Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??

[diamond girl]

In any change, there is hope for something better. This is no different with the stepping down of the DL and the upcoming Lobsang Sangay. Reading what Sangay has done as posted by Helena, it does no doubt raise the hopes of many who want change. I do not feel that he will resort to violence and retaliation, I doubt that they teach that in Harvard. Then again I could be wrong since wars have been started by Harvard graduates.

The biggest fear of many Tibetans is the demise of the DL despite having such a qualified and eloquent new PM. Everything they were taught that shaped their thoughts were by the DL. I feel for them as losing DL would be like losing their minds. And in this mental madness (dramatically put) violence is a possible consequence.

Let's just say that Sangay does a good job and fulfills the secular aspects, what will happen to the spiritual aspects when HHDL passes? I will not say that I am well-versed in Tibetan culture, but from what I have read, the spiritual aspect of their lives is the core of their being. I do think that this is a bigger and more grave problem.

Yes, I do see that with this development, and if the secular and religious do not mix, the DS ban will eventually be non-existent. I have a thought: for 50 years DL has kept the Tibet Cause alive despite not reaping the results, but people are still going at it. Similarly, in his Ban he has kept DS alive. Perhaps DL does work in mysterious ways and eventually everything will work out with the successful execution of the new TGIE under new leadership. I do wish and pray that this will be and no more violence and bans.

[DharmaDefender]

There are groups within the Exiled Tibetan communities who wish to be more violent or more virulent in their approach to Tibetan Independence, but it is ill founded.

They are too little in number, no financial backing and no backing from any government in the world. What government will benefit from a Free Tibet? No one. Why would anyone put resources towards this? Not practical.

What everyone wants now is a stable China. If Dalai Lama passes and Tibetans try their hands at violence, it will be pure suicide and no one will come to their aid. It is better to work with the Chinese within Tibet to preserve the religion, culture and unique way of life. After all a preserved Tibetan culture will benefit China also. I do not agree with China taking over Tibet decades ago, but we have to work with the current situation and the actual circumstances. Reality is important to face now. I am sorry for the many Tibetans that have suffered, but we must work a solution that no more will suffer in the future.

The whole situation in Tibet is a painful reminder of attachment. Their attachment to an idea of a free land is continuing to cause them pain (just see http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Rights-group-says-Tibetan-monk-dies-after-torture-1322575.php for another reminder).

Of course the Tibetans will blame the Chinese for their inhumane treatment of the people. Whilst I don't agree with the Chinese government's methods in the slightest, I also can't help but think that the Tibetans blame everyone but themselves for their own problems. They should take a page out of the Fifth Dalai Lama's biography, and learn that apologising, forgiveness and acceptance all bring happiness because so far, their own methods haven't worked.

[WisdomBeing]

Mr. Sangay is an expert on International Law, Democratic Constitutionalism, and Conflict Resolution. He has spoken in hundreds of seminars around the world and debated with renowned Chinese scholars from top universities in China and is well versed in contemporary Chinese politics and legal issues. He organized seven major conferences among Chinese, Tibetan, Indian and Western scholars including two unprecedented meeting between H.H. the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars in 2003, and in 2009 at Harvard University.
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I just re-read this and thought it was interesting that Mr Lobsang Sangay, who WILL be the next Prime Minister has good relationships with the Chinese, and that he even managed to organise meetings between the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars. Perhaps Lobsang Sangay will be the bridge to peace between Tibet and China. And since he seems to have unprecedented support in the recent elections, perhaps most Tibetans really just want to get on with life and how to live in harmony with the Chinese government. Lobsang Sangay certainly seems very qualified to take this forward.

May peace prevail everywhere.

[Mana]

source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13205481

27 April 2011 Last updated at 07:03 GMT

Lobsang Sangay elected Tibetan exile leader


Lobsang Sangay is an Indian-born legal expert who has spent years as a Harvard University academic

A Harvard University academic has been elected prime minister of the Tibetan government-in-exile and will take on the political role previously played by the Dalai Lama.

Lobsang Sangay won 55% of the votes cast by Tibetans around the world.

He defeated two candidates for the role, Tenzin Tethong and Tashi Wangdi.

Mr Sangay must now assume the political functions of the Dalai Lama, who said in March he wanted to devolve this responsibility to an elected official.

The Dalai Lama will retain his role as Tibetan spiritual leader.

'Middle way'

The elections were held in March and the result announced on Wednesday in Dharamsala, India, where the Tibetan government-in-exile is based.

"The Election Commission of the Central Tibetan Administration of His Holiness the Dalai Lama has declared Dr Lobsang Sangay as the third kalon tripa," Election Commissioner Jampal Thosang announced, using the Tibetan term for prime minister.

Almost 83,400 Tibetan exiles were eligible to vote and more than 49,000 ballots were cast, he said.

Tenzin Tethong, a former representative of the Dalai Lama in the US, got 37.4% of the vote and Tashi Wangdi, a government-in-exile bureaucrat, received 6.4%.

The 42-year-old winner is an Indian-born legal expert who has never lived in Tibet. His father fled Tibet in 1959, the same year as the Dalai Lama.

He says he will move to Dharamsala to serve as prime minister and that he supports the Dalai Lama's stance on ties with China.

"What His Holiness stands for is the 'Middle Way', which is genuine autonomy within China or within the framework of the Chinese constitution," he told the BBC earlier this month.

"If Tibetans are granted genuine autonomy then his Holiness the Dalai Lama said he is willing to accept Tibet as part of China."

Daunting task

An official told Reuters news agency that that Dalai Lama was "very happy" that people "took a very active part in the election process".

The 76-year-old monk announced in March that he wanted an elected official to assume some of his responsibilities, saying that such a move was in the best interests of the Tibetan people.

Analysts say he aims to ensure that even if China's government tries to select the next Dalai Lama, the Tibetans will have an elected leader they can look to who is outside China and beyond the Communist Party's control.

The BBC's Mark Dummett says Lobsang Sangay has the daunting task of trying to keep the issue of Tibet alive while the man who embodies the struggle for Tibetan rights gradually steps back from the limelight.

He has been elected head of a government which no country recognises and will face in China an opponent which has shown no sign of wanting to compromise, our correspondent adds.

[iloveds]

Almost 83,400 Tibetan exiles were eligible to vote and more than 49,000 ballots were cast, he said.

Tenzin Tethong, a former representative of the Dalai Lama in the US, got 37.4% of the vote and Tashi Wangdi, a government-in-exile bureaucrat, received 6.4%.

The 42-year-old winner is an Indian-born legal expert who has never lived in Tibet. His father fled Tibet in 1959, the same year as the Dalai Lama.

He says he will move to Dharamsala to serve as prime minister and that he supports the Dalai Lama's stance on ties with China.

Hat's off and congratulations to him... I come from a small town so when I saw his result I were a little skeptical. Did you know the population of Tibetans in the world is around 2.6-2.8million depending on who you want to believe. Yet of them 83,400 were eligible to vote!?@


The words sound legit, "elligible to vote" "ballots cast, of the 3 candidates xxx% was received. I can't help but feel sorry for him, his work really is cut out for him, and in a "Landslide Victory" it seems very much like there is a scramble to put somebody in and fast!

[DharmaDefender]

You know what? I'm happy for him because he gets a chance; I'm happy for the Tibetans because they get a chance at having a decent goverment. I'm sad for him because he inherits such an archaic, backwards-thinking political administration.

May he find the strength and support necessary to create an open, free-thinking administration that follows world standards of human rights, politics, democracy and ethics.

[LosangKhyentse]

His win in the elections did not please most of the Tibetan Govt people. Lobsang Sangay is very outspoken and direct. The old stalwarts in the current Tibetan Govt do not like this style. They do not like to be criticized in any way although they have failed in such a dismal manner. So it is a open dislike of him. If you visit the various Tibetan forums, they criticize Lobsang Sangay vehemently and he didn't even take office yet.

It will not be easy for the Tibetans to switch to democracy. They have no idea what real democracy really is. They have been under a Monarchy for hundreds of years. Sometimes brutal. Even till now they have made no progress in autonomy with China. China has given no concessions whatsoever. Even if after the Dalai Lama passes away and the remaining handful of Tibetans go violent, they will be crushed immediately and silenced forever. Tibetans are not very capable to run a real govt, if they were, they would not have lost their country and immersed the world in so many Tibetan Buddhist controversies such as two karmapas, Shugden ban, Panchen kidnap, Chushi Gangdruk, Serpom, Shar Gaden and so on and on.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how the new prime minister of Tibet's saga unfolds.

TK

[DharmaDefender]

His win in the elections did not please most of the Tibetan Govt people. Lobsang Sangay is very outspoken and direct. The old stalwarts in the current Tibetan Govt do not like this style. They do not like to be criticized in any way although they have failed in such a dismal manner. So it is a open dislike of him. If you visit the various Tibetan forums, they criticize Lobsang Sangay vehemently and he didn't even take office yet.

It will not be easy for the Tibetans to switch to democracy. They have no idea what real democracy really is. They have been under a Monarchy for hundreds of years. Sometimes brutal. Even till now they have made no progress in autonomy with China. China has given no concessions whatsoever. Even if after the Dalai Lama passes away and the remaining handful of Tibetans go violent, they will be crushed immediately and silenced forever. Tibetans are not very capable to run a real govt, if they were, they would not have lost their country and immersed the world in so many Tibetan Buddhist controversies such as two karmapas, Shugden ban, Panchen kidnap, Chushi Gangdruk, Serpom, Shar Gaden and so on and on.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how the new prime minister of Tibet's saga unfolds.

TK

That sounds so daft. Surely he was elected because he won the majority vote...but the majority don't like him? So why did they vote for him? So it really does mean they have no idea what real democracy is...they're complaining about their own choice!

Come on - even Barack had a year before the hounds closed in.

[LosangKhyentse]

His win in the elections did not please most of the Tibetan Govt people. Lobsang Sangay is very outspoken and direct. The old stalwarts in the current Tibetan Govt do not like this style. They do not like to be criticized in any way although they have failed in such a dismal manner. So it is a open dislike of him. If you visit the various Tibetan forums, they criticize Lobsang Sangay vehemently and he didn't even take office yet.

It will not be easy for the Tibetans to switch to democracy. They have no idea what real democracy really is. They have been under a Monarchy for hundreds of years. Sometimes brutal. Even till now they have made no progress in autonomy with China. China has given no concessions whatsoever. Even if after the Dalai Lama passes away and the remaining handful of Tibetans go violent, they will be crushed immediately and silenced forever. Tibetans are not very capable to run a real govt, if they were, they would not have lost their country and immersed the world in so many Tibetan Buddhist controversies such as two karmapas, Shugden ban, Panchen kidnap, Chushi Gangdruk, Serpom, Shar Gaden and so on and on.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how the new prime minister of Tibet's saga unfolds.

TK

That sounds so daft. Surely he was elected because he won the majority vote...but the majority don't like him? So why did they vote for him? So it really does mean they have no idea what real democracy is...they're complaining about their own choice!

Come on - even Barack had a year before the hounds closed in.

Please read carefully what was written. The Tibetan Government people do not like him as he is outspoken against their corrupt practices and archaic methods. The majority of the common Tibetan people who voted for him, of course like him very much. Tibetan Govt people only make up a tiny majority of the total voting population.

TK

[WisdomBeing]

I just came across this article which says that Lobsang Sangay "will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death."

This is the first I have heard of it - did Dean Nelson get his facts wrong??


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/8476717/Harvard-academic-elected-Tibets-first-non-Lama-political-leader.html

Harvard academic elected Tibet's first non-Lama political leader
A Harvard academic and law expert has been elected as Tibet's political leader, becoming the first non 'reincarnated' Lama to carry out the role.

By Dean Nelson, New Delhi 4:16PM BST 27 Apr 2011

Lobsang Sangay's election, with 55 per cent of the votes cast by Tibetans around the world, follows the Dalai Lama's announcement of his plans to retire earlier this year and his determination to avoid creating a leadership vacuum. He had feared China would exploit his future death and seek to impose a pro-Beijing leadership on Tibetan Buddhists.

The 43-year-old will be the first Tibetan 'Kalon Tripa' or prime minister to have been raised in India. According to China and Tibet analysts, he will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death.

Mr Sangay was raised in Darjeeling, the former British colonial hill station, and has worked as a fellow at Harvard Law School for the last 15 years.

He is seen as a follower of the Dalai Lama's pursuit of "meaningful autonomy" for Tibet within a Chinese state, but some suspect he may have more radical ambitions as a former member of the pro-Independence Tibetan Youth Congress.

Mohan Guruswamy, director of New Delhi's Centre for Policy Alternatives, said the election of Mr Sangay and the rise of the Karmapa Lama marked a division of the two roles, both of which have until now been carried out by the Dalai Lama. It is also an attempt to counter Chinese claims that the Tibetan exiles favour a return to feudal rule by Buddhist lamas.

[LosangKhyentse]

I just came across this article which says that Lobsang Sangay "will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death."

This is the first I have heard of it - did Dean Nelson get his facts wrong??


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/8476717/Harvard-academic-elected-Tibets-first-non-Lama-political-leader.html

Harvard academic elected Tibet's first non-Lama political leader
A Harvard academic and law expert has been elected as Tibet's political leader, becoming the first non 'reincarnated' Lama to carry out the role.

By Dean Nelson, New Delhi 4:16PM BST 27 Apr 2011

Lobsang Sangay's election, with 55 per cent of the votes cast by Tibetans around the world, follows the Dalai Lama's announcement of his plans to retire earlier this year and his determination to avoid creating a leadership vacuum. He had feared China would exploit his future death and seek to impose a pro-Beijing leadership on Tibetan Buddhists.

The 43-year-old will be the first Tibetan 'Kalon Tripa' or prime minister to have been raised in India. According to China and Tibet analysts, he will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death.

Mr Sangay was raised in Darjeeling, the former British colonial hill station, and has worked as a fellow at Harvard Law School for the last 15 years.

He is seen as a follower of the Dalai Lama's pursuit of "meaningful autonomy" for Tibet within a Chinese state, but some suspect he may have more radical ambitions as a former member of the pro-Independence Tibetan Youth Congress.

Mohan Guruswamy, director of New Delhi's Centre for Policy Alternatives, said the election of Mr Sangay and the rise of the Karmapa Lama marked a division of the two roles, both of which have until now been carried out by the Dalai Lama. It is also an attempt to counter Chinese claims that the Tibetan exiles favour a return to feudal rule by Buddhist lamas.

This is very interesting. It can lead to a few scenarios:

1. The Dalai Lama passes away (sorry) and everything falls apart within  few years. This would seem very likely. What can be accomplished without the Dalai Lama? With the Dalai Lama's current worldwide respect, influence, celebrity-hood, contacts, and power he could still do nothing for the Tibetans in Tibet or autonomy. What is expected to be accomplished with someone so much 'lesser?' It doesn't make sense. Unless the Chinese leadership turns around completely, then perhaps there is room to appeal. Unlike the USSR (past), China has no history of granting autonomy to any minorites. China has many minorities always pining for autonomy and/or indiependence. We do not hear much in the media as they are silenced fast. In the case of independent Taiwan, China refuses any diplomatic relations claiming it is a Chinese province. Many in the world will not accept Taiwan as a sovereign nation in order not to anger China. An independent fully functioning wealthy country such as Taiwan cannot gain their 'independence' from China, what can Tibet ever hope to do.

2. It's odd why some people target the Karmapa to be the next leader after Dalai Lama. Why not Ling Rinpoche? Or Trijang Rinpoche, or Zong Rinpoche, or the next Sakya Trizin or Gaden Tripa. Why not one of the other spiritual heads such as Drukchen Rinpoche or Drigung Gyabgon, the head of the Drigung Kagyu sect?  Or any other Lama? What makes Karmapa qualified to do this? What makes any Lama qualified to take over after the Dalai Lama who was groomed for his position. It will be highly unlikely and a utopian dream that the powers of state in spiritual matters will be passed to Karmapa or any other lama. To make matters simple, no lama (besides Dalai Lama) except perhaps the Panchen Lama will have the overall respect of majority of Tibetans trascending which sect they belong to. Sectarianism irregardless of outer appearances is very strong within Tibetan society. It's just the non-Tibetans of East and West going to one lama and another claiming Rimey. Have you ever heard of Rimey lamas such as Jamyang Kyentse Chokyi Lodro giving empowerment of Lama Tsongkapa? Chokyi Lodro was supposedly the foremost Rimey lama of the last century before the fall of Tibet in 1959. Dilgo Kyentze, Dzongsar Kyentze, Beru Kyentze, etc are suppose to be direct emanations of Chokyi Lodro. Chokyi Lodro has five body emanations. Having said that, have you heard of 'Rimey' lamas such as Dzongsar Kyentze getting or giving teachings indigenous of Gelug School. Have you heard of Karmapa giving or receiving teachings indigenous of Gelug? Most likely no to both. Sakya, Nyingma and Kagyu are 'united' in their focus of Guru Rinpoche's practice and prominence. In Gelug, it is Tsongkapa, considered one with Manjushri inadvertently 'cutting' off ties to the other three schools. Complicated as it seems, it somehow worked with the Dalai Lama in power in the past. The Dalai Lama's 'mistake' was to not pass power much earlier. Not training up more people earlier. Not giving more spiritual power to the heads of the four sects of Buddhism such as Gaden Tripa to 'rule' their own schools.

3. Having two 'prime ministers' would be very strange. One heads secular and the other spiritual after the Dalai Lama? Why would the other sects follow what Karmapa wills on the spiritual level? Karmapa has no history of 'ruling' the other sects. Karmapa has no knowledge of other sects, traditions and practices. This would be highly unlikely even if he was crowned the spiritual head after Dalai Lama. From the side of the other sects, why would they follow Karmapa? They have their own spiritual heads. How can Karmapa who has no recent history of ruling Tibet by listened to be obeyed by the other sects. Filling a spiritual vacuum for the time being is one thing, looking at him as the next Dalai Lama is unlikely. Even if he is crowned spiritual head after the Dalai Lama, the 'rule' will not last long.

I stil hold strong to my thoughts, after Dalai Lama passes away, Shugden's ban will be ineffective. Many of the people practicing are in democratic countries and they will eventually not tolerate any bans. Even in Maoist China, Shugden practice is allowed and no restrictions. What more is there need to say within the Tibetan community where religious bans and marginalizations are the order of the day still. If another lama takes over the reigns from Dalai Lama and becomes the 'spiritual leader', it will be impossible for him to keep the ban in place as he will need to keep his position in place first. The ban will be the least of his concerns.

TK

[Mana]

Many good thoughts posted by various people. Lots of food for thought.

Mana

[vajrastorm]

First of all, I think the election of Lobsang Sangay as Prime Minister of the TGIE definitely signifies the start of a split between the religious and the secular. The Dalai Lama will continue to promote the Dharma and the voice of Tibetan politics will be more that of a younger generation to which Lobsang Sangay belongs.

It is heartening to see that  Lobsang Sangay  appears to be likely to show a more conciliatory and non-aggressive approach towards China.  This is borne out by what Helena has posted about his efforts in organizing conferences among the Chinese, Tibetan as well as other scholars, as well as in organizing “two unprecedented meetings between HH the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars ….in Harvard”. So he brings, from these efforts and other experiences( and from his studies in Harvard ), the right skills and expertise for “conflict resolution” through peaceful negotiations.

I find it difficult to understand why the current Karmapa is still being ‘touted’ as the likely successor to the Dalai Lama. There are contentious issues, like the fact that the other three schools of Tibetan Buddhism have their own Heads, to whom (as Heads of their respective Lineages) they give their wholehearted and unquestioning support, respect and devotion. Furthermore, there has been the raid on the Karmapa, in recent times; also, there is yet another contender to  the Karmapa throne and title.

The way I see it, in regard to the Dharma, the ban on Dorje Shugden will just fade away with the passing of the Dalai Lama. Tibetan politics of the TGIE will be played out on a different stage from the religious one.  I feel that Lobsang Sangay holds the card on how the political story of the future will unfold.
But he is unlikely to have much interest in the ban and its enforcement, as he will be more interested to see how he is to play his political card with China. Without the need for any further resistance or counter-resistance, Dorje Shugden’s star( as Dharma Protector of the clear and unexcelled teachings of the lineage of Lama Tsongkhapa) will  soon shine in the firmament brightly and without a single obstruction!

[Helena]

Very confusing indeed...

A secular Prime Minister and then a Spiritual Leader = two heads ruling over a group of people who no longer have a country?
And if we consider that recently there is a third contestant claiming to be the real 17th Karmapa as well.
The drama never ends.

Lbsang Sangay sure have his work cut out for him. I am inclined to agree that the Shugden ban will become the least of his problems. His real imminent problem will be, will there be anything to preside over as the new Prime Minister?

If I take a step back and look at all this - this is really what samsara is all about, isn't it?

We fight over nothing and we will not really gain anything in the end. We will all lose in the end. Today, we have a country. Tomorrow it is gone. Today we have a leader. Tomorrow we can't decide which is the real leader.

Without Dharma, there will be no sanity. No escape!

Without Dorje Shugden, it will be the beginning of the scariest roller coaster ride that will not end.

Good luck to the new Prime Minister. I think he may have to start praying to Dorje Shugden for some real help.

[WisdomBeing]

Ok, ok so this is gossip but i couldn't resist: I read this interesting news from another forum 9http://forums2.phayul.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19760-dr-lobsang-sangay-is-a-pure-khampa/page__st__20) which says that Lobsang Sangay is a "Khampa Lithang, whose ancestors like other Lithangpas are Shugden followers but he (Lobsang Sangay) left Shugden worshipping 3 years ago so he is now clean":

Another forum participant replied, "As you said that Lobsang Sangay is Shugden follower and he left 3years ago, why too late His Holiness has requested to stop Shugden practice almost three decades. In 1996 onward His Holiness urged urgently all the Tibetan not to practice because it is bad for the cause of Tibet and if you till wish to do so then do do not come to any blessing from him. Till there is more question arises whether Lobsang Sangay has stopped the practice or he has just pretended too. And I have never hard him talking about Shugden."

This is disputed hotly by other Tibetans in this discussion but there is a video (

http://youtu.be/E84KXGkNE3c
	Small | Large

) where Lobsang Sangay does declare himself to be aligned with Lithang although of course he supports HH Dalai Lama.

If Lobsang Sangay was a Shugden practitioner 3 years ago and he has either stopped or is still continuing privately - this bodes well for Shugden practice in the future. Well, I am just indulging in wishful thinking because all this is just hearsay... but if anyone else has any other news to verify this, it would be very welcome!