Author Topic: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism  (Read 14809 times)

WoselTenzin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« on: July 14, 2011, 01:17:37 AM »
An authentic lineage in Buddhism is the uninterrupted transmission of the Buddha's Dharma from teacher to disciple that originated from Buddha Sakyamuni himself.  All Dharma teachings that we receive, study and practice must have originated from Buddha Sakyamuni and passed down through the lineage holders to our guru and finally from our guru to us.

The importance of authentic lineage in any Dharma teachings we receive cannot be stressed more as only teachings from authentic lineages carry the enlightened blessings and when put into practice, one can gain attainments.

There is a spiritual supermarket out there where there is an unlimited array of teachings real and false given by various teachers.  From the past we we have seen instances of many people falling prey to false teachers who led them to committing non-virtuous actions, crime or even self destruction.

How do we ensure that we are not practising some arbitrary teachings made up by someone who is out to deceive us for their own personal gain? 

Roberto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2011, 01:51:41 AM »
As you have already said, you should be able to trace back the lineage tree all the way back to the disciple of the first Buddha no?

I guess the confusion would come when there is no tree to trace back. But that is another topic of discussion.

From what I have read even some teachings were passed on via direct communication with a diety.

Tsongkhapa for example communicated with Manjushri. Even Pabongka supposedly brought the practice of Dorje Shugden back after deep meditation.

Moments like these I feel are the most difficult to grasp but I guess there are ways to check. Or are there?

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2011, 07:10:06 PM »
Authentic lineages is of paramount importance for Tantric traditions to have power. Otherwise, the sadhanas wouldn't bear fruit and the no attainments can arise. However, there are other factors involved as well such as having clean samaya and the person receiving these teachings must be a worthy receptacle. Hence, Lamas always put their students to the test, especially those that they have earmarked to carry on a certain lineage and they can only do so if they have 'passed the test'. Hence, you get stories of trials and tribulations of Milarepa and Marpa, Naropa and Tilopa.


Positive Change

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 08:34:51 AM »
Authentic lineages is of paramount importance for Tantric traditions to have power. Otherwise, the sadhanas wouldn't bear fruit and the no attainments can arise. However, there are other factors involved as well such as having clean samaya and the person receiving these teachings must be a worthy receptacle. Hence, Lamas always put their students to the test, especially those that they have earmarked to carry on a certain lineage and they can only do so if they have 'passed the test'. Hence, you get stories of trials and tribulations of Milarepa and Marpa, Naropa and Tilopa.


What is shared above rings very true, I for one feel what is paramount for us is to ensure we ourselves are ready... because no matter how pure or untainted the lineage is, if we ourselves do not believe or are ready, even a highly attained Lama from an unbroken lineage can help us as we have not created the merits nor are willing to accept the "help". I am sure the Lama will and can find ways to change the mindset but ultimately, it is OUR mindset. It is our choice! Hence to be in the presence of a great teacher and have the opportunity to learn and get some attainments or at least the start to some attainments is most precious and must be treated with utmost respect and we have to push ourselves further and not throw the chance away... we never know how many more lifetimes before we are in such opportune conditions, if ever!

KhedrubGyatso

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
    • Email
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 11:31:13 AM »
The claim of unbroken lineage can be tricky and subject to debate.Apparently , Mahayana teachings were supposed to be lost shortly after Sakyamuni passed away. The corpus of Perfection of Wisdom Teachings were  said to be kept by the King of Nagas at the bottom of a lake until the time was right for him to pass it to Nagarjuna, who became the founder of the Mahayana tradition. Naturally, the Hinayanists are not very convinced by such an uncommon explanation and claimed that the Mahayana teachings are merely additions to their original Pali Canon and implied they are not 'authentic' words of the Buddha.

This is very interesting and i wonder if there are more to the little i know here.

DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2011, 06:29:22 AM »

There is a spiritual supermarket out there where there is an unlimited array of teachings real and false given by various teachers.  From the past we we have seen instances of many people falling prey to false teachers who led them to committing non-virtuous actions, crime or even self destruction.

How do we ensure that we are not practising some arbitrary teachings made up by someone who is out to deceive us for their own personal gain? 

We rely heavily on our limited cognitive abilities/logic and our five senses to understand our world. It is quite hard to recognize if motivations are good or bad... but as the saying goes "A Tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds !"

For us, we are extremely fortunate to have met the perfect teachings of the perfect Buddha, the Lamrim, our Protector, the buddha of wisdom. Most of us in this forum came to learn about the Lamrim and Dorje Shugden due to the kindness of our Guru. Some may have stumbled on this website due to karmic connections.

For those who are new to buddhism, and are perhaps looking for a Guru, I would advice you to check the lineage, observe what the Guru is trying to achieve or have achieved, listen to the teachings. visit the chapel/monastery.

shugdentruth

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 49
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2011, 02:10:06 PM »
What would happen if we do not receive teachings from an authentic lineage?? will we only not be able to find happiness or will we encounter something supernaturally wrong?? See spirits or anything along that nature??

dondrup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2011, 05:07:46 PM »
...  How do we ensure that we are not practising some arbitrary teachings made up by someone who is out to deceive us for their own personal gain? 


Here's a teaching on Four Reliances that answers the question above.

Source: http://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/the-four-reliances/

4 Reliances
Catu-prati?ara?a-s?tra
 
 catv?ri prati?ara??ni|

tadyath?-arthaprati?ara?at? na vyañjanaprati?ara?at?| jñ?naprati?ara?at? na vijñ?naprati?ara?at?| n?t?rthaprati?ara?at? na ney?rthaprati?ara?at?| dharmaprati?ara?at? na pudgalaprati?ara?at? ceti||
 
The four reliances (Tib. tönpa shyi)
 
Rely on the message, not on the messenger;
 
Rely on the meaning, not on the words;
 
Rely on the intention, not on speculation;
 
Rely on wisdom mind, not on self-grasping mind.
 
Mipham Rinpoche says in The Sword of Wisdom:
 
If we do not have such understanding, then, like a blind man leaning on his staff, we can rely on fame, mere words, or what is easy to understand, and go against the logic of the Four Reliances.
 
Therefore do not rely on individuals, but rely upon the Dharma. Freedom comes from the genuine path that is taught, not the one who teaches it.
 
When the teachings are well presented, it does not matter what the speaker is like. Even the bliss-gone Buddhas Themselves appear as butchers and such to train disciples.
 
If he contradicts the meaning of the Great Path, then however eloquent a speaker may seem, he will bring us no benefit, like a demon appearing in a Buddha’s form.
 
Whenever we study or contemplate the Dharma, rely not on the words, but on the meaning. If the meaning is understood, then regardless of the speaker’s style, there will be no conflict.
 
When we have understood what it was the speaker intended to communicate, if we then continue to think about each word and expression, it is as if we’ve found our elephant but now go in search of its footprints.
 
If we misinterpret what is said and then think of more words, we’ll never stop till we run out of thoughts, but all the while we’re only straying further and further from the meaning. Like children playing, we’ll only end up exhausted.
 
Even for a single word like “and” or “but”, when taken out of context, there’s no end to what it might mean. Yet if we understand what is meant, then with that the need for the word is finished.
 
When the finger points to the moon, the childish will look at the finger itself. And fools attached to mere language, may think they’ve understood, but they will find it difficult.
 
When it comes to the meaning, we should know what is provisional and what is definitive, and rely not on any provisional meaning, but only on the meaning that is true definitively.
 
The Omniscient One Himself in all His wisdom, taught according to students’ capacities and intentions, presenting vehicles of various levels, just like the rungs of a ladder.
 
Wisely, He spoke with certain intentions in mind, as with the eight kinds of implied and indirect teachings. If these were to be taken literally they might be invalidated, but they were taught for specific reasons.
 
When taking the definitive meaning into experience, do not rely upon the ordinary dualistic mind that chases after words and concepts, but rely upon non-dual wisdom itself.
 
That which operates with conceptual ideas is the ordinary mind, whose nature involves perceiver and perceived. All that is conceived in this way is false and will never touch upon the actual nature of reality.
 
Any idea of real or unreal, both or neither —any such concept, however it’s conceived— is still only a concept, and whatever ideas we hold in mind, they are still within the domain of illusion.
 
This has been stated in the sutras. It is not by any assertion or denial that we will put an end to concepts. But once we see without rejecting or affirming, there is freedom.
 
Although it is without any subject-object grasping, there is naturally occurring wisdom that illuminates itself, and all ideas of existence, non-existence, both and neither, have ceased completely. This is supreme primordial wisdom.
 
The definitive meaning can either be understood conceptually, by means of ideas, or it can be experienced directly as the object of non-conceptual awareness wisdom. As long as we are caught up in the conceptual extremes of negation and affirmation, existence and non-existence, and so on, we have not gone beyond the realm of the ordinary mind.
 
When we arrive at the sublime experience of wisdom, and all dualistic ideas have been pacified, we are in harmony with the nature of reality, which is beyond any kind of refutation and establishment or denial and affirmation, and we have reached the true depths of the Dharma.


dondrup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2011, 06:30:59 PM »
What would happen if we do not receive teachings from an authentic lineage?? will we only not be able to find happiness or will we encounter something supernaturally wrong?? See spirits or anything along that nature??

Every cause produces a result.  If we follow a lineage that is not authentic, it will slow down our spritual progress. In the worst possible scenario, we will be led astray and it could even be harmfiul to us.  An authentic lineage means a lineage that teaches methods or practices that are proven, workable and not harmful to us.  Many of the spiritual practices or lineages in the World today can bring about happiness.  Practitioners have the option to choose the lineage to follow.

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2011, 08:44:37 PM »
Buddhism is perhaps the only religion I know that keeps a record of their source of information and teachings. They are presented on every teaching to us and I find that gives so much more credit and convincing power that the teachings are not something made up randomly or by here say. It actually has a real source and has been tested with proven results.

This gives us the conviction that firms up our faith and makes our foundation in Dharma strong. It is not just "blind" faith and for people today who thinks and debate and ask questions... Buddhism seem to appeal to them the most and is easily accepted. This is the beauty of Buddhism and I guess this is what makes it so attractive to the modern urban thinkers today.

Besides that, transmission and blessings are also passed on from one guru to another and to the student... so that the blessing of the previous lamas who taught and gave the initiation/teachings are also blessing us! How awesome is that!! How fortunate we are to have this in Buddhist system.

WoselTenzin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 05:55:02 AM »
The claim of unbroken lineage can be tricky and subject to debate.Apparently , Mahayana teachings were supposed to be lost shortly after Sakyamuni passed away. The corpus of Perfection of Wisdom Teachings were  said to be kept by the King of Nagas at the bottom of a lake until the time was right for him to pass it to Nagarjuna, who became the founder of the Mahayana tradition. Naturally, the Hinayanists are not very convinced by such an uncommon explanation and claimed that the Mahayana teachings are merely additions to their original Pali Canon and implied they are not 'authentic' words of the Buddha.

This is very interesting and i wonder if there are more to the little i know here.


What you mentioned here is very interesting KG. I do not doubt the authenticity of this sutra because they are so many great masters who have gained attainments by relying on this sutra and until today all schools of Mahayana Buddhism still study and practice this sutra and gain results. 

From the biography of Nagarjuna in the Benzin Archives (http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/teachers/lineage_masters/biography_nagarjuna.html), it is said:-
 
"When Buddha had taught Prajnaparamita, far-reaching discriminating awareness (the perfection of wisdom), the nagas had taken one version of it back to their realm for safekeeping, the gods another, and the yaksha lords of wealth yet another"

The nagas has received the teachings of this sutra directly from the Buddha himself.   Later this sutra was passed to Nagarjuna when he requested for a copy from the King of Nagas when he went to the Naga realm beneath the sea to asked for sandalwood scent for a statue of Tara and the nagas’ help in constructing temples. 

This shows that the unbroken lineage of the Perfection of Wisdom Sutra from Buddha Sakyamuni himself to present day lineage holders through Nagarjuna. 

RedLantern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 758
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 12:30:25 PM »
Autentic lineage can also be described as a chain of unending blessings from enlightened mind to the individual practitioner.  It is, therefore, the source of all the blessings that the student receives.  Without it, there are no blessings and no authentic transmission of the Buddhadharma.

It should also be pointed out that lineage is also supremely important in the other schools of Buddhism, such as Theravada and Mahayana traditions.  Although these traditions never developed a Tulku system, they do consider it vital to the integrity of their tradition to trace the lineage of their teachers directly back to the Buddha himself.  Thus lineage is not something peculiar to Vajrayana only but a common thread in all schools of Buddhism.

yontenjamyang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
    • Email
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 10:24:07 AM »
I agree with Red Lantern that all schools of Buddhism do consider lineage as important but it is more important in Tibetan Buddhism as it can be considered the most intensive as it is perhaps the only branch of Buddhism where enligthenment can be achieve within 1 life time. Hence, to have authentic lineage is important in the sense that not only the teachings and blessing much have been passed all the way from Buddha Shakyamuni; it is even more important that the practices have been practiced and the results achieved; i.e. the Gurus lineage are Lineage Holders.

MoMo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2015, 07:50:28 AM »
Apart from all excellent points posted here in this thread, in my shallow opinion, a lineage was like a time tested, well known teaching method , consistence proven result from a higher learning institution or university.

Your training may take many years, one life or more to achieve its ultimate goal. One just could not afford to train or sitting in meditation after 20 years and realized: “ Ooops I got it in reverse!”   :-[

Matibhadra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
Re: The Importance of Authentic Lineage in Buddhism
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 05:24:52 PM »
Quote
When we have understood what it was the speaker intended to communicate, if we then continue to think about each word and expression, it is as if we’ve found our elephant but now go in search of its footprints.

When we have actually understood the expressed meaning, the need to think about the means of expression fades away by itself.

Mipham's overconcern with artificially stopping thinking about the means of expression shows a lack of confidence in having actually understood the expressed meaning.

This seems to be a mark of Nyingma teachings, where a professed phobia for conceptual thought attempts to cover the lack of a proper understanding of emptiness.