achievement of their own political or religious project their internal opponents must be purged."

From the above, my interpretation of sectarianism is that it only occurs if it creates any form of negative emotion about another group. As far as i can tell, personally i have not heard of a Dorje Shugden practitioner criticise another Buddhist school. The most virulent and frequently expressed criticism is aimed squarely at the most famous Gelugpa Lama in the world, HH the 14th Dalai Lama.

[beggar]

The most virulent and frequently expressed criticism is aimed squarely at the most famous Gelugpa Lama in the world, HH the 14th Dalai Lama.

Interestingly also, and this is something I often talk about, if you look at the most influential, beneficial and "famous" Dorje Shugden practitioners and teachers in the world, they are NOT uttering a single bad word or criticism against the Dalai Lama or any other school or lama. They are loyal to  their own lineage practices and teachings but NOT at the expense of other schools/teachers/teachings. You will notice that no matter what abuse and obstacles are hurled at them for their practice of Dorje Shugden, it has not spurred them on in any way to react and speak negatively against any other lama or even any individual who has harmed them. And these are the very people that are accused of being sectarian? I don't see how this can logically be so.

[DSFriend]

Interestingly also, and this is something I often talk about, if you look at the most influential, beneficial and "famous" Dorje Shugden practitioners and teachers in the world, they are NOT uttering a single bad word or criticism against the Dalai Lama or any other school or lama. They are loyal to  their own lineage practices and teachings but NOT at the expense of other schools/teachers/teachings. You will notice that no matter what abuse and obstacles are hurled at them for their practice of Dorje Shugden, it has not spurred them on in any way to react and speak negatively against any other lama or even any individual who has harmed them. And these are the very people that are accused of being sectarian? I don't see how this can logically be so.

Can't agree with you more Beggar. Sure does show the Buddhist way of teachings and living. It is the 14th Dalai Lama now, getting all the negative press. Who will be next to put on the "shooting range". There is no stopping ones we start going down this path of bashing lamas.

[jessicajameson]

Interestingly also, and this is something I often talk about, if you look at the most influential, beneficial and "famous" Dorje Shugden practitioners and teachers in the world, they are NOT uttering a single bad word or criticism against the Dalai Lama or any other school or lama. They are loyal to  their own lineage practices and teachings but NOT at the expense of other schools/teachers/teachings. You will notice that no matter what abuse and obstacles are hurled at them for their practice of Dorje Shugden, it has not spurred them on in any way to react and speak negatively against any other lama or even any individual who has harmed them. And these are the very people that are accused of being sectarian? I don't see how this can logically be so.

That is really true - completely agree with you!

That's what I thought too  I read about this from the transcript of a video of Zong Rinpoche, giving explanation before conferring Dorje Shugden initiations. (Video: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=7106 )

After receiving this Dorje Shugden initiation, you have to do puja once a month. Also, it is necessary to follow the commitment, and you have to make a commitment with the lineage and with the order.

So that means, for example you [might] receive teachings from different traditions but mainly, your practice, your focus, your energy [should be put] into this lineage, the Gelugpa lineage.

From: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1062.0

What Zong Rinpoche advised seems to be quite apt then. Considering what beggar said about how if you studied at Harvard, you can hop around different universities to listen to guest lectures here and there, but your main study will be at that university - it's seems to be the same. It is at that university where you'll attain results and where you will graduate from. One school keeps you on a steady and progressive path, and also so that you stay unconfused in your practice.

I find it hard enough to practice teachings within my school, I can't imagine learning things from other schools on top of what I'm learning now!!

[Big Uncle]

Actually, I read that if one were to go from one teacher to the next, that would mean that we have already mastered all the teachings the first teacher gave you. Hence, if we were to go from one lineage to the next, it would mean that we have mastered all the teachings within that tradition. Now, that would be quite impossible unless we are the determination and merits of Lama Tsongkhapa, Atisha or someone as great. If we are not at their level, it would be good to stick to one tradition and one Lama or just a minimal few. No point jumping from Lama to Lama because it would just make our spiritual practice a very superficial one.

[triesa]

Sectarian or not is a matter of how one interprets the subject. When one says the other is sectarian, one has already associated himself to be different. And that is one of the problem In this world now, we are actually all the same, we all want the same thing,,....happiness, don't we?

In the religious world,I believe all religions teach their practitioners to have the same basic good human qualities.......kindness, loving, compassion,forgiving, patience, tolerence, acceptance, peace, harmony..................and so on and so on. Whichever religion suits you, that is the path and way you choose and hope that it will lead you to develope those qualities to true happiness.

Buddha Shakyamuni teaches 84000 methods to achieve liberation, because Buddha Shakyamuni already knows the diversities of our human delusions. So it is like all roads lead to Rome, you choose which one you find suitable. I don't see any sectarianism in achieving happiness and liberations, it is just different methods to suit our diversities of appetites. We will all have a full stomach at the end of the meal, and likewise, true happiness at the end of our spiritual journey.

All problems lie in the fact that we think we are right.............and you are wrong, we are better........ and you are worse.