Anti-Shugden Chakras

[LosangKhyentse]

The previous Dudjom Rinpoche (pictured below) was well known to indiscriminately speak against Dorje Shugden. He seemed to be quite a sectarian anti-Gelug person. He had no right to criticize any Gelug protectors or the Gelug Lineage in any way. He was even arrested in North India and thrown into jail for a short while, till the Tibetan Govt in the 70's intervened and got him out.

He built a small Monastery in Kathmandu that was infamous for having a Dorje Drolod statue stepping on Shugden and tearing Shugden's heart out. Previous 17th Karmapa was very displeased with this representation according to Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche's writings. In Tibet there is no such representation with Dorje Drolod stepping on Shugden. It was a new creation by Dudjom Rinpoche while he was in Nepal. He created alot of negative sentiments with his anit-Shugden rhetorics. This was way before the ban. This was already happening in the late 80's.

Dudjom Rinpoche also came up with Anti-Shugden chakras (pictured below). You take these chakras, fold and tied with multi colored string. Then pujas done according to Dudjom Rinpoche.  Afterwards, the person wearing this chakra is protected from all 'harm' and 'ill influence' of Dorje Shugden. It was a small rage in Kathmandu for a short while and then died down. I mean, think about it, there are millions of negative powerful spirits, but there is a special chakra just to counter Shugden? I mean they really are fearful of Shugden. Shugden sure is a super powerful being.

I find it quite amusing and at the same time interesting that a so called high ranking personage such as Dudjom Rinpoche would bring himself to create such chakras and protect people against Shugden. If Shugden was or is a evil spirit, I don't think a chakra would protect anyone. How can a folded piece of paper be more powerful than fire pujas and other rites?  Fire pujas and rituals have been done against Shugden many times. How come so many high ranking lamas cannot eliminate Shugden? Is Shugden more powerful than all of them? If he is, that does not say much for these Lamas. Think about it, if Shugden is powerful enough to harm the Dalai Lama (of course Shugden harms nobody), how can a piece a paper with scorpions protect you ? Doesn't make sense in any way. Unless Shugden is not an evil spirit, but an attained being therefore invincible.

The chakras are very interesting nevertheless.

TK

[thaimonk]

I am so sorry to say this but, these chakras make Dudjom Rinpoche look below his station. Below his status. It makes him look petty. I do not mean to criticize him, but grand lamas such as himself should not concern themselves with Dorje Shugden at all.

Look at the 16th Karmapa who never uttered one word to criticize Shugden. In fact Karmapa was very close and friendly with the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche never criticized Shugden ever. HH Penor Rinpoche never criticized Shugden either. Great lamas. Great examples.

Dudjom Rinpoche criticizing Shugden hurts many people. I do not mean ill-will to Dudjom Rinpoche, but it hurts to know he would do this.

Sorry. 

[Zach]

Such a shame, Eveything is an appearance to mind and by this appearance one can see the state of the mind apprehending such.   

[jessicajameson]

How incredibly rude!

The chakra looks so childish, silly and ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense, just a senseless sketch that's meant to protect you from something that will and can help & protect you!

It's okay if you choose not to practice Dorje Shugden, but making up anti-Shugden chakra's? Why not petition or plea with the Dalai Lama to subdue him? Or Dudjom Rinpoche himself attempt to subdue Dorje Shugden?

I've actually seen the statue where DS was stepped down (with Dorje Drolod's right foot). It's so insensitive and uncalled for. WHAT GOOD CAN COME OUT OF PUTTING OTHERS DOWN? Let alone an enlightened being.

This is an irritating thread.

I can imagine how those who wear the anti-DS chakra will react if terrible things happen to them even after wearing the silly chakra. They'd think that Dorje Shugden got to them. IT'S CALLED YOUR BAD KARMA, BABE.

[Vajraprotector]

It's really not befitting for Dudjom Rinpoche to have created such a chakra and the altered form of Dorje Drolod. Moreover, Dudjom Rinpoche was once the head of Nyingma. 

Funny how they claim Shugden practitioners are sectarian, look at who is really taking sectarian-related actions to make a stand.

I have to say this made me lose respect for Dudjom Rinpoche as a lama. However, I am glad H.H. Penor Rinpoche, also from the Nyingma sect were sympathetic to Shugden monks. Read the thread here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=666.15

[Zach]

Its amazing really Gelugs are often accused of sectarianism yet I havent heard one in my own personal experience make disparaging remarks against Nyingmapas or anyone from any other tradition this is certainly a negative action from Dudjom Rinpoche and is unashamedly sectarian its people who perform silly actions like these that cause suffering. Much like Namkai Norbu whom often makes disparaging remarks against Dorje shugden and his followers and his students ive encountered have often been very rude and ignorant once they know you practise Dorje shugden actions like these foster suffering.

Mother always said if you dont have anything nice to say...Of course If one is continually engaging in false speech againsts other it is best to act in accordence with the Eight Verses of mind training and do ones best compassionatly to cause them to cease such an action as the future result of suffering will defeat their wishes for happiness. 

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Well, hello...   It seems that nowadays the former Head of the Nyingmapas can be criticized or downplayed here, as people reproach or belittle Dudjom.

Please inform us if, by these new policies, the Head of the Heads, the Dalai, can be criticized or downplayed also.

Or inform us why there isn't a similar policy of "Shugden, Dalai and Dudjom spreading the Dharma together"?

Shouldn't we apply the same standards to both Dudjom and Dalai. If Gurus are beyond reproach, then surely we have a double standard at hand.

[jessicajameson]

Well, hello...   It seems that nowadays the former Head of the Nyingmapas can be criticized or downplayed here, as people reproach or belittle Dudjom.

Please inform us if, by these new policies, the Head of the Heads, the Dalai, can be criticized or downplayed also.

Or inform us why there isn't a similar policy of "Shugden, Dalai and Dudjom spreading the Dharma together"?

Shouldn't we apply the same standards to both Dudjom and Dalai. If Gurus are beyond reproach, then surely we have a double standard at hand.

What is your silly little problem, Zhalmed Pawo.

You only ever post whenever the issue is anti-Dalai Lama related, and have a massive hang up about the forum and how they run things.

Suggestion? Get off it, and write somewhere else. Perhaps start a diary and write all of your ill-willed feelings in it. Let it out, it'd be good for you. Instead of spewing your hate over a website where people have clearly worked hard to create.

You can write whatever you want in your daily diary. You can even decorate the cover and write your own rules and regulations about what should be written in and what shouldn't.

Then debate with yourself if you write "the wrong things" on some days.

Why not write something constructive instead? You seem to be very well-read on a lot of Dharma teachings. Share it. Stop putting down the website. Since I've been participating on the forum, your words have been getting a lot more tired and boring.

Come on, share something interesting. Perhaps you may know something about Dudjom Rinpoche that's positive? Share that!

[DharmaSpace]

@jessica jameson
Yes what you said is so correct, and matches what was once said by my lama also.

If one does not have the karma to be harmed even if they are in the midst of dangerous situations nothing happens to them.

Meanwhile for some who is in a safe situation but has the karma to be harmed, he will get harmed one way or another!


I saw a small temple in yes of the imagery Dorje Drollo stepping on Dorje Shugden, if Dorje Shugden was truly an evil spirit it can never overcome the ultimate truth, that most enlightened lamas have realised. IMHO I think this view gives power for the lamas to overcome spirits and so forth. if Dorje Shugden was truly an evil spirit  it should not be too hard to ward it off or send it away through the enlightened lamas.

[DSFriend]

Well, hello...   It seems that nowadays the former Head of the Nyingmapas can be criticized or downplayed here, as people reproach or belittle Dudjom.

Please inform us if, by these new policies, the Head of the Heads, the Dalai, can be criticized or downplayed also.

Or inform us why there isn't a similar policy of "Shugden, Dalai and Dudjom spreading the Dharma together"?

Shouldn't we apply the same standards to both Dudjom and Dalai. If Gurus are beyond reproach, then surely we have a double standard at hand.

What is your silly little problem, Zhalmed Pawo.

You only ever post whenever the issue is anti-Dalai Lama related, and have a massive hang up about the forum and how they run things.

Suggestion? Get off it, and write somewhere else. Perhaps start a diary and write all of your ill-willed feelings in it. Let it out, it'd be good for you. Instead of spewing your hate over a website where people have clearly worked hard to create.

You can write whatever you want in your daily diary. You can even decorate the cover and write your own rules and regulations about what should be written in and what shouldn't.

Then debate with yourself if you write "the wrong things" on some days.

Why not write something constructive instead? You seem to be very well-read on a lot of Dharma teachings. Share it. Stop putting down the website. Since I've been participating on the forum, your words have been getting a lot more tired and boring.

Come on, share something interesting. Perhaps you may know something about Dudjom Rinpoche that's positive? Share that!

Please be reminded to refrain from making personal attacks/name calling towards each other.

[DSFriend]

Dear Forum Participants.

Be cautious to not put down other lamas. Sharing facts, findings and your views respectfully are welcomed, but bashing lamas is not allowed in this forum.

[Mana]

There is a difference between bringing up the issue to disparage and bringing up to inform and explain. What some members and suspended ex-members did there in this forum towards certain lamas were downright disparaging and was a personal attack, what we have here is to bring up the issue as information and for discussion, there is a fundamental difference.

[Big Uncle]

Well, hello...   It seems that nowadays the former Head of the Nyingmapas can be criticized or downplayed here, as people reproach or belittle Dudjom.

Please inform us if, by these new policies, the Head of the Heads, the Dalai, can be criticized or downplayed also.

Or inform us why there isn't a similar policy of "Shugden, Dalai and Dudjom spreading the Dharma together"?

Shouldn't we apply the same standards to both Dudjom and Dalai. If Gurus are beyond reproach, then surely we have a double standard at hand.

Dear Zhalmed Pawo,

I don't think that this thread was criticizing Dudjom Rinpoche or putting him down. Everyone was respectful towards this great Lama. They are not calling him names or being sarcastic towards him in any way. They are merely expressing their disappointment at his actions of creating the statues and chakras. So I don't see why you would say the things that you said here. In fact, you are accusing the forum moderators for having double standards when they have been very fair. Not a good move. In fact, they have been very kind and lenient with your snide remark. Please continue to post and be more constructive with your posts. We are after all in the same Dorje Shugden boat. Please see that.

[triesa]

Let us focus on the design of these anti shugden chakras. There are  2 scorpions, one above Dorje shugden and one below. Both are trying to swallow Dorje Shugden who is being chained up.

I have never opened any kind of chakras and see what is written on the paper inside but I do not think it is some drawings similar to this which is designed by Dudjom Rinpoche. I find the drawing quite cartoonistic and funny.  For Dudjom Rinpoche to think of this, perhaps he was trying seize another quick opportunity to raise some funds for his monastery by selling these chakras............ If Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by fire pujas and rites conducted by high lamas, I don't think a chakras with two scorpions can subdue Dorje Shugden  anyway.

[Mana]

The chakras cannot have any effect to protect anyone from Shugden as Shugden is not a demon. No chakras can 'protect' you from the blessings of a Buddha such as Shugden, only your closed minds.

Mana