Dorje Shugden cartoon degrades Shakyamuni, Manjushri and Tsongkhapa?

[WoselTenzin]

Cartoon is just another medium to spread and promote DS.  I think all mediums to promote DS is valid because it appeals to people of disposition.  The objective here is to connect people to DS and any method that can achieve that objective has served its purpose. 

The cartoon is very well produced and is definitely very informative and entertaining. I am sure whoever that is behind it has put in a tremendous amount work, time and effort to get this cartoon out.  I thank these people for their compassion for doing this selflessly for the benefit of others.

I personally find the cartoon a useful tool to introduce DS to people who are new to it.  I don't see how it can degrade Shakyamuni, Manjushri, Tsongkhapa and Tibetan Buddhism.  Besides, if you know enough, you will know that from the side from Shakyamuni, Manjushri, Tsongkhapa and Tibetan Buddhism, they are not degradable.

Anyways, any type of work will have it's supporter and it's detractors.  We just have to take it that it's takes merit to recognise something good and beneficial.

[DharmaSpace]

Dorje Sugden is a buddha and as such seeing his form on whatever medium will plant seeds of enlightenment/Manjushri in people's minds. Such imprints can be dormant or can be activated depending on our collection of merits. Recently I was told most of the people nowadays the majority won't be able to practice the higher tantras like Vajrayogini or Yamantaka,so now its better to give most of them imprints of the three jewels so that they can carry such imprints within them life after life until a suitable time for these imprints to be activated. Such enlightenment imprints can stay on with us lifetime after lifetime until we become a fully enlightened being. 

[Ensapa]

I dont really see the cartoon as being degrading but it is a means to promote them.If the artwork does not suit your taste, it does not mean that it is degrading. The person who wrote this statement obviously resents Dorje Shugden and Gelugpa so much that they went to that level to criticize the animation. They are saying it out of spite and hate becusethey did not do anything like that to promote their teacher's works so instead of improving themselves, they choose to criticize.

I really applaud the team who is behind this, so much effort must have been taken to come up with something like this!

[dsiluvu]

NKT world=

hahahaha.... this is hillarious!!!

Okay if cartoons and comics are degrading to Buddha.... yes we might as well burn/ban all comics written about Buddhas! Why do we need to even entertained such rubbish comments. It is clear that these sort of comments stems from a emotional feeling of "jealousy" and perhaps narrow rigid uncreative mind sets... that basically has a market of its own but it is not the entire majority of the world people! And if we can encourage spiritual icons and practice in to our kids mind at a very your age... why not? And well you don't expect me to sit down and read the Lamrim with my 6 year old daughter do you... geeeezzz.... free your mind x

[Ensapa]

I actually really pity people who have so much hatred about others that they use such derogatory remarks against  what other people have produced. If they wanna criticize, then they should really have something at hand that is equally nice to show everyone instead of just criticizing from the internet with nothing to back themselves up. I wouldnt take such a comment seriously. After all, those words came from a website that is spreading hate, not Dharma.

[DharmaDefender]

SHUGDEN CARTOON GETS RAVE REVIEWS
A prequel for the announced movie about Shugden?
(taken from an anti-NKT site http://www.nktworld.org/cartoon.html)


The NKT support group that announced a few months ago that Shugden reincarnated a few decades ago just released a 29 minute cartoon of the story of Shugden. The group says that its Shugden cartoon cost $7,000 to produce.

Fans loved it.

"I am continuously amazed at the amount of effort, expenses, time and devotion you put towards the education of Dorje Shugden' practice."

"Incredible innovation – what an unique way to bring Dorje Shugden's blessed story out to the world. I'm sure many people relate to a visual form more than reading big old books. I think it would also be a nice learning tool (bedtime story?) for children to learn the history and story of such an incredible being. "

"Great idea to have it translated into Chinese. I really love this Illustrated Story with Narration! Have watched it again and again! I can easily share this with so many friends and their children!"

"Your team has done incredibly well IN SUCH A SHORT TIME ! I prostrate to you."

"Uuuuuummmazing! This illustration is the kind adaptation to our degenerate time."

"It's hardly been 10 days since this comic video's been uploaded to the site and there are already 1306 viewers!"

"Watching the illustrated story of Dorje Shugden brought tears to my eyes. Will there be a comic version?"

"Can't wait for the comic book."

"The comic book coming out does indeed sound very exciting."

Subtitled in Chinese, the cartoon reviews the Shugden story...Shugden and Tsongkhapa were both emanations of Manjushri, who emanated a thousand years earlier as a student of the "historical sage" Shakyamuni.

The cartoon continues...

One purpose of protectors, eg Shugden, is to bring us money.

Birwapa was the first recorded lineage master of the Shugden lineage. Famed for his miracles (like stopping the rotation of the earth for 3 days to get out of paying for his bar bill), he lived during the 9th century and was one of the legendary 84 masidhas of India.

A photograph of Shugden in his current life of 30+ years has not yet been released.

Lord Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen is the next key incarnated emanation. He was one of Tsongkhapa's 8 closest students (thus, according to the story, Manjushri had emanated as 2 human beings living at the same time, Tsonghkapa and Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen).

To Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen, the Tibetan protector Nechung appeared as a white dove who turned into a young boy, asking Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltson to protect Tsongkhapa's teachings because Nechung could not get around to this because his duty was to protect Buddhism generally and did not have the resources to protect Tsongkhapa's teachings.

Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen promised he would do so.

In his next life, Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen manifested as Panchen Sonam Drakpa (the 15th Ganden Tripa; notably later Ganden Tripas denounced Shugden), who wrote 11 volumes that serve today as the basis for Geshe training.

Panchen Sonam Drakpa returned as a young boy, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, whose birth shook the earth.

By 18, he had meditated in hundreds of Tibetan caves, in which he saw many Buddhas.

He had to keep moving from cave to cave because his fame spread like wildfire, often compared to the Great 5th Dalai Lama.

Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen spoke with Nechung, who reminded him of the promise his incarnate predecessor made to protect Tsongkhapa's teachings.

Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen did not remember such a promise until he ate rice blessed by Nechung, though told Nechung that he did not have the required anger in his mind stream.

Nechung gave him help, fanning whispers of discontent in students of the 5th Dalai Lama, leading them to fear Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen and their decision to kill him.

They tried poison. No effect. They tried stabbing him, only for eyes to form wherever he was stabbed.

Out of compassion and realizing what needed to be done, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen told them that there was only one way to kill him, by choking him.

And so they did, heading Norchung's help and Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's recommendation. (thus, if there is anyone to blame for his purported murder, it is Nechung and Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen according to the Shugden story)

Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen passed into his next emanation, Shugden (who would not reincarnate until a few hundred years later, a few decades ago, though he remains in hiding).

The Shugden story claims that the 5th Dalai Lama accepted Shugden as an emanation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, and the practice of Dorje Shugden then began.

According to the story, Shugden became a Sakya protector for 300 years (disputed by Sakyas, who generally fear Shugden; furthermore, whatever happened to the promise made by Shugden during at least 2 prior incarnations to protect Gelugpa Tsonkhapa's teachings?).

Hundreds of years after the passing of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, the Gelugpa Lama Tagphu Pemavagra arose. He was well known for traveling to many celestial places. Once, Tagphu Pemavagra went to Ganden heaven, the future paradise of the future Buddha Maitreya and saw Tsongkhapa and his 8 main desciples, one of whom was Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen (the story seems inconsistent here, because Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen was one of the 8 and predated Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen a couple hundred years).

To Tagphu Pemavagra the mandela of Dorje Shugden appeared and Tagphu Pemavagra received the teachings of the practice of Dorje Shugden from Dorje Shugden himself.

Tagphu Pemavagra returned and passed down the teachings to Pabongkha, who had a mediocre academic career and was often ridiculed for being dull. Everything changed when he met Tagphu Pemavagra.

To Pabongkha Heruka promised to help for 7 generations anyone who practiced Heruka's teachings.

Pabingkha became known as a living emanation of Heruka and composed prayers, teaching everyone in Tibet that Dorje Shugden wold become the protector of Gelugpas for years to come, advising that we must bring him to the world now and worship him.

Apparently, therefore, according to the Shugden story, the function of Shugden as a protector of the Gelugpa and his purported worship by the Gelugpa began about 100 years ago.

In 1949, because Pabongkha felt that he could not leave Tibet amidst its invasion by the Chinese army, forsaw that the Dorje Shugden lineage could be lost, and so passed the entire lineage to his student Trijang. (thus, if Trijang would have died during his escape from Tibet, Shugden worship would have died with him)

Trijang brought Dorje Shugden teachings from Tibet to India and wrote the definitive source of Dorje Shugden protector practice today - Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors.

Thousand of people thus receive Dorje Shugden teachings today (not millions as NKT has often claimed; notably, these thousands must largely be NKTites, who number in the thousands according to NKT).

A fascinating story indeed, appropriately served to us as a cartoon.

The upcoming movie, 'Dorje Shugden, Now on the Trail of a Buddhist Protector', whose producers are now seeking donations via credit card, may be even more fascinating.

Hearing from the living Shugden who reincarnated a few decades ago would be better, wouldn't it?

 
Editors Note:
We find nothing credible about this Shugden cartoon. It degrades Shakyamuni, Manjushri and Tsongkhapa as well as Tibetan Buddhism. The notion of making a comic book version is disgusting.

Marching against the current 75 year old Dalai Lama for this? Ridiculous. No wonder the Dalai Lama does not encourage Shugdenism.

I came across this thread because I Googled "Dorje Shugden comic" and well, I find the irony hilarious. I wonder what the authors would make about the Jataka Tales which, as I understand, are extremely popular in comic book form. The thing about comic books being disgusting is that the entire notion of disgust or disrespect is defined by man, and by personal preference. For example, a Tibetan might see a thangka as devotional but a Mid-Western American with no exposure to Asian art might see it as cartoonish.

So methinks these guys need to CTFO because I sense a case of sour grapes, that they didnt get what they wanted from NKT so now their lashing out. With so much anger, its no wonder they left NKT because no one could tolerate their lack of practice. And its no wonder they left NKT and their spiritual commitments because in general, their anger produces no results except a sad site that, in actuality, is an advert for how much they can complain. When Dorje Shugden takes his place as the worlds Protector and the CTA have to shut up, and Geshe-la is proved right after all these years, I wonder if their site is going to still remain on the Internet...

[tsangpakarpo]

Come on we are living in the 21st century now! How is this degrading? I would think of it as a skillful mean to bring Dorje Shugden's practice to others. NKT is THE largest organization which promotes the practice of Dorje Shugden. I am sure they got to where they are today because they knew very well what they were doing. So for anyone to put down their work I would say it is mere jealousy.

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso has worked tirelessly to bring the Buddhadharma to the world. Take a read this tribute to GKG here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/great-masters/tributes/a-tribute-to-geshe-kelsang-gyatso/

[dsiluvu]

SHUGDEN CARTOON GETS RAVE REVIEWS
A prequel for the announced movie about Shugden?
(taken from an anti-NKT site http://www.nktworld.org/cartoon.html)

Hearing from the living Shugden who reincarnated a few decades ago would be better, wouldn't it?

 
Editors Note:
We find nothing credible about this Shugden cartoon. It degrades Shakyamuni, Manjushri and Tsongkhapa as well as Tibetan Buddhism. The notion of making a comic book version is disgusting.

Marching against the current 75 year old Dalai Lama for this? Ridiculous. No wonder the Dalai Lama does not encourage Shugdenism.

I came across this thread because I Googled "Dorje Shugden comic" and well, I find the irony hilarious. I wonder what the authors would make about the Jataka Tales which, as I understand, are extremely popular in comic book form. The thing about comic books being disgusting is that the entire notion of disgust or disrespect is defined by man, and by personal preference. For example, a Tibetan might see a thangka as devotional but a Mid-Western American with no exposure to Asian art might see it as cartoonish.

So methinks these guys need to CTFO because I sense a case of sour grapes, that they didnt get what they wanted from NKT so now their lashing out. With so much anger, its no wonder they left NKT because no one could tolerate their lack of practice. And its no wonder they left NKT and their spiritual commitments because in general, their anger produces no results except a sad site that, in actuality, is an advert for how much they can complain. When Dorje Shugden takes his place as the worlds Protector and the CTA have to shut up, and Geshe-la is proved right after all these years, I wonder if their site is going to still remain on the Internet...

Isn't it just so fascinatingly fabulous that they actually took the time to actually watch the whole entire cartoon and well obvious arose jealousy from it unfortunately, but the fact that they themselves watched it the shows me they were attracted to it... it doesn't matter whether they in the end took it negativel or positively, the very fact that they watched tells me it must have been so disgustingly gooooooooooooooooood. Curiosity kills the cat hu?

Definitely a bunch cynicals who are bitter is what they sound like. Like Hello who gives you the authority to say whether or not you find it credible? WHo cares? And even if NKT managed to spread Dharma to a few thousands, it is better than them a few handfuls. I feel sorry for them as they created the cause through their narrow minded criticism to be more narrow, close minded that in the future anything good they will perceive as negative... what will their karmic repercussions be?  Born in a place where there is no Dharma?

It is ironic for them to say that  it degrades Shakyamuni, Manjushri and Tsongkhapa as well as Tibetan Buddhism because the actions that they are doing by putting other people's good works, teachers and centers down is in itself degrading already, and they have basicallu broken their own refuge vows of bad speech. With this kind of mindset no wonder their website is so popular, huge, so much activities, stories, education, information, updates, growth etc that is remains in "red" with a bunch of "red" emotions. Sorry no offense but they must be a bunch of very "unhappy" people who have lost their purpose... Om Mani Pedme Hum!   

[beggar]

I feel sorry for them as they created the cause through their narrow minded criticism to be more narrow, close minded that in the future anything good they will perceive as negative... what will their karmic repercussions be?  Born in a place where there is no Dharma?

It is ironic for them to say that  it degrades Shakyamuni, Manjushri and Tsongkhapa as well as Tibetan Buddhism because the actions that they are doing by putting other people's good works, teachers and centers down is in itself degrading already, and they have basicallu broken their own refuge vows of bad speech. With this kind of mindset no wonder their website is so popular, huge, so much activities, stories, education, information, updates, growth etc that is remains in "red" with a bunch of "red" emotions. Sorry no offense but they must be a bunch of very "unhappy" people who have lost their purpose... Om Mani Pedme Hum!

Unhappy is right! And also, what a sad portrayal and reflection they give of their own practice - is this how Buddhists speak of each other? We don't even speak this way about people of other religions, aetheists or satanists, because we understand that they have the right to choose their own practice. To simply name-call something as "ridiculous" and degrading without any proper explanation, backed by fact and teaching, is ridiculous in itself and not befitting of a Buddhist at all.

I find it amusing that so many march around being righteous and trying to uphold the "credibility" and "purity" of their religion by putting down the religion and practices of others. That in itself speaks volumes about criticiser's own religion and practice and reflects badly upon his teachers and what he is learning. Surely no real teacher encourages us to speak like this about anyone, no matter how "harmful" their works are and how much we disagree with them. Surely, no Buddhist teaching advocates putting anyone down. We know well enough that the mind transformation teachings advise us that in fact, we should be even kinder, gentler, more patient with the people we find difficult so we can help them back onto a "right" path.

So okay, fine. Let's say someone really doesn't agree with the cartoon. That's fine. And everyone is entitled to their opinions about this. If you have something valid and logical to say about why you disagree with the use of a cartoon as a medium, then express it clearly and objectively. Sarcasm and degrading tones aren't necessary nor helpful. It simply means that the person receiving your comments (either listening or reading to them) will be put off by the cartoon (or whatever it is that's being criticised) and will also be put off by you who show a bad example of the religion you're trying to uphold and preserve.

[Ensapa]

Unhappy is right! And also, what a sad portrayal and reflection they give of their own practice - is this how Buddhists speak of each other? We don't even speak this way about people of other religions, aetheists or satanists, because we understand that they have the right to choose their own practice. To simply name-call something as "ridiculous" and degrading without any proper explanation, backed by fact and teaching, is ridiculous in itself and not befitting of a Buddhist at all.

I find it amusing that so many march around being righteous and trying to uphold the "credibility" and "purity" of their religion by putting down the religion and practices of others. That in itself speaks volumes about criticiser's own religion and practice and reflects badly upon his teachers and what he is learning. Surely no real teacher encourages us to speak like this about anyone, no matter how "harmful" their works are and how much we disagree with them. Surely, no Buddhist teaching advocates putting anyone down. We know well enough that the mind transformation teachings advise us that in fact, we should be even kinder, gentler, more patient with the people we find difficult so we can help them back onto a "right" path.

So okay, fine. Let's say someone really doesn't agree with the cartoon. That's fine. And everyone is entitled to their opinions about this. If you have something valid and logical to say about why you disagree with the use of a cartoon as a medium, then express it clearly and objectively. Sarcasm and degrading tones aren't necessary nor helpful. It simply means that the person receiving your comments (either listening or reading to them) will be put off by the cartoon (or whatever it is that's being criticised) and will also be put off by you who show a bad example of the religion you're trying to uphold and preserve.

You know what is the saddest thing here of everything? it is that this group of people expresses anger and hatred in the name of Buddhism and the purity of the Dharma. Maybe perhaps some of them have been hurt by NKT before (which happens...we cant expect every single Dharma center in the world to be filled with dakas and dakinis) and they do not know how to deal with it except vent it out and feed their anger and resentment (what happened to all the Dharma they learnt?) They are using the Dharma to express their anger and how can that be a good thing? Buddhism aint perfect in every way, but to use it as a platform to express hate and criticize every single small mistake that Buddhism has and ignore the benefits it brings is just sad to focus on the negativities as they will only reap negative results from this.

[Positive Change]

Gosh... the way they criticize is baseless and ridiculous. And what is worse, they are creating negative karma in putting down sincere and meritorious works of others in spreading Dharma.

Why can't people accept each other's differences as no one person is the same. Is this not a Buddhist practice? So I say to those who 'condemn', best to practice what you preach, look within yourself first before judging others.

If everyone had that understanding and compassion, the world would be such a different place. No wonder we need Dorje Shugden soooo much. Even fellow practitioners are condemning each other! Truly a degenerated time we live in...

[Ganden_follower]

I for one am very thankful for the "non-traditional" ways of spreading the truth about Dorje Shugden. I remember the first time I decided to investigate the truth about DS for myself instead of believing whatever was told to me by others, and came across the comic online here at this website. Sure, it isn't the most "academic" source of information, but it piqued my curiosity enough to read and learn even more and even eventually to begin relying on him as my Dharma Protector. So I don't think it's degrading at all! 

What is degrading, though, is how monks and other practitioners are kicked out of their monasteries/dharma centers and treated as pariahs simply for following the instructions of their root and lineage gurus.

[Ensapa]

I think the website is blinded by hate. That is a website that focuses on NKT and is probably made up by disgruntled ex NKT members. There's a bunch of things there that isnt really beneficial for anyone to read, and in their hatred they kind of targeted the people who made the cartoon by mistaking that it was done by NKT too when it is not. The site is pro Dalai Lama, but interestingly and oddly, they dont practice compassion towards NKT people. It does however, air a lot of NKT's dirty laundry on the net which is not good as it can mislead people. Why yank people off their spiritual path? If you yank people away from their spiritual path for whatever reason, how will they grow spiritually? Just because it didint work out for  you, dosent mean it wont work out for someone else.

[Big Uncle]

I think the website is blinded by hate. That is a website that focuses on NKT and is probably made up by disgruntled ex NKT members. There's a bunch of things there that isnt really beneficial for anyone to read, and in their hatred they kind of targeted the people who made the cartoon by mistaking that it was done by NKT too when it is not. The site is pro Dalai Lama, but interestingly and oddly, they dont practice compassion towards NKT people. It does however, air a lot of NKT's dirty laundry on the net which is not good as it can mislead people. Why yank people off their spiritual path? If you yank people away from their spiritual path for whatever reason, how will they grow spiritually? Just because it didint work out for  you, dosent mean it wont work out for someone else.

Well, that's their negative karma and their personal vendetta against NKT. However, they have failed to realize that the cartoon was not produced by NKT. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter because their animosity cannot do much harm against Geshe Kelsang Gyatso or any of his sincere monks and teachers of his organisation because they are growing and they are benefitting a lot of people by enriching their lives with Dharma practice.

With regards to the cartoon, I am actually amused that they would say so much and I personally think in that way, they are promoting the comic although they had no intention of doing so. I am not sure about the readership of that site but I am sure there's an audience nonetheless and that this posting would have compelled them to listen and read up on the cartoon and they would have gained a blessing and an insight into Dorje Shugden and his previous lives. I think it is a brilliant way to plant Dharma seeds and to educate people about Dorje Shugden. I guess that's why I posted this thread in the first place and so they are kind of helping us to further our cause instead.

[Ensapa]

Well, that's their negative karma and their personal vendetta against NKT. However, they have failed to realize that the cartoon was not produced by NKT. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter because their animosity cannot do much harm against Geshe Kelsang Gyatso or any of his sincere monks and teachers of his organisation because they are growing and they are benefitting a lot of people by enriching their lives with Dharma practice.

With regards to the cartoon, I am actually amused that they would say so much and I personally think in that way, they are promoting the comic although they had no intention of doing so. I am not sure about the readership of that site but I am sure there's an audience nonetheless and that this posting would have compelled them to listen and read up on the cartoon and they would have gained a blessing and an insight into Dorje Shugden and his previous lives. I think it is a brilliant way to plant Dharma seeds and to educate people about Dorje Shugden. I guess that's why I posted this thread in the first place and so they are kind of helping us to further our cause instead.

You're right. Come to think of it, there is very little that website can do to damage NKT's reputation. There was a website dedicated to defaming Dorje Shugden a while ago and now it is gone. There is also another one who was dedicated to defaming Geshe Michael Roach and that website has been taken down also. This goes to show that hate websites do not work and they are not Buddhist even to start with. While some others may see it as a noble act (especially the people who started them) to warn people of cults, that is very far from the truth. It would be wiser to post guidelines rather than defaming the organization and allow people to choose for themselves and rationalize it out.

But what is interesting is, the website also has a document (http://www.nktworld.org/NKTattacklist.pdf) produced by the NKT that highlights the damage that Dalai Lama followers have done to their members. Some of these members upon being told that Dorje Shugden is evil actually had mental conditions which worsened after that. It also shows that the anti Dorje Shugden people have little or no regard for others when championing their own cause. They didint pay the bills of an individual who developed recurring nightmares and phobias due to this.