Author Topic: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche  (Read 14053 times)

DharmaSpace

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Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« on: July 12, 2011, 03:18:44 PM »
This was the lama who brought the protector Setrap all the way from India to Tibet.

"Rinpoche is known to hold the most transmissions of the Gelugpa lineage, as well as a vast number of transmissions of the Sakya and Kagyu schools. Rinpoche himself received many teachings from different Tibetan Buddhist traditions, particularly from His Holiness the Dalai Lama and his two Tutors, as well as His Holiness Sakya Trizin and Kalu Rinpoche. He was also one of the closest students of the late Kyabje Trijiang Rinpoche, the junior tutor to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Rinpoche is a one of the rare living Masters today who holds almost all the transmissions and lineages of Tibetan Buddhism."


The young Dagyab Rinpoche

This amazing lama holds so traditions from so many lineages.

thaimonk

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 04:24:13 PM »
This was the lama who brought the protector Setrap all the way from India to Tibet.

"Rinpoche is known to hold the most transmissions of the Gelugpa lineage, as well as a vast number of transmissions of the Sakya and Kagyu schools. Rinpoche himself received many teachings from different Tibetan Buddhist traditions, particularly from His Holiness the Dalai Lama and his two Tutors, as well as His Holiness Sakya Trizin and Kalu Rinpoche. He was also one of the closest students of the late Kyabje Trijiang Rinpoche, the junior tutor to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Rinpoche is a one of the rare living Masters today who holds almost all the transmissions and lineages of Tibetan Buddhism."


The young Dagyab Rinpoche

This amazing lama holds so traditions from so many lineages.


Beautiful post. Beautiful picture of this incarnation. He also practices Shugden in conjunction with Setrap.


dsiluvu

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 06:28:35 PM »
Thank you Dharma Space for your sharing and picture! Dagyab Rinpoche is one of the many masters that gives proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and that Dorje Shugden and Setrap are closely practised as they are brothers after all.

And wasn't it Lord Setrap who enthroned Dorje Shugden as protector and Lord Setrap who distracted the ritual master of the fire puja that was meant to trap and kill Dorje Shugden. So in other words we can say that if you propitiate and practise Lord Setrap, you also indirectly propitiate Lord Dorje Shugden?


dsiluvu

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 06:30:25 PM »
Amazing Line of Lineage...

The Lineage of the Dagyab Kyabgoens

The lineage of the Kyabgoens, “Lords of Protection”, of Dagyab goes back to Dragpa Gyatso (1572 - 1638). He was born in the region of Dagyab into a family who were followers of the Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. Dragpa Gyatso went to study at Ganden Monastery near Lhasa in Central Tibet and became a well-known Gelugpa teacher and meditation master. After completion of his studies the 4th Dalai Lama, Yoenten Gyatso (1589-1616), asked him to return to Dagyab to help people there in their spiritual pursuits. Back in Dagyab he gave many teachings and spent several years meditating in a cave that had a protruding rock outcrop (Tib.dag, Engl. rock; Tib. yab, Engl. protruding outcrop). That is how he later became known by that name. His activities also took him to neighboring regions formerly called Chayuel, Kyongyuel, and Getshang. He accumulated a large following and his disciples became so devoted to him that, out of gratitude, they offered him all their land. Eventually, this led to the unification of these regions into one county which constitutes present day Dagyab County. He spent the rest of his life in Dagyab and because his vast activities brought much benefit and happiness to the area, he was later known as the Kyabgoen of Dagyab, the Protector Lord of Dagyab.

 Since the 4th Kyabgoen of Dagyab all following reincarnations have additionally held the title Hothogthu Nomonhan (Engl. Noble; Tib. 'phags-pa, Skr. Arya). Hothogthus are among a small group of the highest ranking reincarnated lamas who were often reincarnations of Regents (Tib. Gyaltul) of Tibet. The present 9th Dagyab Kyabgoen is the only Hothogthu living in the west.
 
In a prayer dedicated to the lineage of the Dagyab Kyabgoens, several Indian and Tibetan masters are mentioned as previous reincarnations of the Dagyab Kyabgoens. The most well known among them is the great translator Loden Sherab (1059-1109) from Central Tibet. Therefore, the Dagyab Kyabgoens were also known as Lama Loden Sherab. This name remains until the present. Thus the current 9th Kyabgoen of Dagyab holds the name H.E. Loden Sherab Dagyab Kyabgoen Rinpoche.

SOURCE: http://www.dagyab-rinpoche.com/biography/the-lineage-of-the-dagyab-kyabgoens/

WisdomBeing

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 12:24:03 PM »
Thanks for this post! I love the black and white picture of this Master! I found this picture of Dagyap Rinpoche and the Dalai Lama together, taken as recently as 2009. If HH Dalai Lama is so against Shugden, he is remarkably friendly with Dagyap Rinpoche!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DharmaSpace

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 03:08:59 PM »
Another picture of Dagyab Rinpoche


His two main teachers were the erudite Kyabjye Ling Rinpoche and Kyabjye Trijang Rinpoche.

Thank you thaimonk for lettin me know that Dagyab Rinpoche practices Setrap and Dorje  Shugden in tandem.  It was Setrap who pulled Dorje Shugden out form being burnt by fire puja not once by twice.
Why would an enlightened dharma protector help Dorje Shugden ? Think ?

For people not familiar with Dorje Shugden lore
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=697.0

beggar

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 05:07:36 PM »
Great posting. Thank you for sharing.

Yes, Setrap and Dorje Shugden reside within one mandala so when we do prayers and evoke upon on, the other comes to assist our wishes also. it was very common for many gelugpa practitioners to strongly rely upon both openly before the ban - Gaden Shartse is a strong example. They still continue their Setrap practice there quite strongly I believe and have a very sacred Setrap chapel.

I have also heard that there used to be a Shugden chapel in Gaden and that apparently it is still there and hasn't been removed. Why destroy all the DS lamas and their images but leave such a central and important place of his worship, right on monastery grounds - just another contradiction in this big puzzle!

Big Uncle

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 05:46:09 PM »
I heard that Dagyab Rinpoche was detained and deported from China when he attempted to enter a few years ago. I also heard that he is somehow an emanation of the Drakpa line of incarnation as well. Hence, the closeness with Setrap extends all the way to him saving Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's spirit much later on. How accurate this is, I don't know and I don't have any verifiable source at the moment. I found the following biography of Dagyab Rinpoche's most famous previous incarnation in Treasury of Lives website.

--------

Ngok Loden Sherab was born on the shores of Lake Yardrok (yar 'brog) in Lhoka (lho ka). His father was Ngok Chokyab (rNgok chos skyabs) and his mother was Pelmo (dpal mo). For the first seventeen years of his life Ngok Lo was tutored by his uncle Ngok Legpai Sherab (rNgok legs pa'i shes rab) who had been one of the three main disciples of Atisha. In 1073 his uncle founded the important educational monastery known as Sangpu Neutog (gsang phu ne'u thog). Three years later his uncle ordained him and gave him his name Loden Sherab (blo ldan shes rab). In the same year he was ordained, he was able to attend the most important meeting of Buddhist minds of his era, the Fire Dragon Dharma Wheel (me 'brug chos 'khor) that convened in 1076 under the sponsorship of King Tsede (rtse lde), then ruling Western Tibet. The conference was blessed by the presence of the most important teachers, not only Tibetan teachers but also Indian and Kashmiri panditas. One of its main aims was to encourage new and more accurate translation work. As one way of accomplishing this objective they decided to send groups of young men to study language in India. So it was probably with some amount of support from the royal treasury that he departed in that same year for what would prove to be an extended stay in India.

When Loden Sherab first set out for Kashmir five other translators accompanied him. All five would become quite famous in their profession, although Ra Lotsawa (rwa lo tsA ba) was probably the most famous of them all. While in Kashmir he spent much of his time in a city called Anupama, a name that means ‘Incomparable.' It just might be the city known today as Srinagar, often praised for its incomparable beauty. He worked closely with several panditas. One of them, Bhavyaraja (skal ldan rgyal po), had attended the Dharma Wheel of 1076, but probably was not personally a Buddhist. This did not really matter very much, because most of the work they did together in Kashmir was on logic treatises. Logic then, as now, was a very ecumenical interest, and particularly in India logicians read and criticized the logic of others regardless of their religions. He also worked with Parahitabhadra (gzhan la phan pa bzang po) and Sajjana (sad dza na), but there were still others, these being only the best known among them.

Although it was quite a long journey from Kashmir to the central part of the Gangetic plains, Ngok Lo of course fulfilled his dream of paying honor to the shrine at the site of the Buddha's Enlightenment at Bodhgaya. When he returned to Tibet, he invited some of the panditas to come and work with him on more translations there. They say that he translated over the course of his lifetime more than one hundred and thirty-seven thousand verses. But equally if not more important, he trained countless students in philosophy, logic, and yoga practice. He had so many students — as many as twenty thousand of them gathered to hear him — he had to make use of nearly two thousand assistant teachers. In his last words to his most famous disciples Zhang Tshepongwa (zhang tshe spong ba) and Drolungpa (gro lung pa), he reminded them of the impermanence of the body, which might seem sturdy as a mountain, but is in fact as easily burst as a bubble, and urged them to study the Three Baskets of Buddha's words, the Tripitaka.

When Loden Sherab died, at a place called Mari (ma ri) in the neighborhood of Samye Temple, there was an earthquake, the sky filled with rainbows, lights and musical sounds. His body was cremated in the lower part of the valley that had Sangpu (gsang phu) Monastery in its higher half. It was there, too, that his reliquary chorten was built.

vajrastorm

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 07:55:58 AM »
Thank you all for sharing so much information on the great Master Dagyab Kyabgoan Loden Sherab Rinpoche. He is without doubt a most highly attained Master holding the most number of transmissions of many lineages’ teachings and practices.

Furthermore, he is a strong practitioner of Dorje Shugden. At the same time, he practices supramundane Dharmapala Setrap. (In fact, it was his first incarnation, Loden Sherab, who first brought Setrap from India to Tibet)!   

As Dsiluvu reminds us, it was Lord Setrap who saved Dorje Shugden from the trap set to destroy the latter Protector in a fire puja. Thus, this (and other instances of the Two Protectors working together or helping each other) shows that the two enlightened Dharma Protectors are inextricably linked together.

Thus, Dharmapala Setrap and Dharmapala Dorje Shugden are, in effect, like ‘twins’. So as we propitiate one we propitiate the other in tandem. The fact that this great compassionate Master Dagyab Rinpoche practices both Dharmapalas, shows us that these two Protectors are both highly enlightened and compassionate Dharma Protectors, who work for the benefit of all beings.


WisdomBeing

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 05:28:13 PM »
I heard that Dagyab Rinpoche was detained and deported from China when he attempted to enter a few years ago. I also heard that he is somehow an emanation of the Drakpa line of incarnation as well. Hence, the closeness with Setrap extends all the way to him saving Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's spirit much later on. How accurate this is, I don't know and I don't have any verifiable source at the moment. I found the following biography of Dagyab Rinpoche's most famous previous incarnation in Treasury of Lives website.

--------

Ngok Loden Sherab was born on the shores of Lake Yardrok (yar 'brog) in Lhoka (lho ka). His father was Ngok Chokyab (rNgok chos skyabs) and his mother was Pelmo (dpal mo). For the first seventeen years of his life Ngok Lo was tutored by his uncle Ngok Legpai Sherab (rNgok legs pa'i shes rab) who had been one of the three main disciples of Atisha. In 1073 his uncle founded the important educational monastery known as Sangpu Neutog (gsang phu ne'u thog). Three years later his uncle ordained him and gave him his name Loden Sherab (blo ldan shes rab). In the same year he was ordained, he was able to attend the most important meeting of Buddhist minds of his era, the Fire Dragon Dharma Wheel (me 'brug chos 'khor) that convened in 1076 under the sponsorship of King Tsede (rtse lde), then ruling Western Tibet. The conference was blessed by the presence of the most important teachers, not only Tibetan teachers but also Indian and Kashmiri panditas. One of its main aims was to encourage new and more accurate translation work. As one way of accomplishing this objective they decided to send groups of young men to study language in India. So it was probably with some amount of support from the royal treasury that he departed in that same year for what would prove to be an extended stay in India.

When Loden Sherab first set out for Kashmir five other translators accompanied him. All five would become quite famous in their profession, although Ra Lotsawa (rwa lo tsA ba) was probably the most famous of them all. While in Kashmir he spent much of his time in a city called Anupama, a name that means ‘Incomparable.' It just might be the city known today as Srinagar, often praised for its incomparable beauty. He worked closely with several panditas. One of them, Bhavyaraja (skal ldan rgyal po), had attended the Dharma Wheel of 1076, but probably was not personally a Buddhist. This did not really matter very much, because most of the work they did together in Kashmir was on logic treatises. Logic then, as now, was a very ecumenical interest, and particularly in India logicians read and criticized the logic of others regardless of their religions. He also worked with Parahitabhadra (gzhan la phan pa bzang po) and Sajjana (sad dza na), but there were still others, these being only the best known among them.

Although it was quite a long journey from Kashmir to the central part of the Gangetic plains, Ngok Lo of course fulfilled his dream of paying honor to the shrine at the site of the Buddha's Enlightenment at Bodhgaya. When he returned to Tibet, he invited some of the panditas to come and work with him on more translations there. They say that he translated over the course of his lifetime more than one hundred and thirty-seven thousand verses. But equally if not more important, he trained countless students in philosophy, logic, and yoga practice. He had so many students — as many as twenty thousand of them gathered to hear him — he had to make use of nearly two thousand assistant teachers. In his last words to his most famous disciples Zhang Tshepongwa (zhang tshe spong ba) and Drolungpa (gro lung pa), he reminded them of the impermanence of the body, which might seem sturdy as a mountain, but is in fact as easily burst as a bubble, and urged them to study the Three Baskets of Buddha's words, the Tripitaka.

When Loden Sherab died, at a place called Mari (ma ri) in the neighborhood of Samye Temple, there was an earthquake, the sky filled with rainbows, lights and musical sounds. His body was cremated in the lower part of the valley that had Sangpu (gsang phu) Monastery in its higher half. It was there, too, that his reliquary chorten was built.

Thank you for sharing this bio on Loden Sherab, Big Uncle!

I found what you mentioned re Dagyab Rinpoche being deported from China interesting. I would have thought that the Chinese would have welcomed a Rinpoche linked to Dorje Shugden, hence inferentially "against" the Dalai Lama. I would be curious for more details about this - or even if this can be substantiated or not.

Cheers!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DharmaSpace

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2013, 05:36:37 PM »
This is a short bio about two translators one of which is His Eminence Loden Sherab -

Quote
Translators from the Second Propogation: Lotsawa Loden Sherab and Lotsawa Zhonnu Pel

During the Second Propagation of Buddhism in Tibet around the 11th and 12th centuries, new scriptures and new ritual technologies were brought over the high Himalaya by scores of Tibetans, Indian, and Nepali masters to a Tibetan Plateau politically divided into small kingdoms and powerful clans which provided patronage for religious work. The influx of the new religious material created a vibrant era of competition and exchange, and the foundations for the New Translation traditions such as the Kagyu, Geluk, Sakya, and their many subdivisions. The accounts of heroic translators such as Marpa Lotsawa (c.1012-1097) and Orgyenpa (c.1229-1309), who braved astounding dangers to travel across the mountains into wildly unfamiliar lands, are fairly well known, and their stories are still celebrated as examples of courageous compassion. The Treasury of Lives collects biographies of many other translators whose stories are no less examples of courageous quests in the name of the dharma. Two such translators are Ngok Lotsawa Loden Sherab and Ga Lotsawa Zhonnu Pel.

Ngok Loden Sherab was born in Lokha in 1059 into the Ngok clan. His uncle and main teacher, Ngok Lotsawa Lekpai Sherab (1059–1109), who had been a disciple of Atisha (c.982–1054), founded Sangpu Neutok Monastery, an early Kadam institution. In 1076, the year he was ordained, he attended the important Fire Dragon Religious Conference, which was attended by many of the Tibetan and Indian translators active at the time. The purpose of the meeting, sponsored by King Tsede of the Guge kingdom, was to encourage new and more accurate translation. Loden Sherab was chosen to join a group of young men sent to India to study language. The controversial translator Ra Lotsawa Dorje Drakpa (c.1016–c.1128) was among his five comrades on the journey; Ra Lotsawa would later murder another of their companions.

In Kashmir Ngok Loden Sherab worked closely with a scholar named Bhavyaraja who had attended the 1076 conference but was probably not a Buddhist. This did not matter too much, as most of the work they did together in Kashmir was on logic treatises. Back in Tibet he translated more than one hundred and thirty-seven thousand verses, and trained countless students in philosophy, logic, and yoga practice. In his last words he reminded them of the impermanence of the body, which might seem sturdy as a mountain but is in fact as easily burst as a bubble, and urged them to study the Three Baskets of Buddha's words, the Tripitaka.

A near contemporary of Ngok Loden Sherab was Ga Lotsawa Zhonnu Pel (not to be confused with Go Lotsawa Zhonnu Pel, the author of the Blue Annals, who lived three centuries later). Zhonnu Pel was born and ordained in Amdo but studied Sanskrit and other Buddhist topics in central Tibet at several Kadam monasteries. He went to India to further his studies, and there met the Tangut lama Tsami Lotsawa Sanggye Drak, the abbot of the monastery at Bodh Gaya, and the Indian pandit Abhayakara (c.1104–c.1125), whom Tibetan historians incorrectly remember as a Tibetan. Zhonnu Pel is said to have initially refused to study with Tsami Lotsawa, reasoning that as he had come all the way to India he ought to study with an Indian.

Zhonnu Pel is credited with practicing in the famous Cool Grove cemetery outside of Bodhgaya, where he subjugated a form of Mahakala named the "Raven-Faced Dharma Protector," binding him into service as a Buddhist protector. Back in Tibet he became famous for propagating the worship of this deity. He spent about six years practicing at Namtso Lake, where a young Lama Zhang Yudrakpa (1123–1193) encountered him and received his teachings. "If you become my follower, you will starve to death,” Ga Lotsawa told the young lama. “Meditate on the union of emptiness and compassion." He then gave Lama Zhang some soup to drink that contained cumin and brown sugar, and said, "My instructions have no mouth, eyes, or ears. There is no harm now."

Lama Zhang interpreted the offering of soup and cryptic words to mean 1) he must be willing to die for the dharma; 2) Ga Lotsawa was giving him the core of his teachings; 3) Ga Lotsawa was transmitting to him his experiences; 4) it is not appropriate to teach others if one is not liberated; and 5) if one is realized, there is no harm in teaching others.

Ga Lotsawa gave Lama Zhang many instructions and initiations that are at the core of the Kagyu tradition, including the Six Yogas of Naropa, Cakrasamvara, Kalacakra, and the Mahakala rituals. He also told Zhang to stop being a vegetarian and to eat bones and meat, at least until his headaches went away. In addition to teaching Lama Zhang, Ga Lotsawa also taught the Six Yogas of Naropa to Pakmodrupa Dorje Gyelpo (1110–1170) and to the First Karmapa, Dusum Khyenpa (1110–1193).

Ga Lotsawa is credited with translating eight works in the Tengyur, the collected translations of the Indian commentaries to Buddhist scriptures.

 

Alexander Gardner has a PhD from the University of Michigan in Buddhist Studies and serves as the Associate Director of the Rubin Foundation.

 


Extracted from  http://www.tricycle.com/blog/treasury-lives-lotsawa-loden-sherab-and-lotsawa-zhonnu-pel

Ensapa

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 03:47:02 AM »
On the part where Setrab saved Dorje Shugden: Dorje Shugden was already enlightened from the start so there is no way where he needed Setrab to save him. It was just an indicator that Dorje Shugden is not a normal being and that he has the approval and support of Setrab and thus cannot and will not be destroyed as he does not have the karma to be killed or destroyed since he is enlightened. Setrab has been Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen's primary protector from the start and so it is natural for Setrab to 'protect' Dorje Shugden to also at the same time, show the effectiveness of having good samaya with the protector and with the Gurus.

whitelion

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2013, 07:31:08 PM »
Thanks for sharing the story of Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche, I'm always heard the name of Loden Sherab Rinpoche but I never know I'm able to see his current reincarnation. Loden Shereb Rinpoche have contribute a lot towards the growth of Gelug school, if without Loden Sherab Rinpoche,  I don't think Setrap will be one of the main protector in Gelug school, which also highly propitiate within the 3 main monastery of Gelug, just like Palden Lhamo, Mahakala and other great protectors.

Before the ban on Dorje Shugden, all Gaden Shartse monks need to perform monthly kangsol and offering towards the 2 great protectors, Setrap and Dorje Shugden. Even in Gaden Laci, there was a four ft Dorje Shugden and a four ft Setrap statue. This two holy protectors statues are personally consecrated by the previous HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Zong Rinpoche. There was thousand of DS mantra, prayers, images, inserted into the Setrap statue and thousand of Setrap mantra, prayers, images inserted into the DS statue. It's because both protectors are like brother and always bring Dharma to the most difficult people.

DS mandala appear in 3 tier: on the top, is where Buddha Amitabha reside, Setrap on the middle and Dorje Shugden at the bottom, it is another clear sign that Dorje Shugden is fully enlighten in his body, speech, mind, activities and actions.

It's not surprise that current Loden Sherab Rinpoche studied under the previous HH Trijang Rinpoche, because Loden Sherab Rinpoche represent Setrap and HH Trijang Rinpoche represent Dorje Shugden, and this have been practice for centuries. It's impossible that Setrap, as one of the most wrathful emanation of Buddha Amitabha will allow any other being who reside in the same mandala bring harm to any sentient beings, it just doesn't make sense.

Also don't tell me the thousand of scholars, Lamas, Geshe never realize Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit before the ban ? Why they didn't say anything before the ban ? But why when the ban started by CTA, the monastery started to smashed DS statues, burned DS thangka, put down DS practitioners? Is it because DS is really a harmful spirit or it just a way to look good in front of HHDL and CTA ?

Another word Setrap and Buddha Amitabha are also wrong, if in that case, why don't they burn down the Setrap and Amitabha images, thangka and statue? Gelug should also remove any practices that involce Setrap and Amitabha because they are in the same mandala as Dorje Shugden and they are wrong too. This is just another clear sign that CTA is playing a lot of lies to cover their untruthful actions, that brought harm to thousands.

Attached is a DS mandala thangka, as you can see Setrap is reside in the second level of the mandala and Amitabha is just right on the top.

Second picture is a Thangka that show Setrap and Dorje Shugden is always together to protect the Gelug lineage.

Third, a Setrap statue in Gaden Shartse

Ensapa

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 07:11:32 AM »
There are even campaigns that go against Setrab, started by the ex moderator of esangha, Henry and Namdrol, where they tell everyone that Setrab is not enlightened and therefore not a suitable object to take refuge in or to practice, with the intention to tell people to avoid Gelugpa and to join their 'safe' tradition that is free from controversy. In those threads, fortunately someone replied and explained that if the monks of Ganden Shartse find it safe to practice Setrab, for them to impose their tradition on others is sectarianism and their little plan got exposed. And they stopped posting altogether.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Dagyab Kyabgoen Loden Sherab Rinpoche
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2013, 09:25:54 AM »
There are even campaigns that go against Setrab, started by the ex moderator of esangha, Henry and Namdrol, where they tell everyone that Setrab is not enlightened and therefore not a suitable object to take refuge in or to practice, with the intention to tell people to avoid Gelugpa and to join their 'safe' tradition that is free from controversy. In those threads, fortunately someone replied and explained that if the monks of Ganden Shartse find it safe to practice Setrab, for them to impose their tradition on others is sectarianism and their little plan got exposed. And they stopped posting altogether.

i find this very disturbing. that lay people would want to discredit a dharma protector who is even not considered illegal etc! it is this type of sectarianism that gives tibetan buddhism a bad name. People who do not know the intricacies of Tibetan buddhism only hear that it is extremely political and schismatic and i have been told by several friends to steer clear of Tibetan Buddhism, yet somehow i seem to be attracted to it even though i loathe any kind of political shenanigans. The advice to steer clear come from people who don't even know the Dorje Shugden controversy but just that they have heard negative stories about Tibetan Buddhism. It is too complicated for me to explain to them also as they have no background at all in Buddhism and they are not really interested to know. They just say if it is complicated, leave them out of it. I guess that is why Buddha gave 84000 ways to appeal to the 84000 minds. Tibetan Buddhism may not be for everyone but there will be a way for everyone - people just have to find it.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being