Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche

[jagger]

There are even campaigns that go against Setrab, started by the ex moderator of esangha, Henry and Namdrol, where they tell everyone that Setrab is not enlightened and therefore not a suitable object to take refuge in or to practice, with the intention to tell people to avoid Gelugpa and to join their 'safe' tradition that is free from controversy. In those threads, fortunately someone replied and explained that if the monks of Ganden Shartse find it safe to practice Setrab, for them to impose their tradition on others is sectarianism and their little plan got exposed. And they stopped posting altogether.

i find this very disturbing. that lay people would want to discredit a dharma protector who is even not considered illegal etc! it is this type of sectarianism that gives tibetan buddhism a bad name. People who do not know the intricacies of Tibetan buddhism only hear that it is extremely political and schismatic and i have been told by several friends to steer clear of Tibetan Buddhism, yet somehow i seem to be attracted to it even though i loathe any kind of political shenanigans. The advice to steer clear come from people who don't even know the Dorje Shugden controversy but just that they have heard negative stories about Tibetan Buddhism. It is too complicated for me to explain to them also as they have no background at all in Buddhism and they are not really interested to know. They just say if it is complicated, leave them out of it. I guess that is why Buddha gave 84000 ways to appeal to the 84000 minds. Tibetan Buddhism may not be for everyone but there will be a way for everyone - people just have to find it.

Sectarianism cannot be done by the formless divine, why would the divine wanna get into the nitty gritty things of our mortal realm? "Sectarianism" itself was made up by man. Examples of such threat to humanity are racism, sexism etc. the dirty works of man has created unnecessary tension and disharmony.

This in itself is the produce of mankind, so fret not and point not on the divinity named Dorje Shugden!

[Ensapa]

i find this very disturbing. that lay people would want to discredit a dharma protector who is even not considered illegal etc! it is this type of sectarianism that gives tibetan buddhism a bad name. People who do not know the intricacies of Tibetan buddhism only hear that it is extremely political and schismatic and i have been told by several friends to steer clear of Tibetan Buddhism, yet somehow i seem to be attracted to it even though i loathe any kind of political shenanigans. The advice to steer clear come from people who don't even know the Dorje Shugden controversy but just that they have heard negative stories about Tibetan Buddhism. It is too complicated for me to explain to them also as they have no background at all in Buddhism and they are not really interested to know. They just say if it is complicated, leave them out of it. I guess that is why Buddha gave 84000 ways to appeal to the 84000 minds. Tibetan Buddhism may not be for everyone but there will be a way for everyone - people just have to find it.

Yes it is disturbing. He has posted a lot of lies and misunderstandings around in this particular forum.

Tohsan said: ?
Is it necessary to get blessing or "permission" from any Rinpoche before one practice the Dorje Setrap way? And the wrathful form is only external right, there is always symbolic meaning behind that wrathful look once we understand and appreciate the meaning, the practice will be easy, am I right up to this point?
according to the Gelug lineage holder for Dorje Setrap practice - Dagyab Rinpoche, the IXth Kyabgön Dagyab and the late Kensur Kyabje Lati Rinpoche, the abbot for Gaden Shartse Monastery, they said that an initiation for Dorje Setrap is a must in order to practise this protector practice.

if we all see that the wrathful form is only external right, as symbolic meaning behind that wrathful look, understand and appreciate the meaning, then you would have become a mahasiddha, and do not even need Heruka (eg. Chakrasamvara) practice at all!

initiation is a must. not only as a permission but also to receive the lineage blessings from the lineage gurus of the past and present.
henry, Feb 1, 2011

This was posted by henry.

Tohsan said: ?
can you explain the reason for the different classification?
this is an age old controversy, just like Dorje Shugden (Dolgyal) controversy, i can't just explain using a few words.

however, i have received the peaceful form of Dorje Setrap (white colored) from the Gelug lineage holder for Dorje Setrap practice - Dagyab Rinpoche, the IXth Kyabgön Dagyab. Rinpoche is pretty strict on giving this wrathful form (red colored), he would bestow this to those who have many years of experience for self-generation stage of deity yoga.
henry, Feb 1, 2011

This is rich. He has received the initiation from Dagyab Rinpoche himself, and now he has defected to Sakya?! Broken samaya! broken Samaya!

i rather stick to Mahakala practices and the like or those protectors who have been oath-bounded by Guru Rinpoche.

why Dagyab Rinpoche is so strict abt it? becoz without many years of self-generation stage stability, how are you going to command Setrap?

anyway, any deity or protector practices involved with self-generation stage, do require an initiation (Tibetan: wang).
henry, Feb 1, 2011

Oh lol. But protectors oath bounded by Guru Rinpoche are enlightened. And Setrap has already promised Guru Rinpoche too! So what is this guy talking about?

Tohsan said: ?
Why Ganden Monastery monks still praying to Lord Setrap for 600 years?
when we say "praying", it is not the usual concept of "praying" used by ordinary folks.

when we make offerings to worldly protectors, it is like making thanks giving to them, eg. a boss paying wages to a servant.

by the way, Dorje Setrap is another controversy and i will stop here.
henry, Mar 20, 2011

Wow, the last line was intentionally placed to mislead and confuse others. Do you see his malicious intentions now?

Feel free to have fun in this thread: http://amuletforums.com/threads/lord-dharmapala-setrap-chen-protector-of-dharma-of-gaden-shartse-monastery.13331/