HH Gaden Trisur meets Panchen Rinpoche in Tibet 2011!

[Mana]

It's amazing the Tibetan Govt in Exile and HH Dalai Lama still have not spoken up against HH Gaden Trisur Lungrik Namgyal Rinpoche till now! His Holiness Dalai Lama has spoken against a few senior lamas like Denma Locho Rinpoche of Drepung Loseling. Dalai Lama asked Denma Locho Rinpoche to travel to Tibet and speak to the people in his district to stop practicing Shugden. Denma Locho Rinpoche visited Tibet and never spoke against Shugden even one single word which made the Dalai Lama very unhappy till now. Denma Locho Rinpoche already in his 80's and not allowed to have audience with Dalai Lama.

Gaden Trisur has defected from his home monastery of Gaden Shartse. He refused to go Gaden Shartse Monastery and swear in against Shugden. Gaden Trisur's household (Labrang) and residence from Gaden Shartse has moved to Shar Gaden Monastery.

Recently, Gaden Trisur has travelled to Tibet, met up with the incarnation of Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche and conferred novice monk ordination. Thousands have shown up in Yangthing and other areas of Kham to recieve teachings, initiations and transmissions from Gaden Trisur Rinpoche.

Here is the surprise. Gaden Trisur went to have audience with the Panchen Rinpoche. You can see the Panchen Rinpoche has put a khata and red blessing string around Gaden Trisur as a sign Panchen Rinpoche blesses him. Tibetan Govt in exile has made visiting the Panchen Rinpoche tantamount to being a traitor to TGIE as he was Beijing selected. It will be interesting to see if there's any negative backlash for Gaden Trisur's visit to Panchen Rinpoche from TGIE or Dalai Lama.

It will be interesting to see how the Tibetan Govt in Exile and or HH Dalai Lama reacts to his meeting of two very high lamas who are Shugden stalwarts.

Mana

[Zach]

 

Surely another sign of hypocrasy then ? HHDL supports the chinese backed Karmapa ...
Well that is if they make a fuss.

[LosangKhyentse]

There's a difference. The incarnation of the China backed Karmapa was not identified by the Chinese but by Tai Situ Pa Rinpoche and agreed by Dalai  Lama. Where's the recognition of the Panchen Lama was picked by the golden urn device of the Chinese Govt.

TGIE can easily say, Panchen Lama is false and not the real one. While the real one recognized by Dalai Lama has never been heard from again.

TK

[dsiluvu]

This is amazing news! Thanks Mana for the latest update of HH Gaden Trisur! Where do u get all these insightful updates from???
Well whatever it is, it sure is rejoicing news to see Gaden Trisur is healthy and very much active.

HH Gaden Trisur sure is not afraid of TGIE and I am sure he knows what he did by visiting the Chinese version of Panchen Lama will not go well with TGIE. Gaden Trisur has made himself not part of the jurisdiction of TGIE, there is nothing stopping him from visiting anyone who is a Dorje Shugden practitioner. It is his choice like what HH Dalai Lama said... at the end of the day it is out choice

 

[iloveds]

its quite a gutsy move by HH Gaden Trisur to meet a Chinese backed Panchen Rinpoche. Does it say that Shugdenites can work with Chinese backed motives with regards to Religious practice and freedoms?

Or a move to get on the good side of the Chinese Govt so that Dorje Shugden Practice can spread throughout China unimpeded.

Very True TK, haven't seen anything, not even in Foreign media with regards to HHDL recognised Panchen Lama. Even the media hasn't  done any interest stories or the like surrounding the touchy subject.

Where is he now?

[dechen]

This person is the chinese puppet who acts as panchen lama. He is not the panchen lama. I will try to free real panchen lama if life gives me the opportunity, and you ?

[Zach]

There's a difference. The incarnation of the China backed Karmapa was not identified by the Chinese but by Tai Situ Pa Rinpoche and agreed by Dalai  Lama. Where's the recognition of the Panchen Lama was picked by the golden urn device of the Chinese Govt.

TGIE can easily say, Panchen Lama is false and not the real one. While the real one recognized by Dalai Lama has never been heard from again.

TK
[/quote

Tai situ pa rinpoche has some questions to answer with regards to how his selection of the 17th Karmapa is genuine, Besides Gangchen Lama has given his approval to this Panchen lama and now Trisur Rinpoche meets with him, We have no idea what has happened to the Dalai lamas selection of the Panchen Lama But do you not think the Panchen lama being a highly accomplished being would have forseen such events and made preparations for them ?

[dsiluvu]

There's a difference. The incarnation of the China backed Karmapa was not identified by the Chinese but by Tai Situ Pa Rinpoche and agreed by Dalai  Lama. Where's the recognition of the Panchen Lama was picked by the golden urn device of the Chinese Govt.

TGIE can easily say, Panchen Lama is false and not the real one. While the real one recognized by Dalai Lama has never been heard from again.

TK
[/quote

Tai situ pa rinpoche has some questions to answer with regards to how his selection of the 17th Karmapa is genuine, Besides Gangchen Lama has given his approval to this Panchen lama and now Trisur Rinpoche meets with him, We have no idea what has happened to the Dalai lamas selection of the Panchen Lama But do you not think the Panchen lama being a highly accomplished being would have forseen such events and made preparations for them ?

Yes I would believe very much so on the above, for the enlightened minds would be able to for see their future and take control of their rebirth and incarnate in to many bodies. How would we know perhaps the boy HHDL claim is the Panchen Lama is not the main mind of the Panchen Lama, but just the body?

I have heard that highly attained Lamas/masters and incarnate back in to a few and spread everywhere... many different bodies. But the main form with the mind of the master is what is most precious.

If this Panchen Lama is a total fraud then why would Gaden Trisur, such a high Lama would visit him, take pictures and get his blessings? What could the agenda be out of this visit???

[beggar]

I think the discussion about which one is the real Panchen Lama and which is fake is quite a waste of time. The supposedly "false" China-backed one has not done anything negative, as far as I have heard. I am sure, in his own way, he is bringing some benefit, hope, teachings to the people there.

I have heard some high lamas explain that in such cases, it is very possible for the Panchen Lama to have emanated as two simultaneous incarnations, and thus carry on Dharma work and benefit in different ways to suit different people at different times, as the situation calls for it.

so yes, I think the Panchen Lama (who we regard as one with Amitabha) would have "known" about all this that was going to happen. I do like to believe that he did make preparations for it - he made sure he was there all the way, even though it may have been in two separate forms. The joke, ladies and gentlemen, may be on all of us sitting here for years debating who is the real one or not. Ultimately, whether the real one is physical out here and among us or not, he will be benefitting some how, in some way. A high incarnation like this, especially one we regard as Amitabha is not so stupid as to just allow an entire lifetime to go by without him doing something of benefit.

[beggar]

The Panchen Lama discussion is besides the point anyway.

More significant is Gaden Trisur paying the visit to the Panchen Lama, and therefore to China. Making allies with China is seen as a big deal, of course, because of the huge political implications. But more than that, many lamas have been predicting its might and strength and importance in the world, especially in terms of reviving Dharma there.

Mana, thanks for pointing out that it is the Gaden Trisur with a blessed khata and string around his next (which means it was given to him by the Panchen Lama, and not the other way around). I noticed also the hand stance of both. The way the Panchen lama folds his hands (one on top of another) denotes seniority in rank. If you see Gaden Trisur's hands, he holds them in a sign of deep respect, and as someone who is of a lower rank (one hand cupped over the other open palm). Also, Gaden Trisur wears his robes as one monk would do when going to see or have audience with someone of a higher rank - Panchen Lama wears his robes wrapped fully around (which indicates he is of the higher rank) while Gaden Trisur leaves his shoulder uncovered. This is protocol as a sign of respect for when one monk visits another who is of a higher rank.

From all these signs, it is shown very clearly that Gaden Trisur defers to Panchen Lama and recognises him as a higher authority than himself. A very significant photo - it denotes a big shift in power and a recognition of a high Lama that the Tibetans never previously acknowledged.

Times are changing....

[Helena]

Fake or real - who is to say.

If Dharma is being spread, taught and brought to places where there was none - even if it was carried out by a real or fake, does it matter? At the end of the day, what matters most is that DHARMA is growing, spreading and continues to flourish.

I am so glad that HH Gaden Trisur met with the Panchen Rinpoche in Tibet! I am sure Gaden Trisur would know better what is real and fake.

Dharma is all that matters

[Big Uncle]

I admire and sing praises to all these great and courageous Lamas who uphold the lineage of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche by spreading Dorje Shugden practice in the world today. Every action of HH Gaden Trisur spreads Dorje Shugden and he does this knowing that he will be labeled a traitor, will face death threats and forever banished from his home monastery, fellow Lamas, students and so forth. His recent audience with Panchen Lama is tremendously significant for me because he is seeking blessings from Panchen Lama and so many great Dorje Shugden Lamas, who are heroes of the lineage and the truth have sought blessings from Panchen Lama. It is their public recognition of Panchen Lama because the recognition from the Dalai Lama would not be forthcoming.

The Dalai Lamas and the Panchen Lamas for many lifetimes have evolved a very close spiritual relationship of student and disciple just like how Dorje Shugden's previous lives (Panchen Sonam Drakpa & Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen) had evolved. For many lifetimes they had formal teacher-disciple relationship and there some lifetimes, they were seemingly at odds with each other. In the current situation, if the Dalai Lama were to recognize Panchen Lama, it would jeorpadize this young incarnation's Dharma work in China. His credibility and allegiance to the Chinese government would be questioned and we may never see him again just like the other emanation recognized by the Dalai Lama. Perhaps that emanation's role was to be a 'smokescreen' so this incarnation, which most likely to be the mind or main incarnation can manifest fully in China.

Proof of that, great and obviously clairvoyant Dorje Shugden Lamas have paid their respects to this Panchen Lama and the Dalai Lama is doing him great service by keeping quiet. The Chinese government think they have a puppet in this Lama and promote him. He will be the one to spread the Dharma in massive China where the Dalai Lama cannot reach and China will eventually dominate the world in our lifetime. I suspect when he is more mature and can command more respect, he will be more and more overt about Dorje Shugden. Just sit tight, dedicate lots of merits for this to happen and watch this great Lama spread Dorje Shugden all over....

[DharmaSpace]

In the lamrim a lady could chant a mantra wrongly and due to her pure faith she could cook rocks for food.

If that can happen, if people do view the chinese backed panchen lama as a realised being , then that person will get the blessing of a realised being or enlightened being.

Ah have faith in Dorje Shugden to make sure buddha dharma will once again flood the lands of the Yellow Emperor.

[dsiluvu]

The Panchen Lama discussion is besides the point anyway.

More significant is Gaden Trisur paying the visit to the Panchen Lama, and therefore to China. Making allies with China is seen as a big deal, of course, because of the huge political implications. But more than that, many lamas have been predicting its might and strength and importance in the world, especially in terms of reviving Dharma there.

Mana, thanks for pointing out that it is the Gaden Trisur with a blessed khata and string around his next (which means it was given to him by the Panchen Lama, and not the other way around). I noticed also the hand stance of both. The way the Panchen lama folds his hands (one on top of another) denotes seniority in rank. If you see Gaden Trisur's hands, he holds them in a sign of deep respect, and as someone who is of a lower rank (one hand cupped over the other open palm). Also, Gaden Trisur wears his robes as one monk would do when going to see or have audience with someone of a higher rank - Panchen Lama wears his robes wrapped fully around (which indicates he is of the higher rank) while Gaden Trisur leaves his shoulder uncovered. This is protocol as a sign of respect for when one monk visits another who is of a higher rank.

From all these signs, it is shown very clearly that Gaden Trisur defers to Panchen Lama and recognises him as a higher authority than himself. A very significant photo - it denotes a big shift in power and a recognition of a high Lama that the Tibetans never previously acknowledged.

Times are changing....

Thanks for this information on Tibetan Lamas and protocols. I would not have known how to spot otherwise! All Tibetan monks who see this will surely know and picture sure speaks a thousand words.

Yes it is true who is real or fake really doesn't matter in the end as long as Dharma is spread and preserved. I use to wonder even if this Panchen Lama was picked to fill in the shoes of the one being arrested... the Chinese sure needed to pick someone of that capacity and level to be able to carry that title Panchen Lama.. it cannot be just anybody from the streets. And what a huge shoes to fit. He must definitely be not the average Joe, that is for sure.

[LosangKhyentse]

While His Holiness Gaden Trisur was in Tibet, a few groups were trying to boycott his teachings. These groups were trying to influence others against attending teachings. In the end thousands flocked to recieve empowerment and advice from HH Gaden Trisur. Many did not heed the warnings Gaden Trisur is still practicing Dorje Shugden. It didn't make sense if HH Gaden Trisur is practicing Shugden, that Shugden can be bad. The thousands who flocked were blessed by empowerment, teachings, blessings from HH Gaden Trisur who is a most qualified spiritual master of the highest calibre and who in our degenerate times show us true guru devotion is never something that should be overshadowed by politics. Politics does not help us at the time of our deaths, but guru devotion/practice will. My faith in HH Gaden Trisur is strong and growing. I feel very much indebted to HH Gaden Trisur for his pristine example during these must trying and 'dark' times.

The groups who protested finally backed down and were silenced. They could not influence the thousands in Kham who attended His Holiness Gaden Trisur Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal's most blessed teachings.

Heroic lamas like HH Gaden Trisur inspire tens of thousands of Shugden practitioners in Tibet and the rest of the world. He blesses us and re-assures (if we need the re-assurance at all) that we are on the right path. HH Gaden Trisur holds the torch to Trijang Rinpoche's lineage strongly and he holds it up high. If someone like HH Gaden Trisur can be wrong, then all of us have no higher authority to look up to and I guess we should all prepare to enter the three lower realms after this life has passed. But that will not be the case. For if it was the case,  then we would meet Dakpo Dorje Chang, Gelek Rinpoche,  Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Trisur Rinpoche, Panchen Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Geshe Kelsang, Zong Rinpoche, Zemey Rinpoche, Dagom Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, Panchen Sonam Drakpa, Drayab Loden Sherab, Lati Rinpoche, Geshe Rabten, Gonsar Rinpoche, Denma Gonsar Rinpoche, Geshe Lobsang Pende, Samdhong Rinpoche, etc etc etc  there also. We would be in good company.

TK