Being sectarian just because we follow one path...?

[DSFriend]

Believe it or not - many practitioners want to just PRACTICE and are not interested in the politics! It looks like the only ones being sectarian are the ones making the accusation.

Totally! Tibetan Buddhism is a huge dose of what seems to be political... knowing about it was confusing and caused uneasiness to my mind. However, I find the more I read and try to understand what all these politics are about, ironically... it becomes less confusing. I think politics in Tibetan Buddhism could be a method in itself...

Politics and religion is not something i am comfortable with, but am keeping an open mind without letting it affect my practice.

[hope rainbow]

I'd say this short and sweet:

BEING SECTARIAN IS AT THE OPPOSITE END OF BEING SPIRITUAL

*sectarian in the sense of having attachment to one's "group" and aversion to another

[triesa]

I'd say this short and sweet:

BEING SECTARIAN IS AT THE OPPOSITE END OF BEING SPIRITUAL

*sectarian in the sense of having attachment to one's "group" and aversion to another

Exactly, "EQUANIMITY" is what all spiritual seekers should try to practise. One way to achieve it is to think of ways we are similiar rather than ways we are different.

[DSFriend]

I'd say this short and sweet:

BEING SECTARIAN IS AT THE OPPOSITE END OF BEING SPIRITUAL

*sectarian in the sense of having attachment to one's "group" and aversion to another

Isn't it sad how we fall into the trap that by showing loyalty or devotion to one is often seen as being negative towards the other.

[WoselTenzin]

The following is extracted from :
Source : http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=5878
Dorje Shugden in 3,211 words or less

One of the vows associated with the initiation into Dorje Shugden practice is that the practitioner will only study the Dharma of Je Tsongkhapa, and will not study or practice philosophy or ritual from any of the other three schools of Buddhism. One can easily see how this would be interpreted as Sectarianism.


Dorje Shugden is being blamed and practitioners accused of being sectarian just because we focus on the teachings of Je Tsongkhapa! I do get this remark ones in awhile and holding back from firing off a sarcastic remark sure can be a test of patience!

Where is the logic in this?! To start with, Je Tsongkhapa is an Enlightened being, prophesied by Buddha Shakyamuni that he will come to revive Dharma in this degenerate times. If anyone's a Buddhist, we would know of the 84000 methods to obtain happiness and liberation.

Now, let's then focus on all 84000 methods, in order to not be sectarian?? It's totally illogical.

And who says whatever else we are NOT practicing is considered bad. It doesn't mean just because we are Gelugpas, then the Kagyus/Sakyas/Ningmas are wrong or bad. Why should it be viewed that way?

View of duality at play?

The vows associated with practising only Je Tsongkapa Dharma after receiving initiation of DS is not meant to be sectarian but rather to be of benefit to the practitioners.  All valid buddhist traditions are paths to enlightenment just as different routes to the top of the mountain.  Ultimately the goal is the same. 

However, if we put all our energy into how to progress along one tradition, we will definitely progress faster than if we were to disperse our energy trying to figure out how to progress along a few other traditions.  It is more of a question of efficiency in practice that this vow is given I believe. Since DS is specifically the protector of the Je Tsongkapa tradition, definitely if we concentrate on Je Tsongkapa Dharma, he will be able to help us faster.  We would progress faster this way rather than switching back and forth different traditions and not moving forward.

Just like climbing a mountain, if we keep switching our routes, we will never get to the top of the mountain. However, if we choose one route and go all the way with it, plus if we know for sure someone or something along that particular route can help us, we will definitely reach the top faster. Hence, the vow of only studying the Je Tsongkapa Dharma after receiving DS initiation.  This is my own little theory,  Please correct me if I am wrong.

[jessicajameson]

Sectarian or not is a matter of how one interprets the subject. When one says the other is sectarian, one has already associated himself to be different. And that is one of the problem In this world now, we are actually all the same, we all want the same thing,,....happiness, don't we?

In the religious world,I believe all religions teach their practitioners to have the same basic good human qualities.......kindness, loving, compassion,forgiving, patience, tolerence, acceptance, peace, harmony..................and so on and so on. Whichever religion suits you, that is the path and way you choose and hope that it will lead you to develope those qualities to true happiness.

Buddha Shakyamuni teaches 84000 methods to achieve liberation, because Buddha Shakyamuni already knows the diversities of our human delusions. So it is like all roads lead to Rome, you choose which one you find suitable. I don't see any sectarianism in achieving happiness and liberations, it is just different methods to suit our diversities of appetites. We will all have a full stomach at the end of the meal, and likewise, true happiness at the end of our spiritual journey.

All problems lie in the fact that we think we are right.............and you are wrong, we are better........ and you are worse.

@Triesa You express yourself really well. I whole-heartedly agree with what you have said.

Buddhism has 84,000 paths to enlightenment - so being on "one path" cannot be considered as encouraging sectarianism. It's like if my housemate and I drove to university - she took one route and I took another, one drives a Honda and the other a Ford. We will still arrive at the same destination. Neither one is wrong to take a different route.

Again like what Triesa wrote, even when considering all religions being in Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity - we all want the same thing: happiness.

Politics and religion is not something i am comfortable with, but am keeping an open mind without letting it affect my practice.

@DSFriend In this day and age, you cannot be involved in anything that is free from politics anymore. We cannot even practice the great Dorje Shugden's practice openly. I'm sure people out there are getting restless and agitated as to when the time comes when Dorje Shugden is openly propitiated!

[DSFriend]

@DSFriend In this day and age, you cannot be involved in anything that is free from politics anymore. We cannot even practice the great Dorje Shugden's practice openly. I'm sure people out there are getting restless and agitated as to when the time comes when Dorje Shugden is openly propitiated!

Oh yes Jessicajameson!! Count me in as one of those restless, agitated folks! I'm restless and anxious with excitement looking forward to the day when Dorje Shugden can be propitiated and practiced without persecutions. My simple logic tells me that much harmony will come about at that time too.

[WisdomBeing]

I wish we could stop seeing the difference between us. Between different faiths, different lineages etc.

Especially when we are in the same lineage - we are Dorje Shugden practitioners - and yet instead of looking at how we can be harmonious and support each other, there are those who love to judge us, mock us, criticise us and curse us. And that to me, is really what being sectarian means. Very sad.

[DSFriend]

I wish we could stop seeing the difference between us. Between different faiths, different lineages etc.

Especially when we are in the same lineage - we are Dorje Shugden practitioners - and yet instead of looking at how we can be harmonious and support each other, there are those who love to judge us, mock us, criticise us and curse us. And that to me, is really what being sectarian means. Very sad.

The only way I know of to clear wrong views is to develop ourselves with qualities Dorje Shugden practitioners should have...irregardless of the persecutions, mockeries, etc... That'll be a reflection of our beloved Dharma King Dorje Shugden. May our protector clear obstacles that we will have realizations and attainments to be of true benefit to others.

[hope rainbow]

Just like climbing a mountain, if we keep switching our routes, we will never get to the top of the mountain. However, if we choose one route and go all the way with it, plus if we know for sure someone or something along that particular route can help us, we will definitely reach the top faster. Hence, the vow of only studying the Je Tsongkapa Dharma after receiving DS initiation.

A path is only a path, it is not the result.
Many paths of many sorts can seem to go different directions and end up to the same result.
If we keep focused on the result, we won't develop attachment to our path and harmful intents to other's paths.

All of the Buddha's teachings lead to enlightenment.

[Helena]

I wish we could stop seeing the difference between us. Between different faiths, different lineages etc.

Especially when we are in the same lineage - we are Dorje Shugden practitioners - and yet instead of looking at how we can be harmonious and support each other, there are those who love to judge us, mock us, criticise us and curse us. And that to me, is really what being sectarian means. Very sad.

Well said, WB! I heartily agree!

When we cannot even get along well within the already ostracized small Shugden community, we are so busy pointing fingers at other groups and communities telling them to be respectful and harmonious? It is a joke, really.

Stop the internal bickering first and foremost, then become a good example of what it means NOT TO BE SECTARIAN by doing everything that our Lord Protector has done all his entire lineage of incarnations no matter how badly and harshly he has been treated - and yet, Dorje Shugden criticizes no one, not even those who have so-called hurt him and tried to kill him many times over. Dorje Shugden does not exclude anyone, nor does he ever abandon anyone.

Can we just follow the foot-steps of our great Protector?

[Big Uncle]

It is always the case for all of us. We only see fault, problems and negativities in everything no matter how pure the object is. That is the nature of Samsara and the way our ego works. We don't wanna see that following a single path is actually an excellent way to release ourselves from Samsara.

This is especially true for the path of Tantra and since our mind is so unstable, having several Gurus already is very bad and if we dare to mix lineages, we would be lost in the confusion of presentation. Each sect presents the path differently and how are we to gain anything from our practice. This is actually extremely dangerous and I see the logic in just stick to one Lama and practice.

We are not Lama Tsongkhapa or any high Lama, in which we can discern the path ourselves. So being a stickler to one path is an excellent way achieve something in our practice. I don't see anything wrong with committing to one sect upon receiving Dorje Shugden initiation. It is actually a very wise and well-thought out commitment to make.

[DSFriend]

I wish we could stop seeing the difference between us. Between different faiths, different lineages etc.

I do agree...differences are not necessarily bad, but how our negative critical mind works is bad.

In the initial scope of the Lamrim, the teachings are presented to us in that it is the best. We do know that there are other lineages, with practices which are different but all leads to similar result, liberation. It is taught to us that the Lamrim which we have been so fortunate to come in contact with is the best,.. and the reason is to help us gain faith in the teachings. If we do not think it is the best, then why should we study and accept the instructions. Aren't we wasting our time when we should study and practice what we think is the best then.

There will always be differences, and each will say that theirs is the best....and that should be the way. It doesn't mean others' are bad just because we think ours is the best and vice versa.

[WoselTenzin]

One of the vows associated with the initiation into Dorje Shugden practice is that the practitioner will only study the Dharma of Je Tsongkhapa, and will not study or practice philosophy or ritual from any of the other three schools of Buddhism. One can easily see how this would be interpreted as Sectarianism.]

The vows associated with only studying the Dharma of Je Tsongkapa for those with initation of Dorje Shugden practice is so that practitioners can concentrate on learning and mastering one school of Buddhism in order that results from the study and practice can be achieve quickly.  Every school of Buddhism has their own unique style of presentation but ultimately all of it will lead to the same goal which is enlightenment. 

It is only logical that we concentrate our study and practice within one school as that is the most efficient way of achieving results. For eg if we were to climb a mountain, there are several routes to the top.  If we climb up one route and half way we decide to climb down and use another route, we would waste a lot of time and can even get lost.  Similarly, if we follow one school of practice all the way, it would be the fastest way to achieve our intended results without wasting time and getting confused.

The vow associated with studying only Je Tsongkapa Dharma for Dorje Shugden initiates is natural as Dorje Shugden is the protector of Je Tsongkapa's doctrine.  It is not meant to be sectarian, but for practitioner to achieve results in their practice the fastest and most efficient way.   

Furthermore, like other schools of Buddhism, Je Tsongkapa Dharma has a proven track record and there many practitioners and Lamas within this tradition who have achieved great results in their practice. 

         

[Helena]

Every school if Buddhism is legitimate and valid. However different they appear to be. The difference becomes poignant and even important because people like us make it so. Due to our own personal preferences and experiences, we choose to accept or not accept something or someone. Many a times, it is very personal. However, when we put a group of people with similar preferences and experiences, they start to think that they are right and they begin to dictate what they perceive as absolute. But in truth, everyone is already flawed in their own perception. Because it is still governed by their own personal motives, desires, expectations and etc.

I have come to realise that the more people act in an in secure manner, the more personal interests they have in that object or issue. They need as much support and help as they can get so that what they want to believe in or achieve gets accomplished. Most people have personal interests in something or someone. Some even stand to gain on a personal level. Hence, they have a stronger desire or reason to maintain a certain view or issue or even rule/policy.

If following one path is considered Sectarian, then let's see how all schools of Tibetan Buddhism would react if HHDL asked every head of each school to abdicate having a head of their respective school. There would be no need for a Karmapa or a Sakya Trizin, etc. We do not need all these heads propagating over-looking one particular school then. We can immediately dissolve all of them and give all power to HHDL or the Prime Minister.

Truth is, we know it will not be done and cannot be done. There will be a serious chaos, if it indeed happen.

Each school stands as a method or path for people of the like minds to enter the spiritual journey. It is not the one path which presents the sectarian attitude and mindset. It is the people of a certain path which makes it sectarian. Again, it is politics. Games people play to bring about what they wish to accomplish for their own personal interests or the goals of their group.

For the rest of us, it is really up to all the different individuals to wake up and open their eyes to all this political games or not. And if we do open our eyes and minds, it is truly with the Dharma and not without.

The only way to end a conflict that enables everyone to benefit equally is the Dharma way.