Too many practices

[DharmaDefender]

I have a question about our practices. Of course I believe in the power of the higher tantras and practices like Kalachakra, Guyasamaja, Heruka, etc but do we need so many practices? Because in the Dorje Shugden prayer it talks about taking Dorje Shugden as your "guru, yidam, and protector". My question is what is so wrong if I just focus on Dorje Shugden? Aren't his prayers powerful enough?

[WisdomBeing]

Hi Dharma Defender,

I guess I'd just ask your teacher what is best for you. Some teachers would give many practices and some would ask you to focus on one.

If your teacher says you should just focus on Dorje Shugden, then you should

[triesa]

Hi Dharma Defender,

I hope I remember correctly, I was once told that deity manifests themselves in a specific form for a specific reason. and purpose.

Say for example Manjushri, he manifested in this form holding the sword and a dharma scripture for specifically granting wisdom energy to cut our ignorance so we can gain clarity. So if you need wisdom badly at a particular time, your guru may ask you to do Manjushri prayer. And on another occasion, you may fall sick and need healing energy, then your guru will ask you to do Medicine buddha prayer specifically as medicine buddha manifested in this form for this purpose. It does not mean that manjushri is better than medicine buddha or vice versa, it is more to suit what the practitioner needs at a particular time to help her to clear those obstacles.

I also agree with what wisdom being mentioned here, that the best is to listen to your guru's advice.

[dondrup]

I have a question about our practices. Of course I believe in the power of the higher tantras and practices like Kalachakra, Guyasamaja, Heruka, etc but do we need so many practices? Because in the Dorje Shugden prayer it talks about taking Dorje Shugden as your "guru, yidam, and protector". My question is what is so wrong if I just focus on Dorje Shugden? Aren't his prayers powerful enough?

Lord Buddha has given 84,000 teaching - so many methods to use to transform our minds. Each method has its specific function to transform an aspect of our mind.  Yidam or Deity practices like Heruka, Manjushri, Amitayus etc are found in many different classes of tantras.  Similarly there are many Dharma Proctector practices like Dorje Shugden, Kalarupa, Mahakala etc available. 

Dorje Shudgen practice is specifically a Dharma Proctector practice which is different from the Yidam / Deity Practice.  Normally in a sadhana, practitioners start off with the Guru Yoga of the Yidam practice before proceeding to do the Dharma Proctector practice.  Hence, for example, a Gelugpa practitioner does their Guru Yoga of Tsongkhapa before proceeding to do the Dorje Shugden practice in that manner.

In degenerate times, because of the lack of merits, it is hard to gain attainments by just doing Yidam practices alone. Hence, practitioners rely a lot on Dharma Proctector practices to help them overcome their obstacles and to accumulate merits.  Practitioners will eventually do Yidam practices to accomplish Full Enlightenment. 

I agree with WisdomBeing, it is not for us to say which Yidam or Dharma Proctector practices we choose to do.   If we are fortunate to train under a qualified Lama, the Lama will be the best person to know what practices are suitable for us to do.  It all depends on our merits to receive the initiation or empowerment of a Yidam practice or transmission of a Dharma Protector practice.  It is wise to consult our Lama who will grant the practice(s) that we need and not we want.

Practitioners who are initiated into the Highest Yoga Tantras, for example Heruka practice can combine all their yidam or deity practices in a single Yidam Heruka during their sadhana practice.  Hence these HYT practitioners by doing an HYT Yidam practice can accomplish many deity practices.  They need not do all these Yidam practices separately. 



 

[daka]

What DharmaDefender asked is what exactly in my mind too. Wouldn't it be good if we can focus on just one practice?

Of course I understand that to seek for our teacher's advice is the best solution, but what if I don't have a teacher? Can I just focus on Dorje Shugden practice? Or can I do Manjushri practice with Dorje Shugden practice? Is it a repetitive thing to do since Dorje Shugden is also Manjushri?

[beggar]

Hey Dharma Defender, defending the many practices!

Salute!

Yes, it's extra special that Dorje Shugden is all Guru, Yidam and Protector by the nature of his emanation.
Actually, this can also be said of all enlightened Dharma protectors, whose minds are able to manifest in any form to benefit us - as teachers, as yidams and as Dharma protectors.

It is explained something like this:

There is no difference from the side of the Buddhas i.e. between Dorje Shugden as lama / yidam / Dharma protector. The difference is in the way the practices / sadhanas / meditations are presented and done by us, the practitioners. The presentation of the prayers / meditations will evoke different things and bring about different results in our mindstream and karmically too. e.g. yidam practices focus more on mind transformation, dharma protector practices focus on aspects such as confessions / making serkym offerings which help us to remove obstacles.

This is why our teacher will usually recommend that we have one yidam and one dharma protector, as the functions differ slightly and complement each other. Then of course, we have our Guru devotion practices, which is directly in relation to our teacher.

But, yes I also agree with you that we do not need to have so many practices, unless a teacher recommends us to do so (which means that the teacher will see that we need it and it will somehow be of benefit to us). It is not recommended that people go around "collecting" practices, like they go for several initiations and end up with everything. At our stage, if we pick and choose and collect all these practices, it can just make us more confused or become too overwhelming, and we risk quitting everything. The best way is to follow what our teachers have recommended - if our teacher gives us only one practice, we stick with that. If our Guru recommends several practices, trust there is a reason for that too and that he knows we are ready to be able to handle many practices simultaneously. Perhaps we need it for a future time or to develop a particular aspect within us... there are many reasons.

Rule of thumb - just follow what your teachers advise you, they know you best!

[KhedrubGyatso]

Actually there can never be too many Buddhist practices as all practices are one if we really understand their nature.The real problem  from our side is that we have too many distractions and confusion due to lack of faith in our Guru and Dharma. Until we have realizations or stable in our path, it makes sense to follow whatever our Guru prescribe for us.Usually it will be a protector or yidam which we have some connection with and which we can practice relatively easily. It is only our ego to think we should be receiving the highest teachings when we have so many obstacles and negativities to be removed.The Guru will always look after our best interest and spiritual level and through his clairvoyance is unmistaken as to what we need , not what we think we want.

[Barzin]

It is never which protector is better or which guru is better.  If you trust and have faith of your guru, your guru will know what to prescribe for you.  Some people take initiations from everywhere, in the end they broke their commitments and unable to fulfill.  They jumped from one guru to another, so much time wasted and so little learned.  The best is to listen to our guru, do what practice we are given, and if there is a need, guru will normally identify your yidam.  If not, Lama Tsongkhap followed by protector is sufficient enough...

Personally, I agree with what Khedrub Gyatso said.  Have faith in guru and dharma.  All are one.  So it is easier to train our mind to be focus.

[thor]

Very interesting thread. I particularly like what beggar has said, how true it is!

A couple of points to add to this discussion:

Qualified practitioners may also receive and practice more than one yidam/protector not for themselves, but to preserve the lineage and to transmit it to someone who needs it in the future. A simple example would be to look at the great qualified teachers and incarnate lamas today - the majority will be practitioners of several higher tantric deities, an even greater number of lower tantric deities as well as a small assembly of protectors.

Some HYT practices are prerequisites to receive other HYT practices. Yet other HYT practices are prerequisites to receive practices such as that of Dorje Shugden. In Dorje Shugden's case, it is perfectly safe to recite his prayers without empowerment. However, if one were to receive his empowerment, more commonly known as the life entrustment or 'sogtae', the recipient must have the initiations of either Chakrasamvara or Yamantaka. So to answer the original question posted by Dharma Defender, it is perfectly alright to focus on Dorje Shugden's practice as he is a fully enlightened being. But in order to do so, one must uphold at least one HYT practice.

Different monasteries have their own special protector, and within the monastery, there are smaller houses or kangsen which again have their own protector, plus the protector that one receives from one's own teachers. And of course, each buddha has their own specific purpose and has manifested for a specific reason. And hence each buddha would be most effective in their own special 'niche'. Otherwise propitiate Medicine Buddha to clear your obstacles and Kalarupa for healing... you would get some results of course, but would it be the most effective way?

Guru Yidam Protector - Lama Dorje Shugden (Tsongkapa as one with your Guru), Yidam Dorje Shugden (Yamantaka), Protector Dorje Shugden (himself!)... all are Manjushri... love it!

[kurava]

Rule of thumb - just follow what your teachers advise you, they know you best!

Thanks for all the advices.

What should I do if I don't have the good fortune of meeting a Guru? How would I know which practice is suitable for me?

[Big Uncle]

Hey Dharma Defender, defending the many practices!

Salute!

Yes, it's extra special that Dorje Shugden is all Guru, Yidam and Protector by the nature of his emanation.
Actually, this can also be said of all enlightened Dharma protectors, whose minds are able to manifest in any form to benefit us - as teachers, as yidams and as Dharma protectors.

It is explained something like this:

There is no difference from the side of the Buddhas i.e. between Dorje Shugden as lama / yidam / Dharma protector. The difference is in the way the practices / sadhanas / meditations are presented and done by us, the practitioners. The presentation of the prayers / meditations will evoke different things and bring about different results in our mindstream and karmically too. e.g. yidam practices focus more on mind transformation, dharma protector practices focus on aspects such as confessions / making serkym offerings which help us to remove obstacles.

This is why our teacher will usually recommend that we have one yidam and one dharma protector, as the functions differ slightly and complement each other. Then of course, we have our Guru devotion practices, which is directly in relation to our teacher.

But, yes I also agree with you that we do not need to have so many practices, unless a teacher recommends us to do so (which means that the teacher will see that we need it and it will somehow be of benefit to us). It is not recommended that people go around "collecting" practices, like they go for several initiations and end up with everything. At our stage, if we pick and choose and collect all these practices, it can just make us more confused or become too overwhelming, and we risk quitting everything. The best way is to follow what our teachers have recommended - if our teacher gives us only one practice, we stick with that. If our Guru recommends several practices, trust there is a reason for that too and that he knows we are ready to be able to handle many practices simultaneously. Perhaps we need it for a future time or to develop a particular aspect within us... there are many reasons.

Rule of thumb - just follow what your teachers advise you, they know you best!

Yup! In theory, the propitiation text that was composed was only to propitiate him as a Dharma Protector (the text is called a Kangsol), which is just to clear obstacles and increase favorable conditions. However, it would be so cool if an attained Lama of our time (like Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen himself, no less!) would compose a Sadhana (This is in Sanskrit or Dahkye in Tibetan), which would propitiate him as a Yidam and has all the stages and methods towards achieving enlightenment. That would be so cool, complete and easy for everyone! Then, the practice of Dorje Shugden would be compressed into one single practice.

[WisdomBeing]

Rule of thumb - just follow what your teachers advise you, they know you best!

Thanks for all the advices.

What should I do if I don't have the good fortune of meeting a Guru? How would I know which practice is suitable for me?

Hi Kurava,

I know - that's a bit of a bummer. I haven't met the right Guru for me yet though I have been to several teachers' dharma talks. I am particularly drawn to the Gelugpa tradition with Tsongkhapa and am doing lots of reading online. Of course I am incredibly attracted to Dorje Shugden and do his prayers daily - together with some Tsongkhapa prayers. I have read somewhere that if you do not have a Yidam, you can always use Tsongkhapa as your Yidam.

I believe so anyway.

[DharmaDefender]

Some HYT practices are prerequisites to receive other HYT practices. Yet other HYT practices are prerequisites to receive practices such as that of Dorje Shugden. In Dorje Shugden's case, it is perfectly safe to recite his prayers without empowerment. However, if one were to receive his empowerment, more commonly known as the life entrustment or 'sogtae', the recipient must have the initiations of either Chakrasamvara or Yamantaka. So to answer the original question posted by Dharma Defender, it is perfectly alright to focus on Dorje Shugden's practice as he is a fully enlightened being. But in order to do so, one must uphold at least one HYT practice.

Thanks everyone for your words, especially thor and beggar. I do get it that all practices are essentially the same and don't get me wrong, I trust me guru 100 percent but actually what thor said, that's what my question was really leaning towards. I want sogtae, and it's all I ever wanted but I wasn't aware that there were HYT requirements to receiving sogtae, so thanks for clearing that up!

Hi Kurava,

I know - that's a bit of a bummer. I haven't met the right Guru for me yet though I have been to several teachers' dharma talks. I am particularly drawn to the Gelugpa tradition with Tsongkhapa and am doing lots of reading online. Of course I am incredibly attracted to Dorje Shugden and do his prayers daily - together with some Tsongkhapa prayers. I have read somewhere that if you do not have a Yidam, you can always use Tsongkhapa as your Yidam.

I believe so anyway.

Yer Kurava, following on from WB, Tsongkapa cant be all that bad if he was the founder of the main lineage of Tibetan Buddhists. Just saying.

[icy]

Rule of thumb - just follow what your teachers advise you, they know you best!

Thanks for all the advices.

What should I do if I don't have the good fortune of meeting a Guru? How would I know which practice is suitable for me?

Hi Kurava!

When the student has ripen, when the time and place is ripe, the right guru will appear to give you teaching.  Remember verything is karmic.

[WisdomBeing]

Hi Kurava!

When the student has ripen, when the time and place is ripe, the right guru will appear to give you teaching.  Remember verything is karmic.

From what I have been told, i have to create the cause for the right guru to appear for me too, so I am studying at my own pace, and there's lots of information online. Of course this is one of my favourite websites!

I do feel a distinct draw to the east - so maybe I will go to India and check out Shar Gaden and Serpom Monasteries. I have considered going to the Trijang institute too. I'm saving like mad at the moment but i do believe my opportunity will come as long as i work for it.