Surprising speech by Samdhong Rinpoche

[thaimonk]

For me, the whole point about Samdhong Rinpoche's speech is that it shows that what looks superficially negative, ie Samdhong Rinpoche's consistent and vehement attack on Shugden, is actually positive when I see the motivation and intent behind his stance, which is that he was merely practising Guru devotion to HH Trijang Rinpoche. Let's just look at that and realise that Samdhong Rinpoche did not break samaya with his protector or his Guru despite the outward actions. This is a good lesson for us to not judge others, especially armed with our flawed and limited perceptions. If we can presume to judge another attained being when we are not attained ourselves, does it merely reflect on the size of our egos?

I like what you wrote here. Thanks.

[beggar]

Wisdombeing,

And now if you meet Samdhong Rinpoche and he tells you:

“Now, without fear and hesitation,you,Wisdombeing, must fight and destroy Shugden followers”

Do you think you will have to exert some critical thinking ?

Or do you merely think: "If I presume to judge another attained being when I am nott attained myself, 
it will merely reflect on the size of my ego. So I have to follow his advice without any form of critical thinking.

There is a difference between thinking logically / acting according to what you feel is most logical and correct and having wrong, negative views of other lamas and then acting out of that.

We may not necessarily have to agree with what Samdhong Rinpoche is telling us to do (i.e. give up Shugden) because we have the advice of our own Lamas which is priority. But understanding where he is coming from, or when we at least maintain some kind of neutrality, we will at least refrain from speaking or acting in negative ways towards him, which does create negative karma (speaking badly of anyone incurs negative karma, least of all a high lama).

This is a good practice to have, whether it applies specifically to this situation or to other more general situations - to train ourselves to look at something for what it is, neutrally, or at least not to habituate ourselves to instantly thinking negatively of something. We never quite know who the real object of our anger might be. If in fact Samdhong Rinpoche is an incarnation of Dorje Shugden himself, as many Dorje Shugden Lamas have proclaimed, then bashing him and inciting others to hate him incurs a very heavy karma.

[DharmaSpace]

If Samdhong Rinpoche is truly and overtly anti dorje shugden he does not have to speak the way he did in the interview.

I grew up in an environment that sometimes you have to read between the lines and information is not always presented in a direct manner. looking at the transcript of the video I feel strongly that Samdhong Rinpoche true to the tibetan buddhism tradition was true to his guru's instructions. His root guru mind you was the great Gelugpa master Trijang Rinpoche.  Trijang Rinpoche's previous incarnation and current incarnation his devotion to Dorje Shugden has never wavered at all no matter what.

Samdhong Rinpoche is he truly anti dorje shugden ? I think not. I think enough reasonable doubt has been thrown into the mix about Samdhong Rinpoche's views about Dorje Shugden to label him as purely anti Dorje Shudgen. Who knows maybe when his term is over he might switch over like the 101st Gaden Tripa.

[Heartspoon]

Wisdombeing,

And now if you meet Samdhong Rinpoche and he tells you:

“Now, without fear and hesitation,you,Wisdombeing, must fight and destroy Shugden followers”

Do you think you will have to exert some critical thinking ?

Or do you merely think: "If I presume to judge another attained being when I am nott attained myself, 
it will merely reflect on the size of my ego. So I have to follow his advice without any form of critical thinking.

There is a difference between thinking logically / acting according to what you feel is most logical and correct and having wrong, negative views of other lamas and then acting out of that.

We may not necessarily have to agree with what Samdhong Rinpoche is telling us to do (i.e. give up Shugden) because we have the advice of our own Lamas which is priority. But understanding where he is coming from, or when we at least maintain some kind of neutrality, we will at least refrain from speaking or acting in negative ways towards him, which does create negative karma (speaking badly of anyone incurs negative karma, least of all a high lama).

This is a good practice to have, whether it applies specifically to this situation or to other more general situations - to train ourselves to look at something for what it is, neutrally, or at least not to habituate ourselves to instantly thinking negatively of something. We never quite know who the real object of our anger might be. If in fact Samdhong Rinpoche is an incarnation of Dorje Shugden himself, as many Dorje Shugden Lamas have proclaimed, then bashing him and inciting others to hate him incurs a very heavy karma.

Yes, indeed...

As the first Panchen Lama Losang Chokyi Gyaltsen said

"Since we cannot see others' minds.
We should make an effort to appreciate everyone's views,
But I cannot accept those who spread wrong views
and by this lead many living beings astray."

[Heartspoon]

Wisdombeing,

And now if you meet Samdhong Rinpoche and he tells you:

“Now, without fear and hesitation,you,Wisdombeing, must fight and destroy Shugden followers”

Do you think you will have to exert some critical thinking ?

Or do you merely think: "If I presume to judge another attained being when I am nott attained myself, 
it will merely reflect on the size of my ego. So I have to follow his advice without any form of critical thinking.

There is a difference between thinking logically / acting according to what you feel is most logical and correct and having wrong, negative views of other lamas and then acting out of that.

We may not necessarily have to agree with what Samdhong Rinpoche is telling us to do (i.e. give up Shugden) because we have the advice of our own Lamas which is priority. But understanding where he is coming from, or when we at least maintain some kind of neutrality, we will at least refrain from speaking or acting in negative ways towards him, which does create negative karma (speaking badly of anyone incurs negative karma, least of all a high lama).

This is a good practice to have, whether it applies specifically to this situation or to other more general situations - to train ourselves to look at something for what it is, neutrally, or at least not to habituate ourselves to instantly thinking negatively of something. We never quite know who the real object of our anger might be. If in fact Samdhong Rinpoche is an incarnation of Dorje Shugden himself, as many Dorje Shugden Lamas have proclaimed, then bashing him and inciting others to hate him incurs a very heavy karma.

Beggar,

Applying your own advice, you should not "instantly think negatively" of what I wrote.
What on earth makes you think that I am speaking or acting in negative ways towards him ?
Please think again and read very carefully what I wrote, from the first to the last message in this discussion.

[DSFriend]

For me, the whole point about Samdhong Rinpoche's speech is that it shows that what looks superficially negative, ie Samdhong Rinpoche's consistent and vehement attack on Shugden, is actually positive when I see the motivation and intent behind his stance, which is that he was merely practising Guru devotion to HH Trijang Rinpoche. Let's just look at that and realise that Samdhong Rinpoche did not break samaya with his protector or his Guru despite the outward actions. This is a good lesson for us to not judge others, especially armed with our flawed and limited perceptions. If we can presume to judge another attained being when we are not attained ourselves, does it merely reflect on the size of our egos?

I would like to add another point to your view which I appreciate very much.

I may be generalizing, but most people got upset with HHDL is because the ban hurts people, thus the protests for religious rights, and human rights. To be honest, how many really cares if Samdhong Rinpoche practices Guru Devotion or not and he breaks his samaya with his protector or not. Thus, Samdhong Rinpoche "supporting" HHDL's ban even though he is practising Guru Devotion still doesn't quite answer .. "then what about the people who got hurt" question.

Thinking about it, I am not able to answer the question directly about karmic effects. However, my lack of understanding does not give me the right to condemn. It is precisely knowing that i do not have full understanding nor attainments to perceive, thus, i must exercise even more awareness to not condemn...if I have any faith in higher beings and the workings of karma.

I can't see the full extent of the effects from the ban, but i can definately see the results of the kind of being H.H. Trijang Rinpoche is. Therefore, my mind is at rest with what he tells Samdhong Rinpoche to do.

Can anyone carry out the instruction just like Samdhong Rinpoche.. flawlessly despite his lack of concerns for Tibet's national affairs and definately he does not support the ban? Does anyone of us have such strong guru devotion? I find him to be a very uncommon being.

[Heartspoon]

For me, the whole point about Samdhong Rinpoche's speech is that it shows that what looks superficially negative, ie Samdhong Rinpoche's consistent and vehement attack on Shugden, is actually positive when I see the motivation and intent behind his stance, which is that he was merely practising Guru devotion to HH Trijang Rinpoche. Let's just look at that and realise that Samdhong Rinpoche did not break samaya with his protector or his Guru despite the outward actions. This is a good lesson for us to not judge others, especially armed with our flawed and limited perceptions. If we can presume to judge another attained being when we are not attained ourselves, does it merely reflect on the size of our egos?

I would like to add another point to your view which I appreciate very much.

I may be generalizing, but most people got upset with HHDL is because the ban hurts people, thus the protests for religious rights, and human rights. To be honest, how many really cares if Samdhong Rinpoche practices Guru Devotion or not and he breaks his samaya with his protector or not. Thus, Samdhong Rinpoche "supporting" HHDL's ban even though he is practising Guru Devotion still doesn't quite answer .. "then what about the people who got hurt" question.

Thinking about it, I am not able to answer the question directly about karmic effects. However, my lack of understanding does not give me the right to condemn. It is precisely knowing that i do not have full understanding nor attainments to perceive, thus, i must exercise even more awareness to not condemn...if I have any faith in higher beings and the workings of karma.

I can't see the full extent of the effects from the ban, but i can definately see the results of the kind of being H.H. Trijang Rinpoche is. Therefore, my mind is at rest with what he tells Samdhong Rinpoche to do.

Can anyone carry out the instruction just like Samdhong Rinpoche.. flawlessly despite his lack of concerns for Tibet's national affairs and definately he does not support the ban? Does anyone of us have such strong guru devotion? I find him to be a very uncommon being.

DSFriend,

I like very much the following advice thatf HH the 14th Dalai Lama gave concerning this topic:

"It is necessary to clarify these matters. Otherwise, some of you might have your suspicions. Maybe there are still some of you who, in seeming deference to the Dalai Lama make out as though you agree and follow me in this, but who privately harbour other thoughts. Others of you may be thinking, ‘well I am not sure of the reasons, but as it is something that the Dalai Lama has instructed, I must abide by it’. I want to stress again that I do not support this attitude at all. This is a ridiculous approach. This is a position that one should come to by weighing the evidence and then using one's discernment about what it would be best to adopt and what best to avoid."

[vajrastorm]

in light of this very stunning new development - a shocking revelation by Samdhong Rinpoche(the outgoing Kalon Tripa(Prime Minister of the TGIE) in this speech - and the sea change in our perspective of  "good" and "bad" as prompted by this speech, I am glad that this website has always maintained a stance of neutrality in this Dalai Lama/ Dorje Shugden controversy.

Here it will be timely to remind ourselves of what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche himself says about the importance of not taking sides in this controversy, which he must have foreseen was going to take place.He says that those who take sides and speak badly "about either in wrong conduct"are displaying "the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the INFLUENCE OF ATTACHMENT AND HATRED just tries to help friends and hurt enemies: it OBSCURES THE INCREASE OF THESE GREAT HOLY ARYAS' DEEDS AND CREATES THE KARMIC CAUSE TO EXPERIENCE UNBEARABLE SUFFERING IN THE FUTURE".

Thus , we see how true and relevant his words are when it comes to such great attained beings, like Samdhong Rinpoche. Samdhong Rinpoce shows us how how Guru Devotion can be taken to new levels by compassionate beings who work only for the ultimate benefit of all beings.While seeming to be obeying and supporting the Dalai Lama in upholding his ban on the Dorje Shugden practice and also allowing the subsequent suffering of Shugden practitioners, he was merely following 100 % the instructions of his root Guru, the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche.How patient and compassionate he has been to suffer all the stinging criticisms and brickbats in response to his 'negative' actions and words against Dorje Shugden practitioners. And to think he is en emanation of Dorje Shugden as both great masters, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Gangchen Rinpoche have affirmed!

So now the BIGGER PICTURE is emerging surely and steadily. Two and more compassionate Enlightened beings are working together - Chenrezig and Dorje Shugen and many great Masters along with them. All are united towards one end:  that the Dharma, that Je Tsongkhapa's  and Gelugpa lineage teachings, will grow and spread in all directions unrelentingly, for the benefit of all beings!

[DharmaDefender]

Wisdombeing,

And now if you meet Samdhong Rinpoche and he tells you:

“Now, without fear and hesitation,you,Wisdombeing, must fight and destroy Shugden followers”

Do you think you will have to exert some critical thinking ?

Or do you merely think: "If I presume to judge another attained being when I am nott attained myself, 
it will merely reflect on the size of my ego. So I have to follow his advice without any form of critical thinking.

There is a difference between thinking logically / acting according to what you feel is most logical and correct and having wrong, negative views of other lamas and then acting out of that.

We may not necessarily have to agree with what Samdhong Rinpoche is telling us to do (i.e. give up Shugden) because we have the advice of our own Lamas which is priority. But understanding where he is coming from, or when we at least maintain some kind of neutrality, we will at least refrain from speaking or acting in negative ways towards him, which does create negative karma (speaking badly of anyone incurs negative karma, least of all a high lama).

This is a good practice to have, whether it applies specifically to this situation or to other more general situations - to train ourselves to look at something for what it is, neutrally, or at least not to habituate ourselves to instantly thinking negatively of something. We never quite know who the real object of our anger might be. If in fact Samdhong Rinpoche is an incarnation of Dorje Shugden himself, as many Dorje Shugden Lamas have proclaimed, then bashing him and inciting others to hate him incurs a very heavy karma.

Yes, indeed...

As the first Panchen Lama Losang Chokyi Gyaltsen said

"Since we cannot see others' minds.
We should make an effort to appreciate everyone's views,
But I cannot accept those who spread wrong views
and by this lead many living beings astray."

I can see where your coming from...just because Im not Christian, doesn't mean Im against Jesus. I just dont accept him. But at the same time I dont talk negatively about him because my knowledge of his teachings and his motivation is lacking.

[Heartspoon]

"Thus before undertaking to practice any dharma teaching,
we must first make a general investigation.

As Lord Sakya Pandita said:

When (wordly persons) buy and sell
Common things like a horse or jewels,
They question everyone and examine (the items) closely.
We can observe these efforts being made
In the petty affairs of this life.
Yet, though the happiness of our lives
Depends on the holy dharma,
(The foolish) act like dogs with food.
Without examining its merits in any way,
They rever whatever they happen to find."

Liberation In Our Hands
Pabongka Rinpoche

[Heartspoon]

Wisdombeing,

And now if you meet Samdhong Rinpoche and he tells you:

“Now, without fear and hesitation,you,Wisdombeing, must fight and destroy Shugden followers”

Do you think you will have to exert some critical thinking ?

Or do you merely think: "If I presume to judge another attained being when I am nott attained myself, 
it will merely reflect on the size of my ego. So I have to follow his advice without any form of critical thinking.

There is a difference between thinking logically / acting according to what you feel is most logical and correct and having wrong, negative views of other lamas and then acting out of that.

We may not necessarily have to agree with what Samdhong Rinpoche is telling us to do (i.e. give up Shugden) because we have the advice of our own Lamas which is priority. But understanding where he is coming from, or when we at least maintain some kind of neutrality, we will at least refrain from speaking or acting in negative ways towards him, which does create negative karma (speaking badly of anyone incurs negative karma, least of all a high lama).

This is a good practice to have, whether it applies specifically to this situation or to other more general situations - to train ourselves to look at something for what it is, neutrally, or at least not to habituate ourselves to instantly thinking negatively of something. We never quite know who the real object of our anger might be. If in fact Samdhong Rinpoche is an incarnation of Dorje Shugden himself, as many Dorje Shugden Lamas have proclaimed, then bashing him and inciting others to hate him incurs a very heavy karma.

Yes, indeed...

As the first Panchen Lama Losang Chokyi Gyaltsen said

"Since we cannot see others' minds.
We should make an effort to appreciate everyone's views,
But I cannot accept those who spread wrong views
and by this lead many living beings astray."

I can see where your coming from...just because Im not Christian, doesn't mean Im against Jesus. I just dont accept him. But at the same time I dont talk negatively about him because my knowledge of his teachings and his motivation is lacking.

If the basis is ignorance, then of course I agree that it will be rather difficult to act in any meaningful way.

[WisdomBeing]

Wisdombeing,

And now if you meet Samdhong Rinpoche and he tells you:

“Now, without fear and hesitation,you,Wisdombeing, must fight and destroy Shugden followers”

Do you think you will have to exert some critical thinking ?

Or do you merely think: "If I presume to judge another attained being when I am nott attained myself, 
it will merely reflect on the size of my ego. So I have to follow his advice without any form of critical thinking.

In response to your hypothetical question, Heartspoon, If Samdhong Rinpoche tells me i should do this, i would not follow his advice because I do not agree with it and he is not my Guru. However, i would not think negatively on his request because i have no idea what his motivation is. So this is consistent with my previous statement which is not to judge an attained being when i am not attained myself.

The basis of all wrong views is surely ignorance but while we individually work on removing our various levels of ignorance, let's try not to be critical of and put down each other's different views.

Love and peace as always!!

[Heartspoon]

Patrul Rinpoche was roaming the Tibetan mountains. One day he heard
about a great hermit who had spent twenty years in a cave meditating on
the Perfection of Patience. Desirous to meet such a saintly being, he went
in search of his cave.

Poking his head around the entrance, he called out, "Hello there, what are you doing?"
His meditation disrupted by this impertinent question, the hermit opened one eye and
inquired, "What do you want?”

The beggar crouched down in front of him, his eyes glinting with mischief,
without uttering a word. "Who are you? Where do you come from?" pressed the hermit.
"I come from behind my back, and I'm going in the direction I am facing."

Nonplussed, the hermit continued, "Where were you born, on earth ? "
OK, he said, trying to contain his rising frustration, "What do you want ? "
"Well, I was curious to know what you're doing here."

The hermit was keen to impress this simpleton. "You see my son,
I have been meditating here for twenty years on Lord Buddha's
Perfection of Patience."

The beggar howled with laughter, poking him in the ribs with a dirty
finger, and said, "Oh, what a great scam ! Gullible locals, are they?
How much are you making these days?

The hermit thundered, "How dare you! You barge in here. You give me
all these crazy lines. Now you insult me. OUT! OUT!"

As he rose to leave, Patrul Rinpoche calmly  observed,
"And where's your perfect patience now?"

The hermit's anger froze instantly, as he realized the vanity of his
claim. Sitting down and taking a deep breath, he started meditating in
earnest for the first time.

Patrul Rimpoche lived in the nineteenth century and was one of the
greatest scholars in Buddhism. This highly realized saint roamed all over
Tibet anonymously, dressed as a beggar, creating mischief along the way.

His primary goal was to focus the mind of people on true spiritual
pursuits, while exposing false teachings and fake spirituality.

This hermit had deluded himself for over twenty years, and grew
comfortable in it. But a single encounter with a master can shatter a
lifetime of delusions and establish us on the true path.

Were these twenty years of previous meditation a waste of time?
Quite the contrary. They were the necessary preparation to bring about
this profound transformation.

Posted on IndiaDivine.Org by a guest

[triesa]

Lets us not forget that Samdhong Rinpoche is recognised as a Shugden incarnation, so why would a shugden incarnate condemn his own practice if not for Guru Devotion here by adhereing and following  the advice from  his root guru Trijang Rinpoche, which is to serve HHDL and the Tibetan government well....

The picture is really getting clearer and clearer as more Shugden lamas are speaking up while HHDl is fading behind the political scene slowly. And now even Samdhong Rinpoche bravely spoke about his committment to his root Guru Trijang Rinpoche who is a well known Dorje Shudgen practitioner........ The changing of the guardian will take place soon, as the events unfold slowly.

[Mana]

It is very encouraging to hear what Samdhong Rinpoche is openly declaring now that his term as Kalong Tripa is finished. He is like Gaden Trisur joining Shar Gaden after his term as Gaden Tripa completed. No one can do anything to Samdhong Rinpoche because his term is over.

Samdhong Rinpoche in his erudite scholarly knowledge and steadfast guru devotion, would definitely comprehend fully his root guru Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is not wrong in recognizing Shugden as Manjushri. I feel Samdhong Rinpoche is playing his part in the Bigger Picture theory. What else could it be? 

The Dalai Lama's power is handed over to a secular 'head'. Dalai Lama is aging very much. The manifestation of Tibet's pleas for independence or autonomy is as real as a horned rabbit clearly signifying the failure of Tibetan Govt in exile. The Tibetans in exile themselves are taking every opportunity to immigrate to Europe and North America while they can. They have great fear for the time after the Dalai Lama is gone. Lobsang Sangay may be young, educated and eloquent, but what can he do? What can any Tibetans in exile do that they have not done already. The Tibetans living abroad within 2-3 generations will lose their culture, language and connections. All immigrants eventually do. The semblences of the 'old country' fades as they adopt the customs of the new country. It wouldn't be any different for the Tibetans. The Tibetans in Tibet are starting to embrace the China recognized Panchen Rinpoche. Looks like the red star over Tibet remains while the snow lion of Tibet is nowhere to be seen.

Dalai Lama is a man and men die. Men's dreams, hopes, wishes, likes all fade with time. Shugden is a 'god'...he will last much longer.

I am sure of the Bigger Picture. I remain steadfast to it.

Mana