Author Topic: Kadhampa invites His Holiness 14th Dalai Lama come back to join Kadhampa  (Read 12325 times)

losangshengpin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
http://issuu.com/9066/docs/the_dalai_lama_in_1_feb_2011__ct_/

Kadhampa invites His Holiness 14th Dalai Lama come back to join Kadhampa and spread out the Tibetan Buddhism..

jessicajameson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
    • Email
It's all in Chinese...  ???

Is there an English translation?

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
I can't even access the text - but just the headline "Kadhampa invites His Holiness 14th Dalai Lama come back to join Kadhampa and spread out the Tibetan Buddhism.." seems rather bizzare, though perhaps the essence was lost in translation.

There are various articles here, eg Monastery with Dorje Shugden in Nepal (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=166). I know that Kadhampa have been trying to distance themselves from Dorje Shugden because they were shunned due to the politics. Would the Dalai Lama honestly accept the Kadhampa school?
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
WB, stranger things have happened. So, you never know.

FPMT can cleaned out all traces of DS, and become bossom buddies with TGIE and HHDL, what is to say that Kadhampa can't do it as well. They just need more time to convince everyone else that they are kosher.

As everything is impermanent, things can change very easily.

Interesting times we live in, WB!
Helena

Vajraprotector

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 610
I've had a brief look at the document. It's not a declaration of His Holiness the Dalai Lama joining Khadampa, it's just a text of questions to ask His Holiness, which include at one point, questioning Dalai Lama's action and as a refuting point, proposing that Dalai Lama should join the re-established Kadham.

It is a document to refute the teachings on Guru Devotion that His Holiness has given in Gaden Shartse Monastery on February 5th 2011.

I have roughly translated that section only (on page 12 & 13) as below for everyone's reference:

Here we would like to respectfully expostulate with His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, we know that you have received the 16 Circles of Kadampa lineage from H.E the 3rd Trijang Rinpoche. But, just like H.H. the 5th Dalai Lama, Your Holiness can directly receive from (the Kadhampa's)  H.H. Dromtoenpa all the teachings of Kadam tradition, especially the 16 Circles of Kadampa, and you can give up the lineage gurus that relies on Gyalpo Shugden.

Also, as you are (called) a reincarnation of Dromtonpa, so if you promote the Kadam tradition and make those who have sworn to follow the 3 main gelug monasteries to focus on the 16 Circles of Kadampa, and to abandon the teachings received from masters who relied on Gyalpo Shugden, that would be the best.

As you know, I know, the sky (heaven) knows, the earth knows, from your first incarnation H.E. the 1st Dalai Lama until H.H the 13th Dalai Lama couldn't do anything to overthrow the Gelug, you are already prepared, aren't you?

Now is the time, please go ahead (to overthrow)!

Shouldn't you follow your favourite, the Kadam tradition widely propagated by your previous life's H.H. Dromtoenpa, now re-established by H.H. Kadham Trichen Rinpoche ?

Isn't it time for you to test the devotion of your students who followed you?

If those students are really loyal, not only can you eliminate the power of the orthodox Gelug who relied on Gyalpo Shugden, you can also totally wipe out Gelug, and hence distance yourself from the lineage of Gyalpo Shugden and New Kadampa, if not, in 20 or 30 years time, all Gelugpas will not only rely on Gyalpo Shugden, and widely promote Je Tsongkhapa's Lamrim and other teachings, at that time, Your Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama will become like  Emperor of Wu, Xiang Yu, Gong Yi, Ming emperor Chongzhen, Qing emperor Pu Yi while the Gelugs who oppose you will become like King of Yue, Han emperor Liu Bang,  Koryo Dynasty Wang Jian, etc.

Hence, the best way is to swiftly join your favourite Kadam tradition, that has been re-established.

If (you) follow what I have urged you to do, not only can you remove yourself from the unpleasant experiences since H.H the 5th Dalai Lama, you will also become a famous teacher of the Kadam school and make the green (Kadhampa) tradition to continue for million of years!


* The names in blue and red are both historical leaders/ emperors etc in Chinese history. Those in blue were ousted/overthrown by those in red; or are rivals. I am not very well read in Chinese history, but briefly this is what the relations of those in blue/red are.

Obviously, this text is to appeal to the Chinese/ Taiwanese/ Chinese in South East Asia or all over the world who knows Chinese history, and who are the main target "market" of the Kadhampa group.

There are also very good answers given by H.H. Kadham Trichen Rinpoche:
a) How Kadhampa has given up Dorje Shugden because they have reverted to Kadam teachings and hence do not rely on Dogyal (Shugden), who is a Gelug protector.

b) Kadham Trichen Rinpoche hasn't gone to have an audience with His Holiness after Rinpoche has given up Dorje Shugden, and that could be the reason why His Holiness the Dalai Lama still thinks Rinpoche practices Shugden. 

c) Kadham Trichen Rinpoche said, in response to why Rinpoche hasn't gone to meet H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama:
- If having an audience will help the development of the Kadam (Kadham) school then possible, but the core development of the Kadham school is among Chinese, hence meeting the Dalai Lama would not be of any big help either.



Zach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
So they have easily abandond Dorje shugden to favour His Holiness with the re-establishment of an absorbed lineage ?  ::)

Theres something not right regardless about this.

lightning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
So they have easily abandond Dorje shugden to favour His Holiness with the re-establishment of an absorbed lineage ?  ::)

Theres something not right regardless about this.
Hi Zach,
Please kindly do not pass judgement without knowing the content first. there are many interesting things are being written. Furthermore, there are lot of comments asking Dalai Lama not to shift the blame onto Lord Dorje Shugden for many mishap happening around HIm due to Karma.

It is also request HH Dalia Lama not to continue the past errs and embrace and spread Kadham Teachings since He is an incarnation of Dromtumpa.

We Kadhampas (Newly established Green sect) are upright Buddhist group who uphold Buddha Shakyamuni's authentic teachings, although we no longer practice Dorje Shugden, we respect Him and do acknowledged that He is the manifestation of Lord Manjushri, as acknowledged by our lineage masters.

I guessed that the changing of sect  has special meaning to the propagation of Dharma especially to the Chinese. According to  Serkong Tritul Rinpoche Biography that in His previous incarnation, Tara manifested as a young girl offered silk scarfs to Him and requested Him to spread Dharma to the Chinese.

As expounded by HH Dromtug Rinpoche (Jamseng Rinpoche), changing of sect is alike changing the soup without removing the medical effectiveness. So long as the essence of the authentic Buddha teachings is retained, it is OK.

Hopefully, this will remove doubts and bring comfort to the rest of us here.

Best Regards,
Lightning

Zach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
So this is a confirmation then The Kadhamapa sect has given up Dorje shugden but still respects him as an enlightend being.  ???

thaimonk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 652
This is a confirmation to the media and outside world they have 'given' up Dorje Shugden as they were getting alot of bad publicity in Taiwan (headquarters). Dalai Lama is very popular in Taiwan.

But on the inside they have not given up. I know this for a fact. I have very good friends of friends who are a part of their organization within the decision making inner circle and close to Serkong Tritul Rinpoche. They DEFINITELY STILL WORSHIP DORJE SHUGDEN FOR SURE. They definitely still sponsor Shar Gaden Monastery.


WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
I am sure there are many Gelugpa teachers who will not break their samaya with their own teachers and will still practice privately. There are teachers who may have given up their practice outwardly for politically expedient purposes or personal reasons which we, whether lay people or sangha, should not judge on.

Even Lama Zopa's advice on Dorje Shugden has the same underlying message - that the lineage masters, HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Pabongka Rinpoche are not wrong and that students of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso should not abandon their teacher.

Whether HE Serkong Tritul is still practising or not, it's sad that someone of his stature with such a huge and growing organisation, has to outwardly 'give up' the practice of Dorje Shugden. Although I am not certain of the logic - if his goal is to spread Dharma to the Chinese, surely he does not have to appease the Dalai Lama? Is Serkong Tritul and his organisation linked to any Tibetan monastic tradition? If this is a new tradition (as Lightning says - it's a "newly established Green sect"), can it not be like NKT and become a standalone organisation? It certainly appears that it has the financial resources to be so. The fact that Serkong Tritul and his organisation has 'given up' Dorje Shugden shows that the pressure from the TGIE must be extremely strong.

May Dorje Shugden protect HE Serkong Tritul, HE Dromtug Rinpoche, HE Gangchen Rinpoche, HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Pabongka Rinpoche, HE Gonsar Rinpoche, Lama Thubten Phurbu, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso,  and all Lamas and practitioners who propitiate him! Let's pray that the politics against this enlightened Protector will end soon so everyone may openly practice in peace!

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Lone Hermit

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
This is a confirmation to the media and outside world they have 'given' up Dorje Shugden as they were getting alot of bad publicity in Taiwan (headquarters). Dalai Lama is very popular in Taiwan.

But on the inside they have not given up. I know this for a fact. I have very good friends of friends who are a part of their organization within the decision making inner circle and close to Serkong Tritul Rinpoche. They DEFINITELY STILL WORSHIP DORJE SHUGDEN FOR SURE. They definitely still sponsor Shar Gaden Monastery.

So publicly they say they don't practice but in private they continue to worship DS. Sounds like a very decptive and dishonest thing to do. I suppose by pretending not to practice they can get more money and followers. I think that's disgusting.

lightning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
This is a confirmation to the media and outside world they have 'given' up Dorje Shugden as they were getting alot of bad publicity in Taiwan (headquarters). Dalai Lama is very popular in Taiwan.

But on the inside they have not given up. I know this for a fact. I have very good friends of friends who are a part of their organization within the decision making inner circle and close to Serkong Tritul Rinpoche. They DEFINITELY STILL WORSHIP DORJE SHUGDEN FOR SURE. They definitely still sponsor Shar Gaden Monastery.

So publicly they say they don't practice but in private they continue to worship DS. Sounds like a very decptive and dishonest thing to do. I suppose by pretending not to practice they can get more money and followers. I think that's disgusting.
Dear Lone Hermit aka Wang,
I bet you have seen the articles as written by many Rinpoches in the link, as you a Chinese too. It is more disgusting to know that you whom are practicing Buddhism only the surface. Which organsation do not need money to function? Did you witness the money of the donators has been misused or misappropriated by Kadhampa? The funds used are solely for the propagation of Authentic Dharma and help mother sentients to leave suffering and attain happiness.

Do you understand that misused of Dharma funds can incurred heavy negative karma? So would you think any of us would it, knowing the consequences? Do you know that creating disharmony amongst the Buddhist groups or Sangha community would incur karma of reborn as hell being?

If you are not satisfied you may seek audience with Serkong Tritul Rinpoche or Dromtug Rinpoche. Do not hide behind the cyberspace like a rat and attack out of now where. I can make arrangement for you to have audience with both of them. Hopefully, by then you will will be convinced.

Just drop me a private messsge if you wish to seek a private interview with them.

Best Regards,
Lightning

lightning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
Dear Lone Hermit aka Wang,
I bet you have seen the articles as written by many Rinpoches in the link, as you a Chinese too. It is more disgusting to know that you whom are practicing Buddhism only the surface. Which organsation do not need money to function? Did you witness the money of the donators has been misused or misappropriated by Kadhampa? The funds used are solely for the propagation of Authentic Dharma and help mother sentients to leave suffering and attain happiness.

Do you understand that misused of Dharma funds can incurred heavy negative karma? So would you think any of us would it, knowing the consequences? Do you know that creating disharmony amongst the Buddhist groups or Sangha community would incur karma of reborn as hell being?

If you are not satisfied you may seek audience with Serkong Tritul Rinpoche or Dromtug Rinpoche. Do not hide behind the cyberspace like a rat and attack out of now where. I can make arrangement for you to have audience with both of them. Hopefully, by then you will will be convinced.

Just drop me a private messsge if you wish to seek a private interview with them.

Best Regards,
Lightning

wang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Dear Lone Hermit aka Wang,
I bet you have seen the articles as written by many Rinpoches in the link, as you a Chinese too. It is more disgusting to know that you whom are practicing Buddhism only the surface. .....

If you are not satisfied you may seek audience with Serkong Tritul Rinpoche or Dromtug Rinpoche. Do not hide behind the cyberspace like a rat and attack out of now where. I can make arrangement for you to have audience with both of them. Hopefully, by then you will will be convinced.

Just drop me a private messsge if you wish to seek a private interview with them.

Best Regards,
Lightning


Hey lightning,

This 'Lone Hermit' is not me please don't think that only a guy named 'wang' have doubt in this organization in this planet.  In fact anybody who can read Chinese can easily make a simple google search to find fact for themselves.

I do have friends be in this organization before, and did have studied its history via various sources(including their web sites, say the newly mentioned one here in New Zealand), which are all in Chinese.  I believe you and some of the guys in this forum know Chinese, I need no further comment, you know what I mean..

Anyway as the portrait of this organization and the associated 'rinpoches' there deviate too much from the Chinese media, I better keep silent, unless necessary as in this case :)

wish you progress in your study and practice!

lightning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
Dear Lone Hermit aka Wang,
I bet you have seen the articles as written by many Rinpoches in the link, as you a Chinese too. It is more disgusting to know that you whom are practicing Buddhism only the surface. .....

If you are not satisfied you may seek audience with Serkong Tritul Rinpoche or Dromtug Rinpoche. Do not hide behind the cyberspace like a rat and attack out of now where. I can make arrangement for you to have audience with both of them. Hopefully, by then you will will be convinced.

Just drop me a private messsge if you wish to seek a private interview with them.

Best Regards,
Lightning


Hey lightning,

This 'Lone Hermit' is not me please don't think that only a guy named 'wang' have doubt in this organization in this planet.  In fact anybody who can read Chinese can easily make a simple google search to find fact for themselves.

I do have friends be in this organization before, and did have studied its history via various sources(including their web sites, say the newly mentioned one here in New Zealand), which are all in Chinese.  I believe you and some of the guys in this forum know Chinese, I need no further comment, you know what I mean..

Anyway as the portrait of this organization and the associated 'rinpoches' there deviate too much from the Chinese media, I better keep silent, unless necessary as in this case :)

wish you progress in your study and practice!

Dear Wang,
Sorry that I can't help to suspect that Lone hermit could be you as both of your writing style are very similar and Lone hermit did not dis-acknowledge that he is not wang at all. There are people like playing clones behind the cyber space to add their strenght.
Simailarly there are many people who may not agree with Buddha such as His cousin Devadetta whom claimed that he went to understand Buddhism and was very against the teachings of Buddha.

I do not understand abt what you mean by deviating the Chinese media and do not wish to continue unnessary debate with you, but one thing that I am very sure and proud of, is that the teachings I have received, did not deviate from the authetic Buddha's Teachings. Similarly, I wish for your speedy enlightenment too!

Tashi Telek!
The real meaning of Tashi Telek means wish that the opposite party gain the 3 bodies of Buddha quickly