CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?

[happysun]

Cannot believe a ordained nun can do this kind of thing for a holy item???
What is the purpose of doing this action!!!???
So more this statue had blessed by many high lamas.
Cannot believe it......cannot.....believe.....

[Carpenter]

Being a nun or a monk does not change their true character, when they are still a lay people, they have been very mean, sneaky, selfish all the time, even after ordained, their character will remain the same, the only thing that can make them change is the dharma they have learned and apply it in their daily life, so, obviously they are not complying what they have learned.

As from the action are by individual, so not all sangha are like that, some will transformed fast but some will not, so for those who are not, they will do something very obvious to attract attention and to show that they are doing their practice very well by following the what Dalai Lama said, this could be a way to cover their weaknesses.

[DharmaDefender]

Yeah Im not surprised they did what they did. Like what Carpenters said, becoming a monk or nun doesnt change someones character, especially if they became ordained

It also complicates things that theyre Tibetan so they have two loyalties - their monastery and the Dalai Lama. If the Dalai Lamas against DS and the government says to suppress the people and smash the images, and the monastery is against DS practice, whaddaya think these nuns were going to do?

Well they couldve come to their own logical conclusion, you say? Well they didnt need to listen to the monastery or Dalai Lama? Come on - if independent thinking was a Tibetan trait, China owuldnt have taken over Tibet so easily. It was all the dithering in between and um-ing and ah-ing about stuff, and inability to think logically when it comes to the Dalai Lama and their government, that lost them their country.

[Lawrence L]

IF the nuns really broke the statue up or handle the statue in disrespectful way , they were not practicing Dharma. For people who loves Dharma, who intergrates their lives with Dharma, whenever he/she encounters things that he/she hate or whatsoever, he/she wouldn't wish to harm people or anything.

This is because our perception towards a person/thing that caused us to 'feel' the pain or feel the sweet part. If we really feel the pain, it doesn't means that we could go and harm people or anything else. Hating or loving someone or something is all about our own mind. Why we put the responsibility on others and cause them to suffer?

This is not the core of the Buddha's teaching. Whenever we have the mind or action or speech to harm others, we create tremendous bad karma for ourselves.

My point is, if you hate someone or something, leave it there. Don't go and harm. Don't be the cause to others suffering.

By letting people depressed, uneasy or insecure etc, are we going to experience any happiness? NOT AT ALL.

[hope rainbow]

I wonder though.

It is because of these types of thought and actions (*) that this site exist.

That this site exists allows for many people to create merit by participating to it and also gives many an opportunity to connect with Dorje Shugden or at least get imprints.

The merit for being part of the cause for this site's very existence, that merit... is it also collected by these nuns unknowingly?

I wonder...

(*) I am referring to the nuns thoughts and actions

[icy]

I believe these nuns from Gaden Choling though overwhelm with the negative karma of desecrating a Dorje Shugden statue on their side will create a connection for Dorje Shugden to benefit them in the future.  After all Dorje Shugden is Manjushri, the Wisdom Buddha.  I have no doubt about this.

[dondrup]

April 5th, 1996

The perpetrators, Lobsang Dechen, disciplinarian of the nunnery, assisted by nun Tenzin Tselha and Dolma Yangzom, spat at, sat on, broken up into pieces, and then thrown the remains into the town's garbage dump.[/color]
(from www.shugdensociety.info)
   

The ordained sangha are the ambassadors of Buddhism.  They are the Sangha Jewels who are supposed to uphold the Dharma.  To behave and act in the ways that these three nuns had done is very damaging to the image of Buddhism.  It is very disrespectful to the Three Jewels!
 
What kind of impressions are these nuns creating in the minds of others?  They outrightly stop or prevent people who may be interested to embrace Buddhism as a religion or a way of life.  Who would want to send their children to the monastery to study Buddhism?  Who would want to become a nun or study Buddhism if the monastery or Buddhism produces nuns whose actions and behaviours are so unbecoming!
 
A disciplinarian is someone who ensures everyone follows the rules and vows in the monastery.  Lobsang Dechen, disciplinarian of the nunnery had set a very bad example to others!
 
It ‘appears’ that the nun had acted ignorantly by following HH Dalai Lama’s instructions. What confuses the World till today is why is HH Dalai Lama enforcing the ban on Dorje Shugden?  This question is waiting to be answered.
 
May the truth prevails.  Dorje Shugden is meant for everyone.  The ban on Dorje Shugden must be lifted quickly!

[beggar]

I wonder though.

It is because of these types of thought and actions (*) that this site exist.

That this site exists allows for many people to create merit by participating to it and also gives many an opportunity to connect with Dorje Shugden or at least get imprints.

The merit for being part of the cause for this site's very existence, that merit... is it also collected by these nuns unknowingly?

I wonder...

(*) I am referring to the nuns thoughts and actions

That's an interesting thought. I couldn't tell you the answer for sure, although I do think that motivation certainly plays a very large role in this - I don't think people like this think for even a moment that they actions would lead to the growth of Dorje Shugden in any way. The very act is to suppress the practice - the four completing factors are there when they break the statue, so in that way, i imagine, the demerit and negative karma gained from such an act would far outdo whatever small merit they might have from even touching the statue.

Then again, as someone has mentioned earlier, even seeing or doing anything in relations to an image, whether negative or positive, does plant imprints of Dharma in people's minds which can open up later for them to practice. This is different from merit though.

[Carpenter]

All negative action collects negative karma regardless of end result is being positive or negative, more over now we are talking about destroying buddha’s statue / image, the amount of negative karma will be un-imaginable.

As per what Beggar said, whether negative or positive action towards an image, the dharma imprints will be planted, even though their negative karma will bring them to the lower realms, but the dharma imprints will not disappear, it will stay with them until many lifetimes (depends on the merits they have) later when someone / something triggered this imprints, then this person will be able to walk into the path of dharma again.

It all depends on our motivation when we commit to a negative action, if our motivation is to benefit others or to make dharma grow, then besides collecting negative karma, we also collect certain amount of merits, from this, it will help us to walk into the dharma path faster.

The above is what I remember, please correct if I’m wrong.

[Amitabha]

according to scripture, both the nun and DL are damaging their own mind. the scripture advice is to be metta with yourself and others especially as ordained nun and monk in the monastic community that ought to be meditatively in metta bliss

[michaela]

My dear friends

Last month, I attended a talk by Ajahn Brahm - a well known Buddhist teacher from Perth Australia.  He told us a story about the 2005's incident when an American soldier flushed a copy of the koran down the toilet.  The incident caused international outrage.  When a reporter asked Ajahn Brahm about what will he do if this happened to Buddhist scriptures, he said, he will call a plumber.  That is the most sensible response I have heard from the religious leaders.  I think the same case can be applied related to this incident 

[WisdomBeing]

hi Michaela,

I love that story... I have heard that Ajahn Brahm is very down to earth and your story does confirm that. He IS a Londoner after all

Going back to the topic at hand.. I guess even though monks and nuns are ordained and have to keep their vows etc, there are many different levels of monks and nuns and some may not represent the Sangha well. In this case, the nuns were probably being overzealous in following the Dalai Lama’s instructions and their inner rather destructive selves surfaced in a non-sangha way. I wonder if their karma (from destroying a Buddha image) is less affected because they had followed the Dalai Lama’s instructions.

[michaela]

Dear WisdomBeing

I think the heaviness of the karma of this nuns would depend very much on their motivation for executing this action.  Doing damage to DS statue in my opinion may not necessarily result in heavy bad karma if for example the motivation is that of students serving their guru's, to make DS more well known because this incident will be well recorded and attracted attention.  On the other hand if the motivation is negative (e.g., hatred), it will result in bad karma.

I think the above observation is consistent with the following video article of Samdhong Rinpoche:

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8656

He temporarily give up DS and support the ban and the Dalai Lama because his Guru, Trijang Rinpoche asked him to do so.  So he has a strong Guru Devotion, and I don't think his motivation while working for Tibetan government in exile is bad at all.

[WisdomBeing]

It is true that motivation determines the resulting karma. For the nuns, I guess we can never guess what their real motivation is. Whether it was to simply follow instructions with regret in their hearts or that they actually enjoyed desecrating the statue. Also it would make a difference if they thought that Dorje Shugden was really enlightened or not. If they thought Dorje Shugden was enlightened yet desecrated the statue, the karma would be heavier than if they believed Dorje Shugden was a spirit.

[triesa]

My dear friends

Last month, I attended a talk by Ajahn Brahm - a well known Buddhist teacher from Perth Australia.  He told us a story about the 2005's incident when an American soldier flushed a copy of the koran down the toilet.  The incident caused international outrage.  When a reporter asked Ajahn Brahm about what will he do if this happened to Buddhist scriptures, he said, he will call a plumber.  That is the most sensible response I have heard from the religious leaders.  I think the same case can be applied related to this incident 

Great beings like Ajahn Brahm would answer a "seemingly" provocative question in the most " simple and sensible" answer. We definitely can learn so much from this, Ajahn Brahm sees the incident as it is, his toilet would be blocked and he needs a plumber to solve the problem. If this question was asked to a another person, very likely the answer would be revolving issues like no respect of other religion, one should not be handling holy scripture in a disrespectful way, etc, etc.

If we abide to freedom of human rights and freedom of expression, then the American soldier and the nuns in the monastery were both expressing their feelings.  As they were expressing their emotions through their actions, we outsiders will then apply our own experience and culture to judge the actions of the American soldier or the nuns.

I wonder what would we say on the actions of the nuns destroying the DS statue, if we were Ajahn Brahm??