When the Ban lifts

[DharmaSpace]

When the Ban lifts what will happen to monasteries like the Gaden, Sera and Drepung ?

Will the current monasteries who support Dorje Shugden be merged back into the traditional monasteries?

What will it do to the monks in the traditional Gelugpa monasteries who previously opposed the Dorej Shugden practise? Will they take it up again?

[Zach]

I really hope not you know, Shar gaden and serpom are better off on their own now rather then to be merged back again at some later point, Besides each monastry has its own specific protector and Dorje shugden has been something of a lineage protector rather then a monastry protector. I dont think there was any major monastry with him as the principle protector but that Dorje shugden practise was largely practised in conjunction with the monastic protector while many take Dorje shugden as the lineages principle protector it sounds wiser now to have specific monastrys devoted to him as the monastry protector like Shar gaden and serpom are now.

That is if things are predicted as true then everyone will end up practising Dorje shugden and it will be common place in all monastrys world wide, which ever sect you are.

[Big Uncle]

I don't think there would be any great difference to the 3 great monasteries except the fact that they will quickly setup Dorje Shugden chapels in each of them. I am sure plenty of hidden Dorje Shugden practitioners are within their midst. They are just too learned to accept the Dalai Lama's ban blindly. I think the great Dorje Shugden Lamas will be busy going back and forth and reintroducing Dorje Shugden to them and giving massive large scale Dorje Shugden initiations to the monastics.

On the other hand, the current Dorje Shugden monasteries might be re-absorbed back into the great monasteries if the ban is lifted in the next 5-10 years. If the ban is lifted after that, it would be difficult to join the monasteries as they would have grown independently and the administration would be too massive to re-absorb back to the mother monasteries.  So they would remain independent and thereby, they become a testament to the difficult ban on Dorje Shugden. 

[DharmaSpace]

Thanks for sharing my friends your sharing has opened up my mind about my question.

I do think if the monasteries do not recombine it is probably a good thing to have more Gelugpa institutions all over. Hence if such a threat to subdue the Gaden tradition arises again, there will be more than enough institutions to oppose such a move.

[WoselTenzin]

When the Ban lifts what will happen to monasteries like the Gaden, Sera and Drepung ?

Will the current monasteries who support Dorje Shugden be merged back into the traditional monasteries?

What will it do to the monks in the traditional Gelugpa monasteries who previously opposed the Dorej Shugden practise? Will they take it up again?

When the ban is lifted, the DS practitioners of Gaden, Sera and Drepung will come out of its "closet". DS practice in the monasteries will be revived and DS chapels in the monasteries will be reinstated.  I believe there are still many monks who practice DS secretly in these monasteries.

DS monasteries may or may not merge back into the traditional monasteries depending on how much they have grown.  If they have grown too big, merging would not not be administratively practical and it would make more sense to be independent as they already are.  Furthermore, the idea of merging again may not be appealing as the DS monasteries that has broken away as they may already have their own style of management which may conflict with the management style of traditional monasteries. 

Whether the monks in the traditional gelugpa monasteries who previously oppose DS practice take up the practice again depends on their motivation to opposed DS practice in the first place.  For the monks who oppose DS practice so that they are not expelled from the monasteries but still secretly practice DS, they will definitely take up the practice again.  For those who oppose DS just to be politically correct, it makes no difference to them.  They would just go with the flow to accept DS to be politically correctly just as they have when they oppose DS but they will not practise it.

[DharmaSpace]

Does anyone feel that the ban will be lifting soon? I get this feeling like I will soon be celebrating like how it was during the end of the movie 'Return of the Jedi'. I know this sounds funny .

Yes I do feel the ban might get lifted pretty soon, just my gut feel, what about the rest of you?   

[WisdomBeing]

Dharma Space, you're cute! What kind of gut feeling do you have? Based on what? I would love for the ban to be lifted soon, so that some of my mainstream Buddhist friends stop getting on my case about my being misguided on my choice of Protector!!

The only thing that may indicate that the ban could be lifted would be the passing of His Holiness, sad to say. He seems to be going on an incredibly busy globe trotting schedule like there's no tomorrow. Perhaps because there might not be a tomorrow. He hasn't mentioned much about Shugden (as far as I know, only once in July), so perhaps that is a good sign.

The taking over of Lobsang Sangay as Kalon Tripa and HHDL resigning as political head is also a good sign. However, i don't think Lobsang Sangay would dare to 'cross' a HHDL edict... so unless there is a specific instruction from HHDL, there will not be any political relaxation of this ban.

[iloveds]

I reckon all the major 3 monasteries have been quietly practising even though they outwardly say they are not. The environment is changing definitely can feel it.

Once the ban lifts, i think the only thing that will change is that the walls will come down between the monasteries.
Monks, nuns and Lamas will move freely between monasteries and countries without the meddling tibetan govt sticking their noses and fingers in their business.

Perhaps even a return to Tibet maybe possible?!?

[whitelion]

When the Ban lifts what will happen to monasteries like the Gaden, Sera and Drepung ?

Will the current monasteries who support Dorje Shugden be merged back into the traditional monasteries?

What will it do to the monks in the traditional Gelugpa monasteries who previously opposed the Dorej Shugden practise? Will they take it up again?

When the Ban lifts what will happen to monasteries like the Gaden, Sera and Drepung ?

Will the current monasteries who support Dorje Shugden be merged back into the traditional monasteries?

What will it do to the monks in the traditional Gelugpa monasteries who previously opposed the Dorej Shugden practise? Will they take it up again?

Agree with wisdombeing, although HHDL has step down from the political leader position, but don't think new Kalon Tripa will against HHDL's ban edict, I think the ban will still carry on if HHDL do not "release" DS from the ban.

I wish the ban to be lift up ASAP, because according to my friend the monks between Shar Gaden and Gaden are still meeting each others late at night at the back of both monastery and share news between each other. Some of them  are belong to the same teacher, came from the same hometown in Tibet, but due to the ban they have no other choice but separate. Even during Late Kensur Jampa Yeshe Rinpoche's funeral, some of the Shar Gaden monks will pass the offering to Gaden monks and offered to Kensur Rinpoche with Gaden monks' name, how sad is that, a monk can't even attend your own guru's wake nor fire puja.

Personally I think if TGIE lift up the ban, Shar Gaden and Serpom monastery will be adsorb back to their mother monastery, but become another school in under the same monastery name. Instead of Gaden Shartse and Jangtse, there will be Shar Gaden together under the name of Gaden Monastery ; instead of Sera Mey and Sera Jey, there will also add in Serpom under the name of Sera Monastery.

I'm sure a lot of the "legal" monks or lama are the still worship "illegal" DS in the legal monastery but if the ban on DS are clearer, they will be more than happy to be together than separate, it's just like the Berlin Wall in German. If the ban are lift up and I will be the first one to volunteer to tear down the stupid wall between Shartse and Shar Gaden.

[Barzin]

Yes, I agree with most what people posted here.  With the speed of how Dorje Shugden practice had spread, it is very unlikely that the monastery would regain or merge the same way it used to be.  Just like what Big Uncle said, I guess the individual monastery would quickly set up chapel for the protector.  But other parts of the world, there will be many Independent chapels and monastery all around.    Just like how Tibetan Buddhism has spread these days in different parts of the world.

The monastery will act as a mother monastery whereas many powerful dharma teachers will be going to different parts of the world to teach and spread dharma.  But personally i am very interested to see what's left in the monastery.  during the ban, do they burn and throw away protector's items? or they still keeping it secretly?  I would very much to be able to witness these holy items some day.  How it managed to preserve would be very valuable and precious.

[Manjushri]

If the ban lifts, I am sure many many many lamas, items, sacred statues and thangkas will come out of the closet. How can it be that a protector that was once so revered suddenly gone so low key just like that? Alot are in hiding, and when the ban is lifted, I feel as if there will be an explosion of Dorje Shugden everywhere.

I feel that countries like China will have Dorje Shugden's practice far and widespread across the country, Dorje shugden's practice will be done in alot of other countries and it will be bigger than before. Since Dorje Shugden is a protector of our time, his help will come in many ways, swift and fast, and it will benefit numerous individuals.

Regarding the monastery, I agree with @Big Uncle and Barzin. I feel that those who still cannot accept DS's practice will be okay, they will harmoniously live together with those who do, and not create any tension. And for those who have surpressed Ds' practice.. when the ban is lifted, I am sure that they will realise how compassionate HHDL is to have even started this controversy in the first place.

[DharmaSpace]

@Wisdombeing the Dalai Lama once mentioned this year about Dorje Shugden and he said it is up to the individual to decide, so I feel the tone has changed. Also for Lobsang Sangay to continue the ban how does it help his work to get back on the negotiation with China. Surely there are more pressing issues like autonomy for Tibet, having said that Lobsang Sangay has not mentioned thankfully so far Dorje Shugden is the stumbling block to the Tibet situation.

Lobsang Sangay enforcing the Dorje Shugden ban is as useless as a dog barking at the mountain it made no sense, and it did not improve or gave the former TGIE any bargaining chip or advantage in getting a better position for the Tibetan situation. If you look at the effect similar to the cause enforcing the ban does not create freedom for Tibetans, it simply wont happen. But if freedom is granted and the ban lifted who knows maybe it might create the correct cause for freedom or autonomy the Tibetans have been wishing for.

[kris]

I felt it really does not matter if they re-merge or not. Most important thing is continue to spread the Dharma teaching.

[beggar]

The ban being lifted may not be a literal declaration that the ban is now null and that Dorje Shugden practice is now allowed.

The practice could also be freed by the sheer numbers of practitioners growing in the world. It could be that the Dorje Shugden institutions spin off into their own distinct school / lineage which is of course still rooted in the teachings and lineage of Lama Tsongkhapa, since that is where they all arise from.

it could be that DS institutions become so widespread and huge, the practice becomes so far-reaching and global that the ban just dies off on its own because it becomes ineffectual. At the moment the only "control" that the tib govt have are over their own people within the Tibetan refugee communities in India / Nepal. They have absolutely no control over any other Buddhist practitioner anywhere in the world - actually, the ban doesn't exist anywhere else in the world; the practice of freedom of religion anywhere else in the world means that the practice can continue to grow everywhere else, so that it eventually completely overshadows the ban, which is being upheld only within a few communities.

I couldn't comment on what the existing monasteries and Dharma institutions within the tibetan refugee community would do though, such as Gaden, Sera, Drepung etc I daresay though, that if they were able to procure their own financial standing and welfare and stability within India, it would become very easy for them to open up to the practice again. The only thing really holding them back right now is pressure from the Tib. govt, on whom they remain quite dependent for many monetary and even political reasons (unfortunately).

[Gabby Potter]

I actually hope that may the monasteries merge and get back together again, they may not do so immediately but I hope that one day this will happen soon because to be frank, the monks are innocent.