Ju Mipham an interesting prophecy fullfilled.

[Zach]

Emanations of Ju Mipham

According to one account shortly before he died, Mipham told his attendant:

    Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true. I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person; I am a bodhisattva who has taken rebirth through aspiration. The suffering experienced in this body is just the residue of karma; but from now on I will never again have to experience karmic obscuration. … Now, in this final age, the barbarians beyond the frontier are close to undermining the teaching. [So] there is no point whatsoever in my taking rebirth here…I have no reason to take birth in impure realms ever again.[12]

This may be interpreted as a statement that his mindstream would have no further 'emanations' (Wylie: sprul pa (tulpa); sprul sku (tulku)). Conversely, according to another account in which he mentions the mindstream in passing and prophesies the shortly before his death to his student Khenpo Kunphel:

    Now I shall not remain long in this body. After my death, in a couple of years hence, war and darkness shall cover the earth, which will have its effect even on this isolated snow land of Tibet. In thirty years time, a mad (smyo) storm of hatred will grow like a fierce black thundercloud in the land of China, and in a further decade this evil shall spill over into Tibet itself, so that Lamas, scholars, disciples and yogis will come under terrible persecution. Due to the demon-king Pehar taking power in China, darkness and terror ('bog) will come to our sacred land, with the result that violent death shall spread like a plague through every village. Then the three lords of materialism (gsum-gyi-kla-klos) and their cousins will seize power in Tibet, spreading war, famine and oppression. No one will be safe. Now, very soon, my mind-stream will be gathered up in the pure-land of Tusita, from whence many emanations [of myself] shall then come forth in future years. I shall not take rebirth in Tibet. In twenty years, seek me in the northern lands of distant Uttarakuru, and elsewhere, east, west, north and south. Fear not, we shall be re-united again, as father and son. Now go!

Seems the omnisicent Ju Mipham seems to have an insight into the events that would occur after his death, Interesting to note again as suggested Pehar is involved in creating trouble.

[WisdomBeing]

Thanks Zach.

Emanations of Ju Mipham

According to one account shortly before he died, Mipham told his attendant:

    Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true.

This statement is valid today too. It just shows our deluded minds - when people speak the truth, no one listens and when others lie, people think it's true. A sign of our degenerate times.

I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person; I am a bodhisattva who has taken rebirth through aspiration. The suffering experienced in this body is just the residue of karma; but from now on I will never again have to experience karmic obscuration. … Now, in this final age, the barbarians beyond the frontier are close to undermining the teaching. [So] there is no point whatsoever in my taking rebirth here…I have no reason to take birth in impure realms ever again.[12]

This may be interpreted as a statement that his mindstream would have no further 'emanations' (Wylie: sprul pa (tulpa); sprul sku (tulku)). Conversely, according to another account in which he mentions the mindstream in passing and prophesies the shortly before his death to his student Khenpo Kunphel:

    Now I shall not remain long in this body. After my death, in a couple of years hence, war and darkness shall cover the earth, which will have its effect even on this isolated snow land of Tibet. In thirty years time, a mad (smyo) storm of hatred will grow like a fierce black thundercloud in the land of China, and in a further decade this evil shall spill over into Tibet itself, so that Lamas, scholars, disciples and yogis will come under terrible persecution. Due to the demon-king Pehar taking power in China, darkness and terror ('bog) will come to our sacred land, with the result that violent death shall spread like a plague through every village. Then the three lords of materialism (gsum-gyi-kla-klos) and their cousins will seize power in Tibet, spreading war, famine and oppression. No one will be safe. Now, very soon, my mind-stream will be gathered up in the pure-land of Tusita, from whence many emanations [of myself] shall then come forth in future years. I shall not take rebirth in Tibet. In twenty years, seek me in the northern lands of distant Uttarakuru, and elsewhere, east, west, north and south. Fear not, we shall be re-united again, as father and son. Now go!

Seems the omnisicent Ju Mipham seems to have an insight into the events that would occur after his death, Interesting to note again as suggested Pehar is involved in creating trouble.

Hmmm I don't see Pehar taking power in China though. Do Tibetans in Tibet now (officially China) propitiate Nechung?
Do lay people propitiate Nechung?

[Zach]

Pehar may well have hastened the invasion 

[dsiluvu]

Yes...this is an interesting read. He is a Nyingma Lama correct?

However, like WB said, is there any evidence of Pehar being propitiated in China?

[Zach]

It may not well directly refer to Perhar practise in china but rather that he has somehow gained a magnitude of control perhapes.

[WisdomBeing]

Hi Zach,

You've been a busy boy on the forum today

Where did you get this article on Ju Mipham by the way? It would be good to have the source.

Re whether Pehar hastened the invasion... well i still believe that we are all responsible for what happens to us. Tibet was invaded because Tibet had the karma to be invaded. There's no right or wrong, it just is. I think that when we accept that we are responsible for what is happening - be it the invasion of Tibet, the ostracising of Shugden practitioners, we have somehow created the karma for it so we should not blame others. Of course on the outside, it looks like it is that person's fault - i.e. China or the Dalai Lama - for our sufferings, but if we look at the bigger picture, we must have created the causes for this to happen.

[Zach]

Hi Zach,

You've been a busy boy on the forum today

Where did you get this article on Ju Mipham by the way? It would be good to have the source.

Re whether Pehar hastened the invasion... well i still believe that we are all responsible for what happens to us. Tibet was invaded because Tibet had the karma to be invaded. There's no right or wrong, it just is. I think that when we accept that we are responsible for what is happening - be it the invasion of Tibet, the ostracising of Shugden practitioners, we have somehow created the karma for it so we should not blame others. Of course on the outside, it looks like it is that person's fault - i.e. China or the Dalai Lama - for our sufferings, but if we look at the bigger picture, we must have created the causes for this to happen.

Its a Wikipedia article...I know its not the most reliable source but it certainly does raise some questions

[beggar]

There have been some accounts (like in the "Oracles and Demons" book - Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz) which give quite a lot of detail of how Pehar/ Nechung caused a lot of trouble for Tibet beginning in the early 1900s, which led to British invasions, for example. I think maybe this set the tide for the whole string of invasions to follow, ending eventually in China's takeover of course. So the reference could refer to this.

Appreciate you sharing this Zach. Interesting to see how the prophecies go across lineages. This problem that the Tibetans face now (in and out of Tibet) is not just a Gelugpa one, although that is how it is made to be, it is being faced by all Tibetans. The DS issue complicates and confuses it, but it all still stems from the same root place of being a displaced, country-less people, and frankly, a government that refuses to progress and move forward. That's how I see it anyway.

[Zach]

Cheers Beggar !
It also raises the question of how accomplished Pehar is, as to wether the prophecys regarding his eventual breaking of his oaths and wide spread cause of strife upon the land is infact very accurate indeed.

[WisdomBeing]

Cheers Beggar !
It also raises the question of how accomplished Pehar is, as to wether the prophecys regarding his eventual breaking of his oaths and wide spread cause of strife upon the land is infact very accurate indeed.

Zach - when/if that happens, Dorje Shugden will ride in on his snowlion and clean up the strife!

i'm still not sure which prophecy is true - that Nechung will become enlightened and then leave the way open for Dorje Shugden the King, or that he will break his oath... i guess time will tell. At least i trust in Dorje Shugden to be there for us, and for all those who have faith in him (and even those who don't!)

[WoselTenzin]

Hi Zach,

You've been a busy boy on the forum today

Where did you get this article on Ju Mipham by the way? It would be good to have the source.

Re whether Pehar hastened the invasion... well i still believe that we are all responsible for what happens to us. Tibet was invaded because Tibet had the karma to be invaded. There's no right or wrong, it just is. I think that when we accept that we are responsible for what is happening - be it the invasion of Tibet, the ostracising of Shugden practitioners, we have somehow created the karma for it so we should not blame others. Of course on the outside, it looks like it is that person's fault - i.e. China or the Dalai Lama - for our sufferings, but if we look at the bigger picture, we must have created the causes for this to happen.

It is true that we create the cause for what happens to us.  It would be very interesting to know what was that cause that has brought such obstacle to Shugden practitioners.  If the effect we see now is negative, the cause created in the past must be negative as well for the cause resembles the effect.  I wonder what was the collective karma created that so many people had to suffer to practice Dorje Shugden.

[Big Uncle]

I do have a different interpretation of Mipham Rinpoche's prophecy though. "Pehar seizing power in China", sounds to me to be Mao Tse Tung, which means he could be an emanation of Pehar or it is just Mipham Rinpoche's using Pehar's name as an epithet for the destruction that Mao Tse Tung would wreck on TIbet. It doesn't mean that Pehar or Nechung was practiced in China. However, what beggar mentioned about Pehar stirring trouble as quoted from the book, "Oracles and Demons of Tibet" seems to me to be another very plausible meaning to his prophecy.

[Zach]

I do have a different interpretation of Mipham Rinpoche's prophecy though. "Pehar seizing power in China", sounds to me to be Mao Tse Tung, which means he could be an emanation of Pehar or it is just Mipham Rinpoche's using Pehar's name as an epithet for the destruction that Mao Tse Tung would wreck on TIbet. It doesn't mean that Pehar or Nechung was practiced in China. However, what beggar mentioned about Pehar stirring trouble as quoted from the book, "Oracles and Demons of Tibet" seems to me to be another very plausible meaning to his prophecy.

Certainly is possible considering Pehar was a very powerful demon, If Ishvara has the power to emanate forms then it is not beyond reasoning that Pehar could be responsible for influencing peoples minds, For example setting the bigger picture aside for a moment it is Pehar who whispers in the Dalai lamas ear...he is not renowned for giving great advise.

[beggar]

But surely the Dalai Lama, who is clairvoyant and who we believe is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara, would know Pehar's intention when he whispers things in his ears?

Generally, I still haven't found an answer as to why Dalai Lama would choose the advice of an unenlightened being (nechung) over one who is definitively and absolutely enlightened (Dorje Shugden)...

[Zach]

But surely the Dalai Lama, who is clairvoyant and who we believe is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara, would know Pehar's intention when he whispers things in his ears?

Generally, I still haven't found an answer as to why Dalai Lama would choose the advice of an unenlightened being (nechung) over one who is definitively and absolutely enlightened (Dorje Shugden)...

It depends who you ask or what you believe. Pure view functions to prevent ordinary conceptions arising so when we view someone as an enlightened being we naturally receive the blessings of an enlightened being whether they are or not.
Here we have a set of prophecys suggestings that pehar will break his oaths and cause havoc in the land, and we have other sets suggesting that it is nearing his time to become enlightened...
Is it all just an illusory play ?