FPMT should repair samaya to Shugden for Lama Zopa's healing

[Mana]

Very sad news regarding Lama Zopa's serious stroke. We do hope he recovers very soon. It is time for FPMT to repair their broken samaya with Dharmaphala Dorje Shugden. Their broken commitments has led to manifesting their teacher Lama Zopa unable to speak and unable to verbally convey the dharma and Lama Osel not wanting connections with FPMT. The stroke has left Lama Zopa paralyzed on the left side of his body and his speech impaired. The stroke was very serious. Another stroke might be coming if the diabetes and high blood pressure does not come under control the doctors warned in Australia. The whole basis of FPMT has arisen from the Lamas' speech. So if the Lama cannot speak, it is a sign of tremendous obstacles to the dharma growth of FPMT in the future. Lama Zopa being such a intense practitioner, how can obstacles come to him? How can obstacles such as a stroke come to such a pure practitioner who has been able to gather the winds within his body? It must be the results of broken karmic commitments by FPMT on the whole to their root guru Lama Yeshe and practice. FPMT must apologize to Dorje Shugden. Request Dorje Shugden to take trance through the official oracle and ask advice for Lama Zopa's recovery as quickly as possible. No time to waste. Repair samayas. Dorje Shugden will have the most power and ability to manifest help and solutions for Lama Zopa to continue as he did before. FPMT around the world should immediately stop their condemnation of Dorje Shugden's practice. It is the practice of the founder of FPMT, Lama Yeshe. How can FPMT condemn their founding teacher's personal protector? It does not make sense. FPMT in order to get into the good books of the Tibetan Govt always condemns Shugden to others. It has been sad as their own lineage and lamas all practiced Dorje Shugden. Their lineage lamas such as Lama Yeshe, Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche all were very erudite practitioners of Dorje Shugden. FPMT needs Shugden now. As Lama Yeshe once said, FPMT grew very fast is due to the help of his Dharmaphala (Dorje Shugden).
Very sad news regarding Lama Zopa's serious stroke. We do hope he recovers very soon. It is time for FPMT to repair their broken samaya with Dharmaphala Dorje Shugden. Their broken commitments has led to manifesting their teacher Lama Zopa unable to speak and unable to verbally convey the dharma and Lama Osel not wanting connections with FPMT. The stroke has left Lama Zopa paralyzed on the left side of his body and his speech impaired. The stroke was very serious. Another stroke might be coming if the diabetes and high blood pressure does not come under control the doctors warned in Australia. The whole basis of FPMT has arisen from the Lamas' speech. So if the Lama cannot speak, it is a sign of tremendous obstacles to the dharma growth of FPMT in the future. Lama Zopa being such a intense practitioner, how can obstacles come to him? How can obstacles such as a stroke come to such a pure practitioner who has been able to gather the winds within his body? It must be the results of broken karmic commitments by FPMT on the whole to their root guru Lama Yeshe and practice. FPMT must apologize to Dorje Shugden. Request Dorje Shugden to take trance through the official oracle and ask advice for Lama Zopa's recovery as quickly as possible. No time to waste. Repair samayas. Dorje Shugden will have the most power and ability to manifest help and solutions for Lama Zopa to continue as he did before.

FPMT around the world should immediately stop their condemnation of Dorje Shugden's practice. It is the practice of the founder of FPMT, Lama Yeshe. How can FPMT condemn their founding teacher's personal protector? It does not make sense. FPMT in order to get into the good books of the Tibetan Govt always condemns Shugden to others. It has been sad as their own lineage and lamas all practiced Dorje Shugden. Their lineage lamas such as Lama Yeshe, Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche all were very erudite practitioners of Dorje Shugden. FPMT needs Shugden now. As Lama Yeshe once said, FPMT grew very fast is due to the help of his Dharmaphala (Dorje Shugden).

FPMT when soliciting Dorje Shugden is not doing something new but reconnecting with their original practice. Lama Yeshe could not be wrong to have practiced Dorje Shugden. If Lama Yeshe was wrong and without wisdom,then the whole foundation of FPMT is wrong. Lama Yeshe on the contrary was an attained being who practiced Dorje Shugden knowing he can remove obstacles to the growth of dharma. FPMT now should realize this and recall Dorje Shugden again for the sake of Lama Zopa. Forget political correctness, but adopt spiritual integrity again. Lama Yeshe can never be wrong and he left Shugden to help FPMT for after when he has gone. FPMT's centres all around the world must take up Shugden practice again even if Tibetan Govt doesn't like it. After all, the Tibetan Govt will not last, but the dharma FPMT propagates must last. Shugden can protect this dharma, the Tibetan Govt cannot. Dharma is much more important than politics.

Picture: Number 1-HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, one of the root gurus of Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa.
               Number 2-Lama Zopa Rinpoche
               Number 3-Lama Yeshe, the founder of FPMT and a great Shugden practitioner till the end of his life.

[Lineageholder]

This is very sad, and I hope that, for the sake of his students and all living beings, Rinpoche quickly recovers and continues to teach the Dharma for those who have a karmic connection with him.

With respect, I think it would be upsetting for someone from FPMT to read what's been written here.  They are clearly following the advice of their Guru, Lama Zopa Rinpoche, who says that they should not do Dorje Shugden practice in accordance with the advice of the Dalai Lama.  It's very possible that such words as written here could be seen as making political capital out of a very unfortunate situation, the sickness of their dear Teacher, and if it were me, I think I would be angry with Dorje Shugden practitioners for doing this.  Can you imagine how you would feel if your Lama was sick or died and some practitioners posted "oh, this happened because he practised Gyalpo Shugden against the advice of His Holiness"

I don't think that such statements are going to endear them to Shugden practitioners  so I'd like to request that this thread be deleted.

Thank you.

[Zach]

Lineage Holder does make a valid point. I think it would cause unpleasent disturbances in peoples minds regarding what is said about their teacher here.
http://www.lamayeshe.com/index.php?sect=article&id=335
The advise Lama Zopa gives in response shows that although he may be following the advise of HHDL he still does show great respect toward practitoners of Dorje shugden in a certain way so perhapes it is best we show an apt respect back and pray for his good health and longlife now is not the time for people to capitalise on this to try and point score. JMO 

[Lineageholder]

Just to make the point clear, this has just been posted on the Phayul forum under the topic heading "Lama Zopa's stroke: devil cult claims broken damtsig is cause The Yellow Book: new chapter?"

Suitably dramatic!

"It is time for FPMT to repair their broken samaya with Dharmaphala Dxxxxx Sxxxxxx. Their broken commitments has led to manifesting their teacher Lama Zopa unable to speak and unable to verbally convey the dharma " Sounds like The Yellow Book, which cost them everything in terms of respect and legitimacy, don't they learn from the mistakes of Trijang and Zhimey?

this perverse and unfortunate gloating sentiment is from the very moderator of the cult website, is typical of the convoluted and nasty mindset of the devil cultists. really the antithesis of dharmic thought.

http://www.dorjeshug...hp?topic=1158.0

Therefore, I would like to reiterate, hopefully without causing offence to anyone, that this subject is not very helpful or suitable at this time.

[vajralight]

I agree with lineageholder. The sentiments uttered by Mana could be seen as harsh and hurtful.

With regards to samaya, I wonder how it is possible that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche advices people to follow the Dalai Lama and NOT practise Dorje Shugden, when his Root Guru Zong Rinpoche was clearly a very devoted practitioner of our Protector Dorje Shugden. I must say..I am baffled. I try not to judge , I guess I just don't understand why Lama's of great caliber are so afraid of speaking out in favor of our Protector.

with respect,

vajra

[Zach]

I agree with lineageholder. The sentiments uttered by Mana could be seen as harsh and hurtful.

With regards to samaya, I wonder how it is possible that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche advices people to follow the Dalai Lama and NOT practise Dorje Shugden, when his Root Guru Zong Rinpoche was clearly a very devoted practitioner of our Protector Dorje Shugden. I must say..I am baffled. I try not to judge , I guess I just don't understand why Lama's of great caliber are so afraid of speaking out in favor of our Protector.

with respect,

vajra

I think you know why they are afraid. Ever read a history of HHDL's  previous incarnations ?
We do not know what other people do, Great Lama's have many ways of helping people do not forget that Buddha taught skillfully he
would not say the exact same thing to a person who was unsuitable to hear such. It is inappropriate to speculate about Great Lama's I think The Phayul extremists are busy giving inappropriate attention to certain things of which there is no concrete proof and It doesnt benifit anyone.
Anyway I dont think this thread is appropriate point scoring is not something we should be doing now ! Praying for Lama Zopas health and longlife is. 

 

[beggar]

I find it interesting that you think this thread is political. I think it makes a lot of sense, very clearly and deals with quite a serious issue of how we follow our teachers' advice (or not).

Yes, some people are sincerely following the advice of their teacher Lama Zopa and may even be very new, so they didn't come at a time when Lama Yeshe was there and practised Dorje Shugden openly. For them, they may never have practiced, so I think, technically, they don't break any samaya since they are cleanly and purely following the advice of Lama Zopa.

However, I think what Mana refers to, is people who have studied under Lama Yeshe and consider him their teacher but are now going against his very wishes and the practices that he may he may even have personally bestowed onto them. Forsaking any dharma, as we know and are taught, creates the immediate cause to be separated from the Dharma and not to be able to receive teachings.

I agree with you  that Lama Zopa's advice about the Dorje Shugden has been very balanced, gentle, respectful and that he does not ever speak a bad word against the Dalai Lama. It is never a problem with the Lamas, but with the students and how they are taking that advice and practicing quietly, humbly, or using it as fuel against others.

I myself sadly, do know of FPMT members who have turned the whole DS ban around to be very bullying of dorje shugden practitioners, and turn it into a kind of power game or popularity game or use it to ostracise other members of the Buddhist community. I'm quite quite sure Lama Zopa would not have taught them to be that way. So why are they acting in a way that would be contradictory to what he has been teaching? Karmically, this definitely can create causes for us to be separate from our teachers or for our teachers to leave us.

So I don't think this posting was meant to hurt or harm anyone, but for ALL practitioners (not just FPMT) to consider how we act always, and how we may or may not be interpreting our teachers' advice correctly or in kind or helpful ways.

[DSFriend]

Thinking of Lama Zopa brings to mind images of him smiling, always smiling. He travels and teaches non-stop and have endured so much ...willingly and gladly without any selfish care for his own welfare. Such a great master who teaches us by example how to rid ourselves of sufferings.

It was Dorje Shugden who recognized Lama Zopa. It was Lama Yeshe, a Dorje Shugden practitioner who started FPMT.  On this simple premise, I see Dorje Shugden working with the Lamas to manifest FPMT,  even long before FPMT came about.

How would  FPMT have reacted if Lama Zopa told them to DISREGARD  the ban imposed by HHDL and continue practicing Dorje Shugden?  Would they have taken it well and not be affected? I am not part of FPMT and am not asking these questions to put down FPMT in any way...I dare not and see no reasons to. I believe the instruction to follow what HHDL says must be Lama Zopa's compassion and skillful ways to protect and ensure the students' minds are in a good state for practice.


But now if I was a student of Lama Zopa, what should I do at this point, seeing my Lama manifest ill health.

Mana's point is very clear that it's time for the students to reflect from where and who they have been receiving the dharma from.

I would seriously consider going to Dorje Shugden oracle for help so Lama Zopa remains in good health and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma...afterall it is Dorje Shugden who recognised Lama Zopa. If he didn't make a mistake in his recognition, i doubt he'll start to make mistakes now.

I would introspect and repair any broken samaya to create the right causes for my lama to remain.

I hear the point made by LIneageholder, Zach and Vajralight. What I love about this forum is that participants are respectful of others and conscientious of what we say to not offend anyone.

I do feel that this thread should stay as it shouldn't be about FPMT anymore. It shouldn't be about us anymore....it should be about Lama Zopa, a great being who has given his life for countless. It should be about Lama Yeshe. I pray FPMT will do all they can to create the right conditions for their spiritual guides to remain and always be close to a perfect Guru...

I pray that FPMT will continue to flourish and be a mighty force to bring the dharma worldwide and for this institution to always receive blessings from the lineage masters. May Lama Zopa, Lama Yeshe and all the lamas live long.

[Barzin]

Lama Zopa being such a intense practitioner, how can obstacles come to him? How can obstacles such as a stroke come to such a pure practitioner who has been able to gather the winds within his body? It must be the results of broken karmic commitments by FPMT on the whole to their root guru Lama Yeshe and practice.

It is very very sad to have heard about Lama Zopa's condition.  Such highly attained being need to suffer for our negative karma.  It must be our collective negative karma that led to circumstances like this.  If what Mana wrote is true, then I think it is really high time that the FPMT repaired their broken samaya; seek advice from the oracle.  That is the only way if they could help the lama to get better.  Dharma comes from our guru, we must preserve the karmic connection with our guru so we will be able to receive dharma.  If going against guru or broken samaya, just like what beggar had said, it creates the causes for us to be separated from our guru.  In such circumstances, I think it is time to look into the issue seriously and not politically.

I pray and wish for Lama Zopa speedy recovery and continue to spread dharma far and wide.

[Mana]

This is very sad, and I hope that, for the sake of his students and all living beings, Rinpoche quickly recovers and continues to teach the Dharma for those who have a karmic connection with him.

With respect, I think it would be upsetting for someone from FPMT to read what's been written here.  They are clearly following the advice of their Guru, Lama Zopa Rinpoche, who says that they should not do Dorje Shugden practice in accordance with the advice of the Dalai Lama.  It's very possible that such words as written here could be seen as making political capital out of a very unfortunate situation, the sickness of their dear Teacher, and if it were me, I think I would be angry with Dorje Shugden practitioners for doing this.  Can you imagine how you would feel if your Lama was sick or died and some practitioners posted "oh, this happened because he practised Gyalpo Shugden against the advice of His Holiness"

I don't think that such statements are going to endear them to Shugden practitioners  so I'd like to request that this thread be deleted.

Thank you.

I am appreciative of your concern that this might hurt some of the newer FPMT people. Remember a few things:

1. This is in no way political. It is spiritual. Guru samaya is of the upmost  importance. There is no criticism against Lama Zopa whatseover. There is no intent to criticize Lama Zopa whatsoever. If it is read as so, it is wrong interpretation.

2. Other sites will take whatever we write in this website and twist it around as they are against Dorje Shugden. It does not matter what we write. They will marginalize us anyway irregardless.  It does not matter what they say or think.

3. Dalai Lama said if his students practice Shugden, it might shorten his life. Well if your lama (Lama Yeshe) tells you to practice and you don't, wouldn't that break samaya and bring you heavy karmic consequences?

4. As usual, the other sites are here daily and reading whatever we post, and they can call this a cult or whatever they choose, it does not affect any of us. Other sites/forum goers definitely visit this site often. If what we say and write is so bad, then no need to visit us, no need to ccopy and paste our comments or even discuss what we write here on this forum/website elsewhere (phayul). What we say does have impact, therefore the visitors. In the end, we will see who is the cult. As this site harms no one but promotes Shugden's practice and creates awareness of the ban. Promoting Shugden's practice and awareness of the ban can be two seperate issues and even becoming different websites, but this site has everything, so you pick and choose what you are interested in. In the end, all of us being together and having solidarity/one voice would be more effective. After we have accomplished our goal of having the band lifted, WE CAN SEPERATE AND GO OUR MERRY WAYS and not have to do anything together again.

5. We are always saying the lamas should be brave and stand up and oppose the ban. Well not only the lamas should speak up, but we should speak up. Do you not think just by abandoning one's practices given by your root lama at the insistence of the Dalai Lama will not bring consequences? I am speaking up. I am saying we should not give up our own samaya with our own guru. And if we do, then there should be karmic consequences by the law of cause and effect. If there are none, then why don't we all just give up our Shugden practice. Whether it is wrong or right, just give it up because the Dalai Lama said so. Well FPMT gave it up because the Dalai Lama said so, are there no karmic consequences? Should we speak up and let FPMT know by giving up one of the heart practices of Lama Yeshe, they have severely damaged their samayas. Why should the Dalai Lama be able to override Lama Yeshe. If he can override Lama Yeshe, then he can override all the our teachers. If that is the case, we should all give up Shugden?  Why is Lama Zopa sick when he is such an accomplished practitioner? The samaya of FPMT with Lama Yeshe is broken and it falls onto Lama Zopa's compassionate body.

If the rest of us just give up our practices given by our teachers, does that not equal some lost of faith or breakage of samaya with our teachers? If it does, it should have karmic consequences? Wouldn't the karma bring you negative consequences for breaking your word?

6. I am not happy Lama Zopa is ill. Our team at this website have made offerings and prayers for his recovery. We very much wish Lama Zopa to be well, but we also realize there is a cause for the current illness. FPMT should realize. If they can realize, then many things would be different for worldwide Shugden practice. FPMT will have impact in what they do on the rest of us one way or another. I am hoping against hope for a positive impact that they will realize their teacher's life/work is at stake, ask Shugden for help again. We want Lama Zopa ok and Shugden is the right one to help. Why does a high lama need a so called Kandro from Dharamsala to help. It looks odd and inappropriate to a high lama like Lama Zopa.I have nothing against the Kandro, but Shugden is the old and powerful friend FPMT started with. So continue again.
 
7. Certain Christian followers will call Tibetan Buddhists all devil worshippers and Dalai Lama is the anti-christ and his lama followers are his minions. So what? Shugden practitioners have been hurt, ostracized, demonized and damaged terribly. We must speak up. We must make our thoughts known through this website against the ban. The best way is to create awareness of Shugden in order for the ban to be lifted or inactive in the near future. Education/information is the best way for the ban to fade faster. This website is set up precisely for that purpose. 

8. What I write here is in my capacity as a single person, it does not represent everyone in the website team. I am a moderator, but I have my own thoughts also. I wish to make this clear, it is my thoughts alone regarding Lama Zopa's unfortunate illness. I wish him to heal quickly.

I again, mean no one offense to Lama Zopa/FPMT or anyone else. But I do feel strongly in the samaya breakage issue. I do appreciate Lineageholder's request. I can see Lineageholder in this post is very genuine and I thank Lineageholder.  I will consider removing my post but for the time being keep this thread live/active.

Mana

[Mana]

I agree with lineageholder. The sentiments uttered by Mana could be seen as harsh and hurtful.

With regards to samaya, I wonder how it is possible that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche advices people to follow the Dalai Lama and NOT practise Dorje Shugden, when his Root Guru Zong Rinpoche was clearly a very devoted practitioner of our Protector Dorje Shugden. I must say..I am baffled. I try not to judge , I guess I just don't understand why Lama's of great caliber are so afraid of speaking out in favor of our Protector.

with respect,

vajra

I think you know why they are afraid. Ever read a history of HHDL's  previous incarnations ?
We do not know what other people do, Great Lama's have many ways of helping people do not forget that Buddha taught skillfully he
would not say the exact same thing to a person who was unsuitable to hear such. It is inappropriate to speculate about Great Lama's I think The Phayul extremists are busy giving inappropriate attention to certain things of which there is no concrete proof and It doesnt benifit anyone.
Anyway I dont think this thread is appropriate point scoring is not something we should be doing now ! Praying for Lama Zopas health and longlife is. 

 

It does not make any difference what a few persons on phayul writes. If you read their other posts and level of understanding, you will realize it is not worth your time or effort to debate with them. They blindly proclaim negativities about the Bodhisattva Shugden.

What we say here affects them,because it is the truth. The Tibetan Govt's undemocratic ban and it's continual enforcement is undemocratic and unethical to say the least.

There are many good followers of Dalai Lama and also fanatics. The fanatics do not have the capacity to examine deeper or contemplate. They just do as they are told for their own insecurities/agendas. Do not take any bother with them. We should stick together in one voice and one goal here. This forum is read by hundreds and visted by thousands. What we say here will plant seeds in other people's minds against the unjust ban. It will highlight how holy and sacred Shugden's practice is. We have to persevere to accomplish a dual goal: Remove the ban or at least let it come to a quicker end. Secondly to bring the information of Shugden's practice to many in order to benefit them on their spiritual journey. Shugden is such a perfect protector for today's obtacles.

Some may like to be on this forum, some may not. Some may say they agree and some may not, it does not matter. They all visit this forum anyways. The reason is because we are discussing real issues here and it is completely open to the public whether you are a member or not. We are honest and open on our feelings here. We are not afraid to express our opinions here. We gather here to express as there are not many other public places Shugden's interests are allowed to be expressed. So we should take full advantage here. We have our goals to achieve, and this forum can contribute to our goals.

Mana

[Zach]

How would the FPMT go about mending their Samaya with their lineage masters ? even if they recognised the causes ? His Holiness wrote forwards in Geshe Kelsangs books before 1996 what would happen if the directorship at the FPMT suddenly decided these where the causes as suggested here and then disregarded HHDL's advise on the grounds of re-establishing an already damaged Samaya with their gurus. Dont forget many newer practitoners with them would consider HH the synthesis of all root gurus...Gee the resulting schism of such would be enough to keep many in avici for many an aeon.

[Mana]

Just to make the point clear, this has just been posted on the Phayul forum under the topic heading "Lama Zopa's stroke: devil cult claims broken damtsig is cause The Yellow Book: new chapter?"

Suitably dramatic!

"It is time for FPMT to repair their broken samaya with Dharmaphala Dxxxxx Sxxxxxx. Their broken commitments has led to manifesting their teacher Lama Zopa unable to speak and unable to verbally convey the dharma " Sounds like The Yellow Book, which cost them everything in terms of respect and legitimacy, don't they learn from the mistakes of Trijang and Zhimey?

this perverse and unfortunate gloating sentiment is from the very moderator of the cult website, is typical of the convoluted and nasty mindset of the devil cultists. really the antithesis of dharmic thought.

http://www.dorjeshug...hp?topic=1158.0

Therefore, I would like to reiterate, hopefully without causing offence to anyone, that this subject is not very helpful or suitable at this time.

Well the people of phayul will certain bring more traffic to dorjeshugden.com with their post. In bringing more people here, more can read other views on Shugden. It might open some eyes that otherwise would have never opened.  Remember the whole reason Shugden is so famous/well known now is because of all the negative things said about him and the ban. The more negative things said about this website and forum will peak people's interests and bring more here. Welcome. The more they visit, the more truth can be read.

These are the truths:

1. The lamas who practices Dorje Shugden past, present and future are great beings and have the wisdom/learning to know Shugden is a great being also and in fact fully enlightened.

2. The ban is undemocratic, illegal, and has created much suffering. It should be lifted. There should be no restrictions on any religious practices. Dalai Lama should not speak against Shugden, the lamas who practice and have the people who practice Shugden be marginalized.

3. Shugden will continue to grow. Dalai Lama and the temporary Tibetan Govt will not stop the practice now or in the future.

4. Shugden's practice has brought no harm to anyone ever.

5. It is a matter of time that Dalai Lama's ban on Shugden will fade.

Mana

[Mana]

How would the FPMT go about mending their Samaya with their lineage masters ? even if they recognised the causes ? His Holiness wrote forwards in Geshe Kelsangs books before 1996 what would happen if the directorship at the FPMT suddenly decided these where the causes as suggested here and then disregarded HHDL's advise on the grounds of re-establishing an already damaged Samaya with their gurus. Dont forget many newer practitoners with them would consider HH the synthesis of all root gurus...Gee the resulting schism of such would be enough to keep many in avici for many an aeon.

Simple. FPMT should resume practicing Dorje Shugden because their founding guru is Lama Yeshe. They must continue to practice what Lama Yeshe based FPMT on. FPMT was not founded based on the practices of Dalai Lama.  Either way many are going to avici. So listening to Dalai Lama, old practitioners go to avici. Don't listen to Dalai Lama and the new ones go to Avici. FPMT has created that situation for their yearning to be politically correct. So now there is no easy way out unfortunately. They have to start somewhere. The best is to go back to their fundamental roots/practices as set forth by Lama Yeshe. Yes either way, there are damages, but again, I didn't create those damages with my posts here, but FPMT did it. They became well known because they tow the line with Dalai Lama's ban, but there are repercussions for breaking samaya with Lama Yeshe. There are karmic repercussions for breaking their commitments. Karma is universal. Unfortunately, fame in this case, comes with a price. But all is not lost, it can be repaired. I hope they do repair.

Who is sending students to avici in FPMT? Lama Yeshe for giving the practice of Shugden or Dalai Lama for banning it? You please think.

The old FPMT people who were practicing Shugden especially the ones with sogtae (Shugden initiation) should renew their samaya with Lama Yeshe and resume with their practice of Shugden. The new FPMT people  can perhaps break away and follow just the Dalai Lama. Again, there is no easy way out.  From this, FPMT can re-start anew. Not easy. But the solutions is not to abandon Shugden, Lama Yeshe's heart practice.

FPMT and all dharma people should honour our vows, pledges and sacred words of honour to our gurus. Samaya should be taken very seriously and withstand all politics and bans. We must make a stand and show by example our commitments should be protected like we would protect our eyes. We should not give up our commitments no matter what. Keeping our commitments are the roots of all tantric attainments. Being politically right serves us temporarily but in the long run is very damaging. Keeping our commitments may be politically 'dangerous' for now, but it serves us well in the long run. We should think of the long run. FPMT must repair their samaya with Lama Yeshe and Dorje Shugden. It is what they have commited to prior to the ban and Tibetan Govt's interferences/political agendas.

What sends anyone to avici is not Shugden. He has no power to send anyone to avici. But broken words of honour. Broken tantric commitments. Losing faith in our guru and abandoning practices.

Mana

(Below is the holy Dorje Shugden statue that once belonged to Lama Yeshe and it was placed in Kopan Monastery all the time, Lama Yeshe prayed to Dorje Shugden till the end, he never gave up his commitments to his Gurus, but after Lama Yeshe passed away and the Dorje Shugden issue became big, Kopan Monastery gave away this statue to Tsawa Pulthok Rinpoche (from Drepung Loseling Monastery) in Nepal. Before Tsawa Pulthok Rinpoche passed away in 2008, he gave this statue to Gangchen Ladrang, Nepal. This holy statue is being propitiated in Gangchen Ladrang ever since.)

[Helena]

Wow..this has turned into quite a big discussion.

I do not speak for everyone here but myself. And I have only this to share -

Whatever anyone writes, be it true or false, our own reactions and response to it ARE the very things that REVEAL what's in our own hearts and minds.

If broken samayas do not sit well with you, then you have to ask yourself, why just reading certain things or seeing certain words could cause you so much discomfort and unrest.

I am just citing an example here.

I know several FPMT people/students, some from Lama Yeshe's time and some only joined during Lama Zopa's time. There is a lot of history behind their so-called abandonment of Dorje Shugden practice.

FPMT themselves would know what has transpired, I mean, really transpired. They may not want to share and open up for all to see. Just like no center or any organization wishes to show their own dirty laundry to the public. They had their own reasons and this is why they are in the state they are now. They know, I am sure, they know.

Whether they want to do something about it or not, it is up to them. But let's not just focus on the politics of this thread and forget the spirituality of this thread. Again, all I see is a question and discussion on Samaya and how valuable is that to students of every organization.

I, for one, appreciate this thread because it brings to my mind what I need to evaluate about my samaya with my Guru. It reminds me on what is important and not wait until my own Guru gets ill or suffers a stroke and then I start to transform or do better.

This thread has given a lot to contemplate on. And for that, I do appreciate it a lot. After all, the samaya we hold with our Guru is of highest importance. Our vows with our Gurus present the very heart of our practice, the key to our enlightenment. So, that is what I look into with this thread. I am not interested in the politics of it all. I am only interested in how this thread has helped me to look deeper into my own samaya with my own Guru.

Perhaps I choose to look at things differently and may be that will not go well with some of the people here. But this whole issue of Lama Zopa's sickness and the reminder for us to look into our own samayas with our Gurus ARE IMPORTANT LESSONS for all students, if they really value their Gurus and practice as they say.

So, this is what I can suggest - what each of you have chosen to see in this thread reveals exactly where you are in your own practice and what's important to you right now. Note, I used the word: suggest.

I can only see the issue of samaya and how important that is to me. Nothing more. I do not conclude anything bad or better on FPMT nor am I judging anyone else.

I pray that Lama Zopa heals swiftly so that Lama Zopa can turn the wheel of Dharma even more and for a longer time. Buddha knows we need all the light we can get in this crazy time of darkness that disguises itself as light.

Thank you, Mana, for highlighting how important samaya is for every student, regardless of which school, lineage and Guru we stem from.

May all precious Gurus have long lives and good health.

May all students attain realizations swiftly, so that they can become an asset to their Gurus and aid their Gurus in benefiting others.