Great Masters relying on DS = to ADMIN

[Lobsang Tharchin]

I noted that there is a list of great masters on www.dorjeshugden.com showing on who are the masters relying on DS.

I was wondering if the list itself is accurate or updated? There are at least 2 masters on that list who had stated (via their centres publicly) that they do not rely on DS.

If this is so, then it might be inappropriate to list them. Of course i'm sure the webmaster must have valid evidence for listing these masters as DS practitioners.

I understand that some Lamas may choose to keep secret their practice of DS for personal reasons while publicly denying it. If this is the case, then by revealing who these lamas are, it might hinder their dharma work.

Just my 2 cents worth.

FYI, i mean these comments in good faith. I have been relying on DS for years and have the good fortunate to sit at the feet of some of the masters you listed and listen to their teachings.

Let me sign off by thanking the webmaster for creating such a wonderful site!

Yours in the Dharma
Lobsang Tharchin

[beggar]

dear Lobsang Tharchin,
it would be quite hard to believe that such highly realized beings ACTUALLY give up their practice because of 'public demand'... but in any case, since we are just a little renegade site serving 'a few disgruntled individuals', anyone can just claim whatever we say is wrong and hilarious. On the other hand, for all those of us who have first heard the name Dorje Shugden in the middle of all this negative propaganda that's currently popular, we feel it's of enormous inspiration to see these holy beings and learn about our dharmapala in a true, profound and direct context in this way.

yours -
beggar

[jeff Ryan]

I will add my two cents as well. The masters lobsang mentions could contact the admin themselves to have their pictures removed. I'm sure admin would comply.

[DharmaDefender]

I noted that there is a list of great masters on www.dorjeshugden.com showing on who are the masters relying on DS.

I was wondering if the list itself is accurate or updated? There are at least 2 masters on that list who had stated (via their centres publicly) that they do not rely on DS.

If this is so, then it might be inappropriate to list them. Of course i'm sure the webmaster must have valid evidence for listing these masters as DS practitioners.

I understand that some Lamas may choose to keep secret their practice of DS for personal reasons while publicly denying it. If this is the case, then by revealing who these lamas are, it might hinder their dharma work.

Just my 2 cents worth.

FYI, i mean these comments in good faith. I have been relying on DS for years and have the good fortunate to sit at the feet of some of the masters you listed and listen to their teachings.

Let me sign off by thanking the webmaster for creating such a wonderful site!

Yours in the Dharma
Lobsang Tharchin

I do believe the list is accurate. Of course if the lamas are uncomfortable like Jeff says they are welcome to contact the admin to clear up the misunderstanding. Then again, within the Tibetan world, its probably an open secret amongst the lamas who is practising and who isnt, without DS.com interfering too much in the situation by revealing their names.

Like Lama Zopa for example - he has said FPMT have given up Dorje Shugden practice out of respect for the Dalai Lamas wishes. He never say FPMT gave up the practice because Dorje Shugden is bad or evil. But reliance on a deity I think can come in two forms - outer (such as pujas, mantras, sadhanas) and inner (heart reliance and faith in him). I think as a bodhisattva, masters like Lama Zopa are more than capable of heart reliance on the deity (if theres such a word / concept). I also believe that their work to preserve the Buddhadharma pleases Dorje Shugden...so in order to rely on him, its not entirely necessary to do his puja and practices when the REAL practice is to protect and spread the Dharma.

[Ensapa]

I noted that there is a list of great masters on www.dorjeshugden.com showing on who are the masters relying on DS.

I was wondering if the list itself is accurate or updated? There are at least 2 masters on that list who had stated (via their centres publicly) that they do not rely on DS.

If this is so, then it might be inappropriate to list them. Of course i'm sure the webmaster must have valid evidence for listing these masters as DS practitioners.

I understand that some Lamas may choose to keep secret their practice of DS for personal reasons while publicly denying it. If this is the case, then by revealing who these lamas are, it might hinder their dharma work.

Just my 2 cents worth.

FYI, i mean these comments in good faith. I have been relying on DS for years and have the good fortunate to sit at the feet of some of the masters you listed and listen to their teachings.

Let me sign off by thanking the webmaster for creating such a wonderful site!

Yours in the Dharma
Lobsang Tharchin

I do believe the list is accurate. Of course if the lamas are uncomfortable like Jeff says they are welcome to contact the admin to clear up the misunderstanding. Then again, within the Tibetan world, its probably an open secret amongst the lamas who is practising and who isnt, without DS.com interfering too much in the situation by revealing their names.

Like Lama Zopa for example - he has said FPMT have given up Dorje Shugden practice out of respect for the Dalai Lamas wishes. He never say FPMT gave up the practice because Dorje Shugden is bad or evil. But reliance on a deity I think can come in two forms - outer (such as pujas, mantras, sadhanas) and inner (heart reliance and faith in him). I think as a bodhisattva, masters like Lama Zopa are more than capable of heart reliance on the deity (if theres such a word / concept). I also believe that their work to preserve the Buddhadharma pleases Dorje Shugden...so in order to rely on him, its not entirely necessary to do his puja and practices when the REAL practice is to protect and spread the Dharma.

At this point of time, it is appropriate for Dorje Shugden Lamas to declare themselves as non Dorje Shugden Lamas simply because they have to respect the Dalai Lama. Dorje Shugden in trance has said many times to support the Dalai Lama but dont give up on His practice so it only makes sense that some high lamas in order to not disturb the minds of the Dalai Lama's students who come to their center to declare themselves publicly that they do not practice. But even on this, many people would have already guessed that they are practitioners because of their level of attainments and the growth of their Dharma work as well as by looking at their teachers. If they were listed on this website but said no publicly, it is most probably that they are practicing but in secret. After all, Dharma protector practice is best done in secret.

[Gabby Potter]

People claimed that if we were to do Dorje Shugden's practise, we will be reborn in the 3 lower realms. This is completely absurd, if this statement were true then what about the high lamas that have taken perfect rebirths in the human realm? They are all doing fine and are spreading the Buddha Dharma meticulously and tremendously.

[eyesoftara]

On the same account relying of the Great Nechung Protector who is not enlightened  and who originally was a great spirit from Persia/Iran is a form of reliance on spirit. Does that means that those why rely on Nechung will go to the lower realms?
Relying of a Protector is part of a formulations of the inner refuge of Guru, Yidam and Protector. The outer refuge of the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. The secret refuge is the 3 Kayas. So the direct relationship of the 3 refuge formulations is that the Protector is similar to the Sangha and the Nirmanakaya. We know that the Sangha is the monks and nuns who are likened to nurses and the Buddha is the doctor of the Dharma as medicine to cure of delusions. Hence, by the same logic, the Protector is the deity who help us in our Dharma practice but the true reliance is on the Dharma and the application of the Dharma.
So if we rely of the Dharma and has taken refuge and keep our refuge vows we will not go to the three lower realms, regardless of the nature of the Protector. Most importantly, the Protector is the one given by the Guru.