ANOTHER HIGH LAMA SPEAKS UP AGAINST SHUGDEN BAN!!!!

[DharmaSpace]

If Naropa had asked Tilopa why must I jump, I think we wouldn't even know who Naropa  is, and he wont have become one of the greatest masters of Buddhism.

I mean why should I jump from a cliff, its pure madness, its definitely crazier than enforcing a ban.

[Heartspoon]

And if Naropa had asked Tilopa to fight and destroy other Buddhists, to create schisms and to spray wrong views,
would he have agreed without thinking ?

[whitelion]

It's such a great and brave move. I'm really respect Kensur Rinpoche, he will not care about what pressure or difficulty he might be facing in the future after his announcement, he will still do it. A live example is telling us nothing is wrong with Dorje Shugden practice, because his guru will not passed him something is not right, as simple as that. If his guru was wrong, that means he's wrong too, so all his students who graduated from both Gaden Jangtse and Gyumed Tantric school are wrong too. I'm sure all high Lama such as Kensur Rinpoche or Samdhong Rinpoche must have a bigger picture by "stay in the closet" behind this.

I'm just making a guess here. If both HHDL and Samdhong RInpoche actually are hand in hand create another scene for us, and by doing this "scene" actually more peoples will be benefited,

Scene : If Samdhong Rinpoche's guru is Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, and he was officailly recognized by the monastery system, we shall never doubt about his attainment, same goes to HHDL. If both Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and HHDL are sharing a same thought with their clairvoyance, all this chaos we are experiencing could be all premeditated . Let's us think carefully, if without this controversy will a lot of people know about Dorje Shugden ? It's just like if HHDL didn't exile to the west, how many of us will know about Tibetan Buddhism? How many of us will know about TIbet ?

From my understanding Samdhong RInpoche holds very strong guru devotion towards HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, he will never goes against his guru mind. He might already premeditated everything before his said or to do something harsh to the public, because by doing such actions might bring more people's curiosity to check out what is this "Dorje Shugden" all about. By viewing, hearing, speaking or even googles any images of an enlighten being, Dharma imprint is planted, and some imprints can be open, so eventually more beneficial. The more chaos it is, more people will actually got benefited in that case.

[wang]

Isn't it 'Khensur Rinpoche Sonam Gyaltsen' be the same person as mentioned by tk early this year here on 'Gongpo Khamtsen Geshe Chatee'?:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0

If so Rinpoche has been expelled from Gaden Jangtze?

[DharmaSpace]

@heartspoon, Destroying one's body is very serious also, you are destroying the very vessel for you to be enlightened.

Well if Buddha could kill the ship captain out of compassion and it benefits the being being killed. Spreading rumours  and persecuting others but your motivation is to serve your lama and benefit a bigger picture why not? 

By the way the freesangha forum there is a posting about Samdhong Rinpoche doing Dorje Shugden practise again. Just visualise Samdhong Rinpoche having embraced Dorje Shugden again and standing in front of you, what will you say to him?

Look at it in this way the ban has made Dorje Shugden grown so much more all over the world, the people who carried on practising they got stronger, more resourceful can attend to more difficulties, it made their practise stronger in the end. You don't find the high lamas from Shar Gaden or Serpom complaining about how difficult a journey it has been to still rely on Dorje Shugden on this forum do you? They are out there teaching, sharing, doing dharma 200%. Was the ban beneficial to the Gelugpa tradition, it seems like that from where I am standing.

[Mana]

What a great person!

[Heartspoon]

Spreading rumours  and persecuting others but your motivation is to serve your lama and benefit a bigger picture why not? 

Because one should adopt "purposeful behavior and concordant behavior".
Purposeful behavior is to cause others to practice what is beneficial.
Concordant behavior is for one to practice what one teaches others.

[Heartspoon]

Just visualise Samdhong Rinpoche having embraced Dorje Shugden again and standing in front of you, what will you say to him?

I cannot accept those who spread wrong views
and by this lead many living beings astray.

[Heartspoon]

@heartspoon, Destroying one's body is very serious also, you are destroying the very vessel for you to be enlightened.

No, destroying the very vessel for you to be enlightened is done this way:

"One who despises another Buddhist school despises the Buddha. He impairs the transmission of the Dharma. The presence of the Dharma is jeopardized by such an attitude, and one becomes cut off from its transmission. This is so because one's refuge vows are based upon reliance on the Enlightened One, His Teachings, and the Holy Community. If one rejects Dharma one breaks one's refuge vow and thereby becomes cut off from the Dharma. By rejecting this Dharma that is the only door to happiness for beings and oneself, one accumulates inexhaustible sin."

And this is precisely what makes me speaking up...

[thaimonk]

Just visualise Samdhong Rinpoche having embraced Dorje Shugden again and standing in front of you, what will you say to him?

I cannot accept those who spread wrong views
and by this lead many living beings astray.

Dear HS,

Your passionate and have alot of quotes and explanations as to the wrongful act of the ban. There's all the addresses (Important Addresses thread) available on the forum for you to email to. It would be so good if the hundreds can hear what you have to say. Hopefully it plants a imprint for them later on.

Most important is to check one's own attainments and it does not remain as learning. The best way to lead others to the correct path is forgiveness and skilfully teaching them otherwise. All those who are learning ('going astray') the wrong information have so much resources here to learn from and of course elsewhere. We should direct them here.

Simpletons like us follow the lama and we practice the best we can and plug on. We don't have the learning and attainments to do much more for now. But I am sincere. I will learn and do more.

Thaimonk

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Heartspoon,

That's a good and constructive suggestion from Thaimonk. As well as participating in the forum, write in to the many addresses collated conveniently for us. If you are going to follow Thaimonk's suggestion, perhaps you can even post the draft email you are sending so those people who agree with your standpoint but may not be eloquent can also send the emails out. Do direct them to come to this website as there really are so much resources patiently posted over the years by the hardworking admin staff. I do believe this is the most comprehensive site on Dorje Shugden - with news from both sides of the controversy, and what i enjoy most is this most active forum. Every time I log in, there's a new post!

[happysun]

No matter who practice, who not practice, who lost or who win doesn't matter, at least Dharma can plant a seed to who or just pass by before. I think everyone high Lama have same quality, everything they do just to benefit all sentient beings.


 

[pgdharma]

It is inspiring to know that this illustrious master  H.E. Gyurme Kensur Rinpoche Sonam Gyaltsen who resides in France  has  spoken openly against  the Dorje Shugden ban. This  showed H.E remained steadfast with his Guru. He has strong Guru  Devotion and does not go against his Guru. He is so open as to write, "Where did you get your Sutra and Tantra lineage from? Maybe you dug it out from the ground?. He does not care about the risks and implications.

If such a great master has  the courage to speak up so openly, it showed us that Dorje Shugden is not a spirit but an enlightened and uncommon protector.

[dsiluvu]

After reading the open letter of Kensur Sonam, I rejoice for it is another high Lama bravely and openly telling us to follow our Guru's teachings and instructions = Guru Devotion.

Samdong Rinpoche's open speech on his duty was to follow his root guru's heart advice - serve HH whole heartedly, (which to me means follow the Dalai Lama's requests/instructions right or wrong) is also following the Guru's instructions = Guru Devotion.

I find they are both not contradictory but rather of the same goal = following one's guru's instructions. Although it may appear that Samdong Rinpoche has done something very negative, but if analyse he is just following his root Guru's advice to a tee, even if it meant creating much dispare, confusion and pain for that moment. I am certain that Trijang Rinpoche would have otherwise stop Samdong Rinpoche. But instead the advice was to simply serve the Dalai Lama in every way...

I am not confused, though I can understand how others especially those who suffered the ban. Perhaps in their hearts they could find room to forgive for we do not always know the big reasons for all these confusion and chaos but surely they did not become highly attained lama's out of selfish agendas and to purposely harm others. Otherwise all great Buddhist masters, our gurus are all questionable and we will continuously be doubtful.

I do think these great masters are altruistic and if they are purposely destroying people's faith and Tsongkhapa's lineage, then why have Dorje Shugden himself allowed it? DS could easily via an oracle, let us know and to stop all this mess... but instead we have all been advice to take neither sides, to remain patient and steadfast in our practice and follow our Guru's advice... that would be clearest = Guru Devotion.

[DharmaSpace]

With the Dorje Shugden practise I have learnt to observe the great lamas, for example Venerable Gonsar did not complain much about Dalai Lama he went about building his people and also now has built a marvellous monastery at Lumbini. His Eminence the Gangchen Lama has spread dorje shugden far and wide and now to China too.

These two lamas are exemplary they work to grow Dorje Shugden and their lineage, not target previous TGIE members or others who have persecuted Dorje Shugden practitioners before, or keep criticising the Dalai Lama.  There is no point to target or criticise or persecute might as well grow one's practise and share more and do more in a positive manner. This is what I have observed.

The spreading of Dorje Shugden among the Thai's is another step in the right direction , spreading and growing instead of criticising or other related type of actions. May Dorje Shugden spread all over South East Asia and also to China.