Author Topic: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE  (Read 11763 times)

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« on: March 07, 2011, 02:47:43 PM »

Has anyone read this piece of news yet?

I got it from yahoo.

Now, this is definitely interesting...

(Source:http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110307/wl_nm/us_china_npc_tibet)

China says Dalai Lama has to reincarnate

By Sui-Lee Wee and Ben Blanchard – 2 hrs 16 mins ago

BEIJING (Reuters) – Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, does not have a right to choose his successor any way he wants and must follow the historical and religious tradition of reincarnation, a Chinese official said Monday.
It is unclear how the 76-year-old Dalai Lama, who lives in India and is revered by many Tibetans, plans to pick his successor. He has said that the succession process could break with tradition -- either by being hand-picked by him or through democratic elections.

But Padma Choling, the Chinese-appointed governor of Tibet, said that the Dalai Lama had no right to abolish the institution of reincarnation, underscoring China's hardline stance on one of the most sensitive issues for the restless and remote region.

"I don't think this is appropriate. It's impossible, that's what I think," he said on the sidelines of the annual meeting of China's parliament, when asked about the Dalai Lama's suggestion that his successor may not be his reincarnation.

"We must respect the historical institutions and religious rituals of Tibetan Buddhism," said Padma Choling, a Tibetan and a former soldier in the People's Liberation Army. "I am afraid it is not up to anyone whether to abolish the reincarnation institution or not."

The Chinese government says it has to approve all reincarnations of living Buddhas, or senior religious figures in Tibetan Buddhism. It also says China has to sign off on the choosing of the next Dalai Lama.

"Tibetan Buddhism has a history of more than 1,000 years, and the reincarnation institutions of the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama have been carried on for several hundred years," Padma Choling said.
Some worry that once the Dalai Lama dies, China will simply appoint its own successor, raising the possibility of there being two Dalai Lamas -- one recognized by China and the other chosen by exiles or with the blessing of the current Dalai Lama.

In 1995, after the Dalai Lama named a boy in Tibet as the reincarnation of the previous Panchen Lama, the second highest figure in Tibetan Buddhism, the Chinese government put that boy under house arrest and installed another in his place.

Many Tibetans spurn the Chinese-appointed Panchen Lama as a fake.

The Chinese government accuses the Dalai Lama of fomenting violence to seek Tibet's independence. He rejects the claim, saying he is just pushing for greater autonomy.

Tibetan protests led by Buddhist monks against Chinese rule in March 2008 gave way to torrid violence, with rioters torching shops and turning on residents, especially Han Chinese, who many Tibetans see as intruders threatening their culture.

At least 19 people died in the unrest, which sparked waves of protests across Tibetan areas. Pro-Tibet groups overseas say more than 200 people were killed in a subsequent crackdown.

With the third anniversary of that unrest approaching, Tibet has taken measures to restrict visitors.
Zhang Qingli, Tibet's hardline Communist Party chief, told reporters the restrictions were due to the "cold winter," a slew of religious activities and limited number of hotels.

"This is in accordance with national laws," he said.

China has ruled Tibet with an iron fist since Communist troops marched in 1950. It says its rule has bought much needed development to a poor and backward region.

Exiles and rights groups accuse China of failing to respect Tibet's unique religion and culture and of suppressing its people.
Helena

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 03:44:15 PM »
This line stands out for me -


"I am afraid it is not up to anyone whether to abolish the reincarnation institution or not."


It does imply many things, doesn't it?
Helena

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 04:46:53 PM »
I am just sharing the different sources reporting on this subject. It is interesting to read how different media writes and reports the news. Something like what Beggar was writing about on the other thread: THE ROLE OF MEDIA.

Look at the GRAND TITLE of this piece and how they conveyed the news -

Source: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/370592,dalai-lama-official-says.html

China to protect reincarnation of Dalai Lama, official says

Beijing - China plans to protect the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama after his death if the exiled Tibetan Buddhist leader tries to end the traditional practice, an official said on Monday.

The 14th Dalai Lama, 76, said last year that his successor would not necessarily be a reincarnation but could instead be someone appointed by him during his lifetime.

"What he said does not count," Padma Cholig, the head of China's Tibet Autonomous Region, told reporters on Monday.
"We must respect the historical institutions and religious rituals of Tibetan Buddhism," the official Xinhua news agency quoted Padma as saying during the annual session of China's parliament.

"I am afraid it is not up to anyone to abolish the reincarnation institution," he said, adding that the practice of reincarnation of Tibetan lamas, or religious gurus, dated back hundreds of years.

A second regional official said the death of the Dalai Lama would have little impact on the "overall situation of Tibet."
"Of course there will be a little repercussion due to religious factors, but we will take that into consideration and will surely guarantee the long-term political stability in Tibet," Qiangba Puncog said.

"I dare not say that Tibet will not see any incidents, big or small, forever, but I dare say that the current situation in Tibet is on the whole stable, and the Tibetan people wish for stability and object to trouble-making," Qiangba was quoted as saying.

The agency said Zhang Qingli, the Tibet regional secretary of the ruling Communist Party, reiterated the government's view of the Dalai Lama as a "wolf in monk's robes" who wanted to separate Tibet from China.

The Dalai Lama has repeatedly said he is not seeking independence but greater political and religious autonomy for Tibetans in China.

Representatives of the Dalai Lama, who fled to India after an uprising against Chinese rule in March 1959, have held several rounds of unsuccessful talks with Beijing.

The Nobel peace laureate, known for his self-effacing humour, has become a symbol of Tibetan non-violent resistance against China.

The global spotlight first shone on him at the age of 4 when he was enthroned as the reincarnation of the 13th Dalai Lama.

Helena

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 04:50:48 PM »
This is from Boston News on the same subject.

Source: http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2011/03/07/agents_say_tibet_closed_to_foreigners_in_march/

China: Tibet won't fall apart if Dalai Lama dies

BEIJING—Tibet will likely experience small shock waves when the Dalai Lama dies, but a Chinese official said Monday that the government would not now allow any serious instability to rock the region.

Although the Tibetan region is quiet now, it was roiled by violent anti-government riots three years ago that killed at least 22 people and set off a wave of protests across Tibetan areas of western China. Beijing blamed the unrest on followers of the Dalai Lama, who it says are seeking to separate Tibet from China. The Tibetan spiritual leader has denied that, saying he is working only for a high degree of autonomy under Chinese rule.

In the wake of the riots, China closed off the remote Himilayan region, barring international tourists for about a year. On Monday, Chinese travel agents said they had been ordered not to allow foreign visitors into the region around the upcoming third anniversary of the riots. Foreigners heading to Tibet have always needed special permits in addition to their Chinese visas and must travel with tour groups.

As part of its efforts to maintain control over Tibet, China regularly maligns the Dalai Lama, who is the head of Tibet's government-in-exile, and tries to play down his importance to the people in the region. Tibet's former Beijing-appointed governor, Qiangba Puncog, said Monday that the exiled spiritual leader still has religious clout but no political influence in China.

"Of course there will be some small shock waves due to religious factors, but we will take that into consideration and will surely guarantee long-term political stability in Tibet," Puncog, who now heads the regional legislature, told reporters in Beijing.

The Dalai Lama, who fled Tibet amid an abortive uprising against Chinese rule in 1958, remains deeply revered among many Tibetans despite Beijing's decades-long campaign to vilify him and undermine his influence. The 76-year-old, who is 14th in the line of reincarnations, has at times insisted his successor would be born in exile but has also said the tradition could end with his death. He has talked about dividing his power, with his reincarnation carrying on spiritual duties while someone else -- perhaps someone he appoints -- takes up the leadership of the exile movement.

China says that the reincarnation tradition cannot be abandoned and that the next Dalai Lama must be born in a Tibetan area under Chinese control. After the death of the last Panchen Lama, Tibetan Buddhism's second-highest spiritual leader, Beijing refused to accept the Dalai Lama's choice and appointed another boy instead.

Evidence of the control China exerts on the region was evident in the order reported by travel agents Monday. Beijing Youth Travel Service saleswoman Li Jianyue said the order was conveyed verbally, as is often the case with official directives that the government does not wish to defend or explain.

"A few days ago, they told us not to organize the foreign groups this month," Li said. The unrest broke out March 14, 2008.

The top Chinese government official for Tibet, Zhang Qingli, confirmed there were restrictions but said they were being enforced for safety reasons, citing possible overcrowding and the bitterly cold winter weather.

Tourists from outside the country were banned entirely for more than a year following the 2008 riots in Lhasa. China responded with a massive military crackdown in which Tibetan rights groups say nearly 140 Tibetans were killed.
Helena

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 04:59:30 PM »
As far as I can see, His Holiness has already made sure that everything will continue after HE is gone.

Why do I say that?

Well, all the high Lamas and even living treasures in Gaden Shartse, Jangtze and etc have been expelled or chased out in one way or another.

These cast out Lamas and monks will most likely find refuge in Shugden monasteries, whereby they can just be and continue to practice as they wish.

The split has made it possible for Shugdenpas to stand and survive on their own, independent of their own Government.

While the rest will and may crumble after His Holiness's passing, Shugdenpas will continue as they have because they were already 'trained' earlier on with the ban and by the ban. Shugdenpas know how to continue with the lineage, the Dharma and the tradition.

In other words, after the His Holiness is gone - the true Gelugpa lineage would lie with the Shugdenpas.
Helena

DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 05:17:34 PM »
Dorje Shugden's line of incarnation was banned. Will the Dalai Lama's line of incarnation be curtailed also? The Dalai lama's line of incarnations has always been very involved in politics. Now that Tibet is in the hands of China, will there still be a need for this position? Attained beings reincarnate to fulfill purpose. Dalai lama will reincarnate but will he take up this position again is questionable.

Vajraprotector

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 610
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 06:25:57 PM »
Dorje Shugden's line of incarnation was banned. Will the Dalai Lama's line of incarnation be curtailed also?

Dorje Shugden's line of incarnation was banned by the Tibetans, not the Chinese. I personally think the Chinese will not ban the incarnation of the Dalai Lama, but may be appoint their own? Whatever it is, the new Dalai Lama will not have such influence as the current one. 

jessicajameson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2011, 09:39:32 PM »
This line stands out for me -


"I am afraid it is not up to anyone whether to abolish the reincarnation institution or not."


It does imply many things, doesn't it?

@Helena What do you think it implies?

I'm extremely curious as to whom HH Dalai Lama is going to choose as his successor! That little Miss Busy-body in me is just itching to know!

Unfortunately, whatever the big and glorious power nation, that is China, says will probably go. As much as we'd like to deny it, pure Buddhist practitioners will definitely believe in whomever HH Dalai Lama choose as his successor, but others (i.e. the other billions of people) probably won't.

However, perhaps... just perhaps... HH Dalai Lama chooses someone that the Chinese government does agree with. Imagine the immense influence that person could have.

Interesting!

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 01:04:48 AM »
I don't think the Dalai Lama will stop reincarnating but who is going to recognize him and perhaps this time as a woman (the Dalai Lama talked of the possibility), which means not in the way we would recognize him. Each incarnation of the Dalai Lama is radically different than the last. They are almost like 14 different people and perhaps he will emanate as two or three contending Dalai Lamas. After all, there are two recognized Karmapas, two Domo Geshe Rinpoches and even more other Lamas. The possibility is endless but one thing is for sure... After the Dalai Lamas leaves this world, his hold on it will wane and the petty ban his government has imposed on the community will eventually dissolve...Perhaps, the next Dalai Lama might even start picking Dorje Shugden practice and actively promoting it instead.

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2011, 10:02:03 AM »
@ Jessica - I think most importantly, it implies that HHDL does not have even the power to determine the incarnation tradition. HHDL may say he does not want to reincarnate anymore and it ends with him. The Chinese is saying it does not end with him. The Chinese will continue to search, install and preserve the tradition of the Dalai Lama, as HHDL does not have the power to decide.

In one sweeping statement, they are stripping HHDL's authority and significance. Whatever institution of Dalai Lama that the Chinese will protect and preserve will undoubtedly be one which conforms to the Chinese's policies, rules and wishes. The Chinese will use that reigning tradition to enforce their rule over Tibet and its people.

I like what Big Uncle is saying though.

HHDL may very well reincarnate in other ways or in several ways. But whatever it is, I am sure HH will choose the one that is most beneficial to all around him.

Yes, I would not put is past HHDL's next incarnation to practice Dorje Shugden again and start promoting it all over again. Like the ban never existed.

Everything is possible because everything is impermanent.




Helena

DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2011, 11:38:05 AM »
Dorje Shugden's line of incarnation was banned. Will the Dalai Lama's line of incarnation be curtailed also?

Dorje Shugden's line of incarnation was banned by the Tibetans, not the Chinese. I personally think the Chinese will not ban the incarnation of the Dalai Lama, but may be appoint their own? Whatever it is, the new Dalai Lama will not have such influence as the current one. 

I do agree...that if the Dalai Lama is appointed by the Chinese, then the incarnation will more than likely not have such "influence" as the current one...but not lacking in beneficial acts. Else that'll negate the reason for his incarnation/s. Who knows, there may be more than one emanation,...which is what a few people here have been speculating :)

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2011, 06:31:14 PM »
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if after the Dalai Lama's passing, China was to select a Dalai Lama incarnation who would be a Shugden practitioner. This would reinforce China's control over any remnants of the TGIE.

It also wouldn't surprise me if the Dalai Lama deliberately incarnates into the very child the Chinese would pick! That would be the supreme irony!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

jessicajameson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2011, 08:20:02 PM »
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if after the Dalai Lama's passing, China was to select a Dalai Lama incarnation who would be a Shugden practitioner. This would reinforce China's control over any remnants of the TGIE.

It also wouldn't surprise me if the Dalai Lama deliberately incarnates into the very child the Chinese would pick! That would be the supreme irony!

Hahaha!! It definitely would :) What a laugh that would be, but then again we would never know... here's to hoping! :)

@ Jessica - I think most importantly, it implies that HHDL does not have even the power to determine the incarnation tradition. HHDL may say he does not want to reincarnate anymore and it ends with him. The Chinese is saying it does not end with him. The Chinese will continue to search, install and preserve the tradition of the Dalai Lama, as HHDL does not have the power to decide.

Yes, it shows that there is possibly a huge political reason why they state that it will not end with him. I assume that they want to use the power and status that HHDL has created. Why? It's credible and respectful; something that the Chinese government don't have.

I can't bear to imagine how much karma they are collecting thinking that they can use HHDL as a political puppet.


DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 10:34:37 AM »
Perhaps, the next Dalai Lama might even start picking Dorje Shugden practice and actively promoting it instead.

I'd think if the Chinese pick their own Dalai Lama, more than likely he will practice. :)

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: CHINA SAYS DALAI LAMA HAS TO REINCARNATE
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 05:04:00 PM »
Perhaps, the next Dalai Lama might even start picking Dorje Shugden practice and actively promoting it instead.

I'd think if the Chinese pick their own Dalai Lama, more than likely he will practice. :)

That would be the best illusory play of all - the Dalai Lama practices Dorje Shugden all over again.

Yes, WB - I wouldn't be surprised at all too!  :D
Helena