Are you a coward if you go underground?

[fruven]

We can be very deceptive with our own desires and having our ways. In fact most of time we can say one thing but do another thing to protect our ego self, our desires. We promise one thing but not keeping it. We are betraying ourselves.

If we say we don't practice but did it anyway are we increasing our desires, our ego self? Why do some are so glad to give up a practice? Does it point to the lack of results from the practice? Does giving up instead serve a higher purpose for your own self?

The methods given by a guru to disciples will produce results to devoted and faithful disciples. If the disciples have gained compassion and wisdom from these methods, the results have spoken for themselves. Going underground and continuing the practicing and thus achieving the results as compared to stopping it doesn't mean you're a coward, it means you're going to achieve something no matter it is  public or private knowledge.

In a sense the wisdom is when we serve others we don't trumpet our actions, our methods, our religions or whatever. Therefore this goes back the main reason and motivation of practicing Dharma, and having a guru, and being a Buddhist.

[diamond girl]

The definition of coward from dictionary.com explains that coward is a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.

In light of this definition and also what I have read thus far here on this thread, and this website, the word coward is not the right word for this situation.

The practitioners of Dorje Shugden are patient, brave and loyal. Plus, for whatever reasons they may have, they are upholding their faith despite all the odds against them. Considering the violence which have taken place it would be smart to stay out of violence by going underground. If one loses one's life then how will they continue the practice?

At the same time I rejoice that monasteries like Serpom can practice openly... I truly rejoice.

Thus, there is really no right or wrong way. There is of course always a heavy-hearted feeling knowing the Ban still continues and I pray that all our efforts to spread DS practice here on this website will reach many many and the Ban be lifted before HHDL passes!

[Amitabha]

"The Dharma is about to be wiped out, and when the time for that comes, all the gods will weep tears. Rainy and dry seasons will be untimely, the Five Grains will not ripen, pestilential vapors will be prevalent; there will be many dead. The common people will toil in hardship, the public officials will be calculating and harsh; not compliant with the principles of the Way, all will have their hearts set on pleasure or disorder. Wicked men will steadily increase in number, to become like the sands of the sea; the good will be very scarce, no more than one or two."

"Great floods will suddenly occur; they will strike by surprise, unlooked-for. The people of the world will have no faith, and hence they will take the world to be permanent. Living creatures of every variety, with no distinction between gentry and the base, will be drowned and float away, dashed about, to be eaten by fish or turtles."

"At that time, there will be Bodhisattvas, Pratyeka-Buddhas, and Arhats; the gang of demons will drive them away, and they will not participate in the religious community. These three types of disciples will enter into the mountains, to a land of merit. Tranquil and self-controlled, they will rest content in this. Their lives will grow longer, the various gods will protect and watch over them, and Moon-Light [Bodhisattva] will appear in the world. They will be able to meet him, and together they will make my Way flourish."

[diablo1974]

i personally do not think its a coward act too. just keep this practice as a secret practice doesnt make you a coward at all. when the time ripens, many people will be able to do this practice openly and 'legally' all around the world. For the time being, DS practitioner keeps the practice close to heart and practice the perfection of patience.

[Ensapa]

Ultimately, whether or not someone goes underground or overground is not really any of our business. Any Lama that choses either path is not really our business either. Why? Because who are we to talk about and criticize high lamas? If we want to talk about how lamas who go underground are cowardly, then we are criticizing lamas who keep their practice to themselves, and these can be lamas with many high attainments and many years of study and practice and have benefitted  many people before them. To criticize that lamas who go openly with Dorje Shugden would also have the same implications. If we criticize another lama just because we do not like how they practice, then how are we different than the people who go against Dorje Shugden and criticize the Shugden lamas. so why should we go that way? Would it not be better to know our enemy and then be different from them? Wouldnt it be ironic and disastrous to end up like the very people who prosecuted and denied Dorje Shugden?

Therefore with this issue, the logical conclusion is to not criticize either sides.

[kris]

It is hard to say if a person is coward if he goes underground with Dorje Shugden practices. This situation is quite tricky and many things to take into consideration.

I really salute the practitioners who openly declare they are Dorje Shugden practitioners. They have to suffer a lot, including very basic necessities such as hospital, schools, etc. That said, I do not have any disrespect to practitioners who has gone underground.

I think for some, it may be better to go underground. I have also heard that there are some Lamas who would like to declare themselves as Dorje Shugden practitioners, but the protector specifically ask them not to do so YET because the timing is not correct...

[Ensapa]

I recall one of the Chinese sages once quoted
'If we are under duress it is permissible to use deception' 

Yes some lamas they have many teachers on the Dorje Shugden side and you also have received teaching for His Holiness the Dalai Lama so one is caught in between.
For some lamas, if they openly declare themselves as Dorje Shudgen practitioners, it would harm the minds of many students and thus, they have to go underground. For example, Lama Zopa is a very clear example of one such lama. They are doing this out of compassion.

Plus for the people who have to hide their practices they do need a greater sense of awareness and practice not to reveal their practices which is a great training in mindfullness. For people when they get their tantric empowerments they cannot simply reveal what practices they have and are doing also.
If we announce our practice to the world it can cause us to have pride, that only works for tantric practices but in the case of Dorje Shugden it is perhaps to promote unity and openness: united we are strong. Thus there are forums such as these to give us a voice to be united for the Dorje Shugden cause.

Live to fight another day, this kaliyuga age is it not exactly easy to for people to get the dharma, if what we can do with the practice and by also going underground can help people to benefit and to be saved, I would choose to go underground. There is no indignity to hide one's intentions if it is benevolent.
If going underground damages and confuses less people but makes it harder for me to do my practice, I would choose to go underground because ultimately  my reason for doing Dharma practice is to benefit others. Makes no sense to go loud and proud in a situation where it will confuse others i.e. when my lama is underground. It's a different story if my lama is open about it tho.

Thanks Dharmaspace for your opinions on this issue. I do agree that this issue has been dividing Dorje Shugden practitioners for a long time and if we can work this out we will be able to resolve our issues and be united for one cause: the lifting of the ban.

[Rihanna]

Cowardice is when you go along with a silly decision because you want to look good and no guts to speak your mind. That is being a coward. The cowards are those who blindly follow without investigating the truth and agree with the crowd.

What do you expect the Shugdenpas to do? Especially those who are within the radar of CTA? Be ostracised by their own community or break their samaya? Totally unfair either way. If you openly practice, you are condemned. If you give up your practice, you are condemned. Ridiculous. The best solution is to continue your practice quietly. You are definitely NOT a coward but acting with wisdom.

[Ensapa]

Cowardice is when you go along with a silly decision because you want to look good and no guts to speak your mind. That is being a coward. The cowards are those who blindly follow without investigating the truth and agree with the crowd.

What do you expect the Shugdenpas to do? Especially those who are within the radar of CTA? Be ostracised by their own community or break their samaya? Totally unfair either way. If you openly practice, you are condemned. If you give up your practice, you are condemned. Ridiculous. The best solution is to continue your practice quietly. You are definitely NOT a coward but acting with wisdom.

To me, cowardice is discarding your own values and taking on the values of others, such as abandoning Dorje Shugden for the sake of following the politically correct Dalai Lama. People who just follow the crowd to look good and they dont even know what are they doing at all, like what rihanna had said. Going underground is just going underground, the practice is not being done openly but from the shadows...and they're not discarding Dorje Shugden.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Real cowards hide because if they are found out, they have may be punished and the reason for their hiding is to cover some fault or agenda which benefits them.  Or they will not own up because they have done so much wrong to someone else.

Shugden worshippers hide not out of cowardice but to maintain harmony and create peace so that no more people especially Tibetans will suffer from discrimination.

They also hide because of respect for the Dalai Lama.  I think it is not cowardice but sure compassion and strong faith.

[grandmapele]

Reminds me of an old saying "judge not lest you be judged". It is very fine balancing act that the lamas have to toe. One the one hand, they do not wish to break samaya with their lama, but on the other they do not wish to openly defy the Dalai Lama. As wisdombeing said, they are caught between the rock and a hard place.

Even Jesus said to the crowd when they wanted to stone Mary Magdalene "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Have compassion for the practitioners who is trying to do right by the Buddhist path. Please Dalai Lama practice equanimity and lift the ban. Don't just let others practice religious freedom but not the Tibetans, don't let other be free but not the Tibetans.

[angelica]

I do not think that going underground is a coward act. Some DS practitioners and lamas need to go underground so that they can do their practice in peace and privately. If they publicly announce that they practice DS, their life might be in danger and they might be harm.

[ilikeshugden]

Dorje Shugden practitioners are not cowards for going underground. As tk says, it is easier to come out but you would not want to offend either type of teacher that you may be under. The best way to practice this completely harmless deity is to do so in secret until the ban is lifted, at which point, everyone can come out and practice openly. Alternatively, we could slowly start coming out, until the majority is converted and they would have no choice but to either unban or make practicing Shugden a whole new religion.

Politics should never be mixed with holy teachings. The teachings are and always will be pure. There is no reason to detract from this purity. To all, continue practicing regardless of what general consensus is. If you want to practice in secret. Fine! You are not a coward. If people are willing to forsake their gurus and their practice due to politics, those are unfortunately the true cowards as they allow secular reasons to intervene with their holy practices.

[Dondrup Shugden]

It had been noticed that once the Shugdenpas surface and declare their faith to Dorje Shugden, the response from so called Dalai Lama supporters is extremely violent in especially in the social media and OMG the whole world can see their discrimination not only among Tibetans but across of borders to other nationalities. 

What is most saddening to read is the profanity with which these anti Shugdenpas and pro Dalai Lama would condemn Shugdenpas.  Where is the compassion as taught by the Dalai Lama to his followers?

[christine V]

I don't think if i practice what i want and go underground is an act of coward. Why should i announce what i practice to the world? Can i change anything if i announce? Further, i thought in Vajrayana practice, we are not suppose to loudly tell people what are we practicing as an act of humble.