Dakini healing Lama Zopa?

[thaimonk]

FPMT has contacted this Tibetan woman and oracle to help Lama Zopa heal. Suddenly FPMT have such tremendous faith in her. FPMT says that she is not taking trance of a dakini but SHE IS A LIVING DAKINI.

She originally came from Tibet and during a public teaching with Dalai Lama in Dharamsala starting to take trance. Dalai Lama accepted she takes trance of a Goddess (Tema).

Years ago, Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa relied fully on Shugden and Shugden oracle to help them. Lama Yeshe relied on the Shugden oracle till the end of his days. Does it seem inappropriate they are relying on a Dakini now instead of Shugden?  Either way, FPMT is really on a oracle. Shouldn't Lama Zopa being a high lama be more 'powerful' than the dakini from Dharamsala.

I am not sure of this. I don't have any negative thoughts or such. I was just wondering. What do you all think?

[Helena]

I think the students are doing their best, at their level to save their Lama Zopa.

Key operative word being, at their level.

Their collective awareness is reflected in the 'remedies' which they choose to employ in saving their Guru.

Here, I mean, awareness in the real sense. Meaning, realization.

If the students are still rooted in thinking that they must comply with the wishes of HHDL and not resurrect their practice of Dorje Shugden, then that is their level of awareness.

If there are students who see beyond and would think deeper, then they will do much more and perhaps even make the effort to invite back the late Lama Yeshe's statue from Nepal. With the statue back in its rightful 'home', they could start their first Dorje Shugden puja since its ban. And continue from there.

Again, I stress, their collective awareness and realization would determine what they do.

And the results will inevitably speak for themselves.

This is, of course, just my simple and humble opinion.

I have no great knowledge or understanding. Nor do I claim to have.

So, pardon me for seeing it so simply. This is my level.




 

[dsiluvu]

The Dakini is also an unenlightened spirit, no?
So if FPMT can ask a dakini for help which is = a spirit then I suppose Dorje Shugden is no biggie?

It really does not make any sense to me and I find that to stop any precious teachings given by the Lama is in itself breaking samaya?

Why is Lama Zopa now manifesting sickness? Exactly what is the teaching he is giving to all? Definitely it has nothing to do with slandering others who are practicing Dorje Shugden.

I really hope Lama Zopa will reverse his condition for he definitely has the power and is attained to do just so.

He is manifesting death itself is a teaching and how compassionate to allow his students to directly make offerings to Lama Zopa. WoW! Amazing lama

[DharmaDefender]

I think Lama Zopa's students would do well to remember their own guru's teachings on how to extend the life of their lama. Like what dsiluvu said, how comes they can ask a spirit for help but cannot rely on Dorje Shugden? How can they entrust their lama's long life to a spirit, but apparently practicing Dorje Shugden will shorten his life?

No offence and I'm sure they all mean well (and I sincerely mean that), but relying on an unenlightened being, after breaking their protector practice, kind of smacks of desperation and hypocrisy.

[triesa]

I think the students are doing their best, at their level to save their Lama Zopa.

Key operative word being, at their level.

Their collective awareness is reflected in the 'remedies' which they choose to employ in saving their Guru.

Here, I mean, awareness in the real sense. Meaning, realization.

If the students are still rooted in thinking that they must comply with the wishes of HHDL and not resurrect their practice of Dorje Shugden, then that is their level of awareness.

If there are students who see beyond and would think deeper, then they will do much more and perhaps even make the effort to invite back the late Lama Yeshe's statue from Nepal. With the statue back in its rightful 'home', they could start their first Dorje Shugden puja since its ban. And continue from there.

Again, I stress, their collective awareness and realization would determine what they do.

And the results will inevitably speak for themselves.

This is, of course, just my simple and humble opinion.

I have no great knowledge or understanding. Nor do I claim to have.

So, pardon me for seeing it so simply. This is my level.




 

I am on the same page as Helena.  The students are doing their best at their collective awareness and level..... to them , to seek help from a Dakini  is the appropraite method to help save their lama's life. However,  and this is also just my opinion, that if a lama manifests sickness or near death sickness during a teaching, in this case Lama Zopa's speech is greatly impaired;  it must be due to heavy broken samaya if only the students can think a little deeper.

I have heard stories before that some high lamas, no matter how sick or ill they are during a teaching, they will endure the sickness and finish the teaching before they fall sick.  For Lama's Zopa, clearly everyone can see that the students DO NOT have the merits for their lama to give them the teachings.....as indicated by the stroke which caused speech impairment.

[Big Uncle]

Well, the very fact that FPMT is relying on a Dakini to heal their Lama shows that they are insecure about their samaya and the pujas that they can do to heal their own Lama. How much can this Dakini (enlightened or not) heal the Lama when the elders of the organisation know it is through clean samaya and sincere propitiation is the only way to purify lots of negative karma and move Lama Zopa to remain.

On top of that, they seemed to imply that the oracle lady is an enlightened dakini when she is not. Last time I checked, the goddess Tenma is a powerful but unenlightened mountain goddess of Tibet. Why rely on an unenlightened deity like Tenma? This all seemed very strange to me. I don't think the politically correct elders would dare propitiated Dorje Shugden but in actuality, he is the only one who can help save the situation now. It is so sad.

[whitelion]

Hi all,

I do believe there's dakini in our world, and some of the dakini actually have very strong ability to do something that we lay people can not do, such as healing someone. But in this special case, if someone told me actually this dakini have the power to heal an enlightened being who is totally free from suffering or karma, i might have doubts, not because of the dakini but the whole story just doesn't make any sense to me.

If Lama Zopa a real tulku, which i totally believe Rinpoche is, Rinpoche will have the full control of his body, speech and mind. Rinpoche can manifest in any appearance or situation to help others, this is no doubts.
Rinpoche will needs no one to show him what to do or needs someone to heal Rinpoche. That's no one can heal Rinpoche if Zopa Rinpoche decide to remain manifest in this situation. Because all Tulkus have FULL control of their life.

So i don't think the dakini can contribute much in this issue, regardless she is enlightened or not.

The only reason that i can think of why Lama Zopa Rinpoche still decided to have the dakini to "heal" him, it's because  he want the students to gain a lot of merit through sponsor Rinpoche's daily expenses, to sponsor long life pujas. With the merit that the students have collected, may he/she's mind be stable and able to receive more dharma.

just some sharing, what do you think ?

much care,

[heartjewel]

Dakini Healing Lama Zopa.  Lama Zopa can heal himself if he choose   to. But he choose not to because he wants to show his students that sufferings are the results ands cause of negative Karma committed and is ripening. He has manisfested these sufferings a nd sickness on himself through his compassion of taking others sufferings to show his students as an example of negative Karma ripening. As for the Dakini that Lama Zopa has allowed to heal him. How do you know she is not a manisfestation of a Buddha either. If Deities can enter into an Oracle to heal so can this happen to show people that Buddhas can manisfest in any form or in whom.

[thaimonk]

Lama Zopa can heal himself. It would be good for the students to consult Shugden how to create the merits for that to happen.

[DSFriend]

FPMT has faith in a Dakini but stay away from Dorje Shugden who is the protector of Lama  Yeshe and who recognized Lama Zopa's current incarnation.

FPMT is obviously looking for guidance and help. What's the worse which could happen if FPMT consults Dorje Shugden oracle?

The priority is to do everything possible so that an illustrious master like Lama Zopa remains and continue to turn the wheel of dharma.

[Vajraprotector]

FPMT has faith in a Dakini but stay away from Dorje Shugden who is the protector of Lama  Yeshe and who recognized Lama Zopa's current incarnation.

FPMT is obviously looking for guidance and help. What's the worse which could happen if FPMT consults Dorje Shugden oracle?

Since FPMT are supposed to not have anything to do with Shugden, I wonder if they have the access to a Shugden oracle. I personally think it is highly unlikely that they would seek advice from a Shugden oracle even if they have access to him. Too bad but they (FPMT) have made the choice. It is very clear from their guidelines re not inviting teachers who are Shugden practitioners.

I re-read an article in Mandala magazine re Khadro-la (the oracle) and also Ven. Roger Kunsang (personal attendant & secretary to Lama Zopa Rinpoche) and found some interesting information:


1. There was a mention of rumours - possible threat  to Khadro-la to be assasinated by Shugden worshipers in the past.  

Ven. Roger: Where were you living? Outside the monastery or somewhere else?

Khadro-la: “A house was given to me by the private office within Namgyal Monastery. It’s the same house I live in today. It was during that time when the teacher in the Dialectic School was murdered by the group of Shugden worshipers, and there were rumors that I too would be assassinated. The monks of Namgyal Monastery were very concerned about my safety. That’s how we became close. Actually, I tried to refuse their protection. I told them that if my fate is to be killed, then nothing can make it not happen, but that if my karma is not to die, the Shugden worshippers cannot harm me. The monks didn’t listen to me and they continuously took good care of me


2. There was a mention of a special lineage of practice from the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama. I wonder what it is.

Ven. Roger: Can you talk about the ways you can help the Dalai Lama?

Khadro-la: “I have a goal: there is a vast, outstanding lineage of teaching, empowerment and instruction by the Great Fifth Dalai Lama. It’s now been about 360 years since he first revealed them, and since then, it hasn’t been possible to reveal them completely again. I feel a strong karmic connection with this special lineage, so my sole wish is to restore this entire lineage for His Holiness. He can pass it to many others and I myself am very interested in practicing this lineage.

“Also, I am planning a retreat center specially dedicated for this practice. I wish to have a small group of serious practitioners there. Maybe they could be geshes who have completed the study of Madyamaka Prajñ?p?ramit? and who have the strong will for the practice but are looking for a suitable environment. If I can accomplish this, it will be a very good offering to His Holiness which I am confident will be the milestone cause for his long life. It is a very important teaching related to this entire world and there is no doubt that it is also important for the Tibetan cause. I think that when His Holiness calls Lama Zopa Rinpoche and Dagri Rinpoche his beloved disciples, he means because of their relation to this lineage."

Link to original article: http://www.mandalamagazine.org/archives/mandala-issues-for-2009/january/interview-with-a-dakini/

[honeydakini]

I just HAD to click on this since it's about dakinis!

I don't think there is any harm in consulting enlightened beings, oracles, dharma protectors for help or advice, though we should really only consult them if they're enlightened. I don't really understand the point in consulting someone who is unenlightened  since you open the doors for so many other potentially harmful beings to come in and disturb you.

As to this case of Lama Zopa's illness, i don't think anything would work better than for the students to check in on themselves - what commitments they have broken, or what actions they have done that would be against what their teachers have advised or taught them. Perhaps it is not something that they have directly disobeyed, it could even be something that isn't as obvious like creating schism among Dharma practitioners, or creating doubt in other people's minds about their practices and their teachers.

I personally think it's quite silly to consult a dakini when your own enlightened teacher is right there. If you consult a dakini (whether she's enlightened or not), that is to say that your teacher doesn't have any control over his own body! I'm sure an enlightened teacher like Lama Zopa would have full control over his health and illnesses. (he has full control over his rebirths, as a tulku, but no control over illness? it doesn't make sense). So If our lama has control, that means that he has already taught us the means to heal him - which i'm sure would be, like all teachers advise us, to follow his instructions to us and practice and improve our minds. That would be so much more powerful than a dakini's advice - because whatever the dakini could "prescribe" , I'm sure it isn't something that Lama Zopa is beyond doing for himself.

[thor]

FPMT has contacted this Tibetan woman and oracle to help Lama Zopa heal. Suddenly FPMT have such tremendous faith in her. FPMT says that she is not taking trance of a dakini but SHE IS A LIVING DAKINI.

She originally came from Tibet and during a public teaching with Dalai Lama in Dharamsala starting to take trance. Dalai Lama accepted she takes trance of a Goddess (Tema).

Years ago, Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa relied fully on Shugden and Shugden oracle to help them. Lama Yeshe relied on the Shugden oracle till the end of his days. Does it seem inappropriate they are relying on a Dakini now instead of Shugden?  Either way, FPMT is really on a oracle. Shouldn't Lama Zopa being a high lama be more 'powerful' than the dakini from Dharamsala.

I am not sure of this. I don't have any negative thoughts or such. I was just wondering. What do you all think?

I think FPMT would be better off directing their efforts towards requesting Lama Zopa to extend his life and heal himself. Long life prayers, rituals and individual transformation and purification of wrong actions would be more effective than medical treatment or mystical help from the oracle. If the lama can manifest sickness, then of course the lama will be able to make the sickness heal. And there is no reason for the lama to become ill, or to shorten his life, unless it is a method towards something much greater. My own lama has often told me that no matter how many prayers the students do, how many requests they make, how much medicine and treatment they offer to their lama, none of that will have effect if the lama does not wish to heal. So FPMT should direct their attention towards analysing what it is they should do to please the mind of their lama that he will extend his life.

[DharmaDefender]

FPMT has contacted this Tibetan woman and oracle to help Lama Zopa heal. Suddenly FPMT have such tremendous faith in her. FPMT says that she is not taking trance of a dakini but SHE IS A LIVING DAKINI.

She originally came from Tibet and during a public teaching with Dalai Lama in Dharamsala starting to take trance. Dalai Lama accepted she takes trance of a Goddess (Tema).

Years ago, Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa relied fully on Shugden and Shugden oracle to help them. Lama Yeshe relied on the Shugden oracle till the end of his days. Does it seem inappropriate they are relying on a Dakini now instead of Shugden?  Either way, FPMT is really on a oracle. Shouldn't Lama Zopa being a high lama be more 'powerful' than the dakini from Dharamsala.

I am not sure of this. I don't have any negative thoughts or such. I was just wondering. What do you all think?

I think FPMT would be better off directing their efforts towards requesting Lama Zopa to extend his life and heal himself. Long life prayers, rituals and individual transformation and purification of wrong actions would be more effective than medical treatment or mystical help from the oracle. If the lama can manifest sickness, then of course the lama will be able to make the sickness heal. And there is no reason for the lama to become ill, or to shorten his life, unless it is a method towards something much greater. My own lama has often told me that no matter how many prayers the students do, how many requests they make, how much medicine and treatment they offer to their lama, none of that will have effect if the lama does not wish to heal. So FPMT should direct their attention towards analysing what it is they should do to please the mind of their lama that he will extend his life.

Give your teacher a reason to stay. That's what mine always says.

[Barzin]

Hmm... This is rather interesting...

I was just thinking.  Lama Zopa being so highly attained.  We all know that he is able to control his body and manifest in whichever way.  And now he is having speech problem, his speech was unclear therefore it is very difficult for the students to understand him.  Which means, no advice was given and students had to rely on their best thinking to create the merits for Lama Zopa to recover.

But I am just having a thought, thinking that is it some hint or a situation that Lama Zopa manifested and keeping silent; so that out of no choice the students eventually had to seek for Shugden's advice? Is that a possibility?  Because I was just thinking if Lama Zopa was heal after seeking for Shugden; the whole story would turn into Shugden saved Lama Zopa! 

Just a thought, it could be or could not be.. What you guys think?