Removing Trijang Rinpoche's Throne from Gaden?

[hope rainbow]

This is one of the most exciting topic on the forum actually.
Who wants to have the throne of Trijang Rinpoche removed?
Who wants it to remain?
The answers are ever so more confusing indeed?
At least confusing in appearance that is!
Are the key people at CTA Shugden practitioners? Are they disciples of Trijang Rinpoche? Have they kept a Guru devotion from parents to children?
Maybe the Dalai Lama does not want to over-stretch the Guru devotion of Trijang Rinpoche's students?
So many questions...

[Rihanna]

I wonder if Tibetan govt officials ever question HHDL aka their boss why he makes contradictory decisions or do they just follow blindly? Or do you think they are all in cahoots, knowing The Truth yet deliberately taking Shugdenpas for a ride and doing the countdown to the day the ban will be lifted? Well, who knows....the whole world is a stage, some just have bigger parts.

[shugdenpromoter]

This I have to share with all of you.

When Gaden Shartse broke up into 2 ie Shar Gaden which comprise of majority Dokhang Khamsen (Trijang Rinpoche Khansem), Gaden Shartse refused to give the late Trijang Rinpoche's pair of slippers which is place respectfully in the main Shartse prayer hall to Shar Gaden. After much long debate, the monks then agreed for each monastery to take one side of the slippers. Now, if Trijang Rinpoche practices the demon, why in the world the monks of Shartse wants to keep Rinpoche's slippers?

[Ensapa]

This I have to share with all of you.

When Gaden Shartse broke up into 2 ie Shar Gaden which comprise of majority Dokhang Khamsen (Trijang Rinpoche Khansem), Gaden Shartse refused to give the late Trijang Rinpoche's pair of slippers which is place respectfully in the main Shartse prayer hall to Shar Gaden. After much long debate, the monks then agreed for each monastery to take one side of the slippers. Now, if Trijang Rinpoche practices the demon, why in the world the monks of Shartse wants to keep Rinpoche's slippers?

Thank you for your information. I do find it fascinating that Ganden Shartse still thinks of Trijang Rinpoche highly even when they did nothing to stop him from going to the US. They could have very least provided bodyguards for him or do more to beef up the security, the consult the protector again on what to do after that. They could have, but they did not, so Trijang Rinpoche had to leave them. If Ganden Shartse could hold on to the actual incarnation, they wouldnt have to hold on to just a pair of slippers that he has and actually listen to his melodious voice resonating in the prayer halls. In any case, they lost their Guru and there is nothing much they can do about it unless they make requests to Trijang Rinpoche to return, but that is highly unlikely at the moment as they have to be sensitive about the political situation.

My question is this: if they have given up Dorje Shugden and has caused their lama to leave them and allowed him to be exposed to death threats (which are totally unnecessary, by the way),  and they go against the Dharma protector he relied on for so many lifetimes, why hold on to his slippers? It is utterly meaningless to old on to them as they went against all that Trijang Rinpoche stood for. So why?

[DharmaDefender]

REMOVE IT. I mean, if your going to bloody chuck his practices out the door, when THATS the most important thing, what does a throne really mean? Its just a bit of wood and paint, if your not going to respect Trijang Rinpoches practices and teachings.

What a farcical show of respect from the CTA. Typical!

[thor]

Oh yes, of course that was the right thing to do, CTA chaps.

Keep the throne and keep up the facade of respect for the teacher. Behind the scenes, stab him in the back, condemn his practices, witch hunt his students, throw out his monks, but of course, keep the throne so you don't look bad. That sure is the foundation of guru devotion, isn't it?

What Buddhism are you guys practicing when you dare to crucify one of your own lineage? What attainments do you hope to attain, when you put down the very object of your refuge - your guru? What Buddhism do you think you are protecting, when you choose one political point of view over the other schools of Buddhism?

Is it really a spiritual decision, or a political game to cover your tracks?

[Tenzin Gyatso]

Trijang Rinpoche's throne should be removed from the Gelug institutions such as Sera, Drepung and Ganden. After all he is not a monk anymore and laypersons should not sit above the sangha in Gelug traditions isn't it?

If his throne remains it devalues the significance of the sangha. After all you will not see laypersons sit above sangha in Southeast Asian countries such as Sri Lanka and the likes. Sangha has value over laypersons where true dharma is revered.

I vote Trijang Rinpoche's throne be removed from the monasteries.

[Ensapa]

Oh yes, of course that was the right thing to do, CTA chaps.

Keep the throne and keep up the facade of respect for the teacher. Behind the scenes, stab him in the back, condemn his practices, witch hunt his students, throw out his monks, but of course, keep the throne so you don't look bad. That sure is the foundation of guru devotion, isn't it?
You are absolutely right, Thor. Why pretend to have Guru devotion and pretend to respect the Lineage Lama when you condemn his practices and deride his root Guru (Pabongkha Rinpoche?) What is the difference between doing that and smearing feces at his throne? None at all. In fact, putting the throne there increases bad karma as they are just practicing hypocrisy and not Dharma.

What Buddhism are you guys practicing when you dare to crucify one of your own lineage? What attainments do you hope to attain, when you put down the very object of your refuge - your guru? What Buddhism do you think you are protecting, when you choose one political point of view over the other schools of Buddhism?
There is in fact, nothing that they have gained. How many new high lamas that are actually about and abroad teaching and nurturing students that come from Ganden, Sera and Drepung? I dont see any. There are the resident Geshes of FPMT centers, but they rarely do anything big and its not on the newspapers...in fact only the previous generation of high Lamas from these monasteries are shining and opening centers everywhere. To  me, that is a very clear proof that they have already lost their efficacy and power. No blessings from lineage lamas.

Is it really a spiritual decision, or a political game to cover your tracks?
Putting the throne there is to not offend the Dalai Lama. Dont think its for any spiritual purpose.

I still do find it very sad that this has to happen. Spiritual hypocrisy is still rampant and this will only mean disaster. I hope that these monasteries wake up and do the right thing: either get rid of Trijang Rinpoche's throne, or stand up against the ban and preserve the sanctity of the lineage.

[kris]

Trijang Rinpoche's throne should be removed from the Gelug institutions such as Sera, Drepung and Ganden. After all he is not a monk anymore and laypersons should not sit above the sangha in Gelug traditions isn't it?

If his throne remains it devalues the significance of the sangha. After all you will not see laypersons sit above sangha in Southeast Asian countries such as Sri Lanka and the likes. Sangha has value over laypersons where true dharma is revered.

I vote Trijang Rinpoche's throne be removed from the monasteries.

Since we believe there are many planets in the universe, what if HH Dalai Lama decides not to take rebirth on this earth again, I wonder if we should also remove HH Dalai Lama's throne from the monastery?

I strongly believe that HH Trijang Rinpoche is not practicing openly because of all the political issues instead of He is giving up, and He will come back when the political issues are settled.

So, KEEP THE THRONE!!

[samayakeeper]

It is sad to know that Gaden Monastery wanted to remove Trijang Rinpoche's throne permanently. It has made a mockery of the function of the throne in the monastery.  Does the Gaden Monastery's authority not know the importance of keeping the throne?  They had shown tremendous amount of disrespect to Trijang Rinpoche whose current incarnation is living outside of the monastery.

Gaden Monastery has lost its independence and control by adopting the ban on Dorje Shugden in Gaden Monastery and removal of Trijang Rinpoche's throne etc.

It is indeed contradictory in the TGIE's action to intervene and stop the removal of the throne!  I think the TGIE is paving the way for Trijang Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden’s practice to return to Gaden Monastery!

I think the 'Gaden authority', the current abbot has a big say in this. Unless he has been so busy traveling to whatever countries and doing whatever. Still, if he was so 'busy', surely he gets reports of Gaden Monastery's admin and operations. I do not think that such a big thing would not have gotten the approval from the abbot.

Why Dharamsala stopped the removal of the throne is amusing. After all it's just a throne (that's what the authority of Gaden monastery think) that is currently not used by the current HH Trijang Rinpoche (who obviously does not garner the respect of Gaden authority) and who was allowed by HHDL to continue with the harmful practice.

[diablo1974]

Now it seems there are really 'bigger scene behind the current scene". i hope it will be revealed very soon and get the everything in place. No more confusion and hatred, jealousy among the tibetan buddhist community. Appreciates the effort of The Great King of Dharma Manjunatha Tsongkhapa on one of his great deeds the Monlam festival....Buddhist must stay in unity inorder for Buddhadharma to flourish, it doesnt matter is its of any tradition but most importantly is the authenticity of the teachings.

[Ensapa]

I think the 'Gaden authority', the current abbot has a big say in this. Unless he has been so busy traveling to whatever countries and doing whatever. Still, if he was so 'busy', surely he gets reports of Gaden Monastery's admin and operations. I do not think that such a big thing would not have gotten the approval from the abbot.

Why Dharamsala stopped the removal of the throne is amusing. After all it's just a throne (that's what the authority of Gaden monastery think) that is currently not used by the current HH Trijang Rinpoche (who obviously does not garner the respect of Gaden authority) and who was allowed by HHDL to continue with the harmful practice.

If people lose the significance of having a Dharma throne, then whether or not a throne is there makes no difference. Even if it was there it would be nothing but a decoration piece. It would just be another furniture in the monastery with no significance. If the government has to intervene in matters that should lie within the hands of the abbot, then what use is there, using the texts and traditions that the particular Lama has taught? Why go against a lineage lama or deny him out of the lineage Guru prayers? If a lineage lama can be removed from the Guru tree, or from the dedication prayers, can the rest be done for the other lineage lamas who we do not agree to as well? Then what is the use and why are the lineage lamas still scared?

[Manjushri]

Why keep Trijang Rinpoche's throne and stupa in Gaden when there is a complete disrespect in his practise. Why have an object of refuge and respect in the prayer hall but shun the one thing that Trijang Rinpoche kept at such high regard and propritiated all his life - Dorje Shugden. If they keep this throne, that means that there is still respect for Trijang Rinpoche, and they should respect all that Trijang Rinpoche practised. Having the throne there is to create causes for Trijang Rinpoche to return. Therefore, if there is no respect for Dorje Shugden and all the lamas that rely and propriate Dorje Shugden, there is no need to take refuge in that lama or keep his throne .  So why keep the throne? Such contradiction between words and actions.

 

[dsiluvu]

Why keep Trijang Rinpoche's throne and stupa in Gaden when there is a complete disrespect in his practise. Why have an object of refuge and respect in the prayer hall but shun the one thing that Trijang Rinpoche kept at such high regard and propritiated all his life - Dorje Shugden. If they keep this throne, that means that there is still respect for Trijang Rinpoche, and they should respect all that Trijang Rinpoche practised. Having the throne there is to create causes for Trijang Rinpoche to return. Therefore, if there is no respect for Dorje Shugden and all the lamas that rely and propriate Dorje Shugden, there is no need to take refuge in that lama or keep his throne .  So why keep the throne? Such contradiction between words and actions. 

AGREED! Look we cannot say we believe and respect Trijang Rinpoche and on the other hand we say "He is wrong"... how can he be right in every other practice and wrong in one? That just basically degrades the whole Guru system which is so well preserved since Lord Buddha's time. That is like saying all Guru's are wrong too because they were taught by someone and is passing down their knowledge to their students. Hence it makes no sense... so if this Guru is wrong, so many of his disciples is wrong too and they've passed on wrong teachings to their students... so basically might as well stop all practices because no attainments can be gained if the teachings are wrong or bad right? So why bother have a wrong "Guru" throne in Monastery?

It just goes to show the illogicality of this whole made up Ban that has no substance when you look at it deeper and question it. Only uneducated people who do not know more and those who are like sheep minded supporters would swallow such an illogical ban! Sorry but this is the obvious fact.   

[brian]

It is a subtle (or rather not so subtle) hint that the decision of keeping Trijang Rinpoche's throne in Gaden monastery is that the ban on practising Dorje Shugden is just a mere ploy and is of a major plot behind such a ban. The Dalai Lama banned everybody from continuing the practice of Dorje Shugden except his Guru Trijang Rinpoche. Why?

Well we can say that in respect of Trijang Rinpoche as a guru of Dalai Lama, that is why Trijang Rinpoche's throne haven't been removed away from Gaden Monastery. But if practising the banned and so called worshiping spirit practice can shorten Dalai Lama's life, will it be possible the Guru would not be able to see it? Will the Guru still want to continue the practice to harm his student? Why would the Dalai Lama still let Trijang Rinpoche continue to practice it? Ok, so its a ploy then...