Private Monastery of Dalai Lama practiced Shugden

[LosangKhyentse]

On page 133 of His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's autobiography it says:

"For maintenance of spiritual and temporal affairs, I went for three weeks to join the Namgyal Dratsang monks in doing kangso, exhortation, and mantra recitation of Palden Lhamo, the Twelve Tanma, Pehar's Five Families, and Shugden."

This was in the mid 1960's when Namgyal Monastery was still openly doing the practice of Dorje Shugden along with their other Dharma protector practices. A tradition brought from the original Namgyal Monastery in Tibet. This is very interesting. The private Monastery of HH the Dalai Lama was doing the practice of Shugden. How can the all knowing Dalai Lama be wrong and suddenly find out Shugden is harmful. It does not make sense at all. If we go along this line of argument, then the Dalai Lama can make mistakes. If he can make mistakes, it goes both ways. Which means his research on Shugden and conclusion of Shugden being harmful can be 'wrong' also. Why put this Protector Shugden practice in Namygal Monastery in the first place and then find out it's a mistake and remove it later. That would mean Dalai Lama CAN make mistakes? Dalai Lama is believed to be without mistakes. Then who is to say which lama is right or wrong? If Dalai Lama can be wrong then the ban is wrong. And he can retract his statements. Unless there's a bigger picture involved. Unless Dalai Lama is purposely making Dorje Shugden bigger and bigger. Otherwise silence would be the best move at the moment if Dalai Lama wishes to minimize Shugden's practice. Otherwise talking about it always will only make the practice bigger. 
TK

Notes:

1. Namgyal Dratsang or Namgyal Monastery is the private Monastery of HH the Dalai Lama located in Dharamsala, North India. Dratsang is Monastery or gathering of sangha.

2. Kangso are the long pujas to any dharma protector. In this case Palden Hlamo Kangso, Twelve Tanma kangso, Pehar kangso and Shugden kangso.

3. Twelve Tanma are the twelve sister mountain indigenous goddesses of Tibet that was sworn to protect dharma  by Guru Rinpoche.

4. Pehar's five families is referring to Trinley Gyelpo, Pehar Gyelpo (tuki gyelpo), Sungi Gyelpo, Kuyi Gyelpo, and Yonten Gyelpo. These are the five families of what we commonly called Nechung protector. Nechung is actually the spirit minister of these 5 Pehar families. The state oracle Nechung takes trance of Nechung the Minister.

5. Shugden here refers to of course the exalted King of Dharma, Gyelchen Dorje Shugden.

Below pictures:

12 Tenma Goddesses
Pehar's 5 Families
Palden Hlamo

[Barzin]

Why put this Protector Shugden practice in Namygal Monastery in the first place and then find out it's a mistake and remove it later. That would mean Dalai Lama CAN make mistakes? Dalai Lama is believed to be without mistakes. Then who is to say which lama is right or wrong? If Dalai Lama can be wrong then the ban is wrong.

It reminds me very much like a marketing strategy that most celebrity of today uses.  When we hear gossips about certain celebrity, we all want to find out what and why.  Interesting, just like the Rihanna and Chris Brown case; even you are not interested you will want to see who Chris Brown is and how badly injured Rihanna is. 

What a skillful method to suit today's society.  No doubt in His Holiness, by doing that, people want to read more and find out more about the controversial.  Imagine how many was planted the seed of dharma even by just looking at Buddha Dorje Shugden images?  Wonderful!

Like what TK posted, of His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche says...;  Namgyal Monastery was doing the practice of Dorje Shugden all along.  Wow, 50 years later he became a spirit?  It just made my faith stronger and respect HHDL more, 50 years of promoting the protector of today tirelessly just to benefit people and bring dharma to the world.  And he manifest flaws just to benefit sentient beings.  That is pure compassion.

[WoselTenzin]

This was in the mid 1960's when Namgyal Monastery was still openly doing the practice of Dorje Shugden along with their other Dharma protector practices. A tradition brought from the original Namgyal Monastery in Tibet. This is very interesting. The private Monastery of HH the Dalai Lama was doing the practice of Shugden. How can the all knowing Dalai Lama be wrong and suddenly find out Shugden is harmful. It does not make sense at all. If we go along this line of argument, then the Dalai Lama can make mistakes. If he can make mistakes, it goes both ways. Which means his research on Shugden and conclusion of Shugden being harmful can be 'wrong' also.

This is a historical fact and its inconsistency with the current state of affairs seem to make me question if all that is happening on the DS ban is really what it seems to be at face value.  With all these additional info, the mystery to the DS controversy is slowly unfolding itself.  After all, the most unlikely event of the ex-Kalon Tripa Samdhong Rinpoche's confession of having never gave up his DS practice after serving the DL for so many years has already occurred, what else can be next is left to be seen. All questions will be answered in a matter of time..... 

[WisdomBeing]

Barzin, you crack me up! The last thing i expect to see on a Dorje Shugden forum is Chris Brown and Rihanna! It just goes to show that i should always expect the unexpected!

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, this is just another piece of the puzzle. Why would the Dalai Lama propitiate Shugden? It must have been beneficial (at least beneficial enough for the Dalai Lama to trust Shugden when he escaped from Tibet!)

As WoselTenzin says, all questions will be answered. (by the way Wosel - is the rumour about Samdhong Rinpoche being a DS practitioner confirmed?)

[whitelion]

The DS lineage started from the 5th Dalai Lama time, and the fifth Dalai Lama composed a praise for DS which have been practice throughout 2 main sects of Vajrayana Buddhism for hundreds of years. How come none of the high lama, pandita or Geshe find any problem with it ?

I could say minimum 70% of shangha in two Gelug main collage, Ganden and Sera, practiced Dorje Shugden before the ban, and all the scholars from both schools never say anything bad regarding this practice. This is a clear sign that either they are not real scholar or that's nothing wrong with this practice, of course I would believe that's nothing wrong with this holy practice.

Simply because if Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, the three main teacher of Gelug have been practice for their life, I have no doubt this is real. If we believe or study the latest edited Lamrim by Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, how can the other practice that he practiced for life could be wrong ?

All these sign are very clear that this is a pure and holy lineage practice, and it's very suitable for our time.

[beggar]

There are contradictions like this throughout history. We believe that Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara who is a fully enlightened Being. So how can a Buddha be so fickle? How can he be right about a practice at one moment and then "suddenly" realise that he has made a mistake. Is this possible?

The Dalai Lama, across different incarnations from the 5th until the present 14th, has seemed to change his mind about Dorje Shugden's practice. But at the same time, the Dalai Lama is considered to be an enlightened being who has control over his rebirth and whose mindstream carries from one lifetime to the next. It may be different incarnations but the mind is still the same. How can an enlightened mind like this keep fluctuating back and forth?

And lastly, if DS really was just a bad, evil spirit, then why doesn't the Dalai Lama (who is a fully enlightened being) just tame him or destroy him? The people who worship the Dalai Lama as Avalokiteshvara are the same people who support the claim that DS is a spirit and will harm his life. That is a huge contradiction! That is saying that a spirit is more powerful and has more control over the Dalai Lama's life than the Dalai Lama himself. That's saying that a spirit is more powerful than a Buddha - it totally defies all logic and Dharma.

[thor]

Dorje Shugden is a spirit so others cannot worship him, pray to him, or invoke him.
Nechung is a spirit, but we can worship him, we can pray to him, we can invoke him. We can even build entire chapels for him!

Either Dalai Lama is illogical, Dalai Lama has double standards, or there is something else going on here and like many Dorje Shugden practitioners say, Dorje Shugden is indeed an enlightened Dharma protector.

 

[DharmaDefender]

Dorje Shugden is a spirit so others cannot worship him, pray to him, or invoke him.
Nechung is a spirit, but we can worship him, we can pray to him, we can invoke him. We can even build entire chapels for him!

And I could have sworn Padmasambhava was from another tradition... whys the Dalai Lama relying on a spirit subdued by a lama from another tradition? And I forget - is the Dalai Lama being accused of sectarianism, or non-sectarianism? (all of these big words!!) But hes appearing to put down practices from his own tradition, and supporting practices from other traditions.

And yeah yeah His Holiness is a lineage holder of many traditions, but seriously - its okay for him to mix and match his practices, but not okay for everyone else? Its okay for his teacher HH Kyabje Trichang Dorje Chang to practise Dorje Shugden, but not okay for anyone else? How comes its okay for the person you love the most, your guru, to practise spirit practice but its not okay for anyone else?

Far too many inconsistencies, somethings not adding up... and leaders dont come stupid. Even if you dont want to see the Dalai Lama as Chenrezig on earth, then even as a secular leader... no one could be blind to so many inconsistencies, unless they were doing it on purpose.

One things for sure, you cant be sure of anything other than to rely on our spiritual guide. Ashavagosha had the right idea, methinks... I tell you, its far less confusing!

[Mana]

One day within our lifetime, people will understand the true nature of Dorje Shugden and the benefits of this practice. This forum, this website and all the participants within makes the CTA and their supporters very uncomfortable. What they have propagated are not true. The untruths/lies are catching up. All the pain, divisions and problems they have created worldwide will catch up with them karmically. They will experience what they have created unfortunately.

We must with steadfast conviction continue our practice of Shugden and the benefits of this practice have and will continue to bear results. Shugden is unfailing. What we pray to Shugden will be fulfilled. The great Shugden can see the problems, intrigue, and difficulties his practitioners must temporarily experience based on false accusations for the time being and it does not fall on deaf ears. We must continue our participation of propagating Shugden and our practice of course. And show the world the virtues of Shugden and the anti-false Shugden information will have less and less power. The day for CTA to regret their false ban against Shugden will arrive and it is not far off.

The CTA has made so many mistakes as in losing their country, gaining no independence, no autonomy, no leeway with the Chinese govt which shows their inability to govern. They should be totally embarrassed to be a government at all. Now they are CTA-downgraded. They are not even called a govt any longer which speaks volumes. Their false accusations against Shugden are not silencing the Shugden majority. It will never silence us. We will grow bigger and stronger.

Shugden will definitely prevail.

Mana

[dsiluvu]

One day within our lifetime, people will understand the true nature of Dorje Shugden and the benefits of this practice. This forum, this website and all the participants within makes the CTA and their supporters very uncomfortable. What they have propagated are not true. The untruths/lies are catching up. All the pain, divisions and problems they have created worldwide will catch up with them karmically. They will experience what they have created unfortunately.

The CTA has made so many mistakes as in losing their country, gaining no independence, no autonomy, no leeway with the Chinese govt which shows their inability to govern. They should be totally embarrassed to be a government at all. Now they are CTA-downgraded. They are not even called a govt any longer which speaks volumes. Their false accusations against Shugden are not silencing the Shugden majority. It will never silence us. We will grow bigger and stronger.

Shugden will definitely prevail.

Why should they feel uncomfortable if they (CTA) were telling the truth? Must be because it is not?!

Actually we should indirectly Thank the Dalai Lama and the CTA. Without the ban, Dorje Shugden practice would not be growing as fast, Shugden monasteries would not be popping up left, right and center. We will not be working so hard promoting Dorje Shugden, creating books, articles, educating, websites, news, youtube, fb, high lamas like ex Gaden Trisur moving to Shar Gaden etc etc. All this would not be happening if it wasn't for the Ban. Boy have they barked down the wrong tree

Surely they must know by now, that their plan has back fired and instead creating the results they were hoping, the opposite is happening. Because truth will always prevail eventually....

So in a way Thank you to  HH Dalai Lama and CTA for giving Shugden practitioners a huge drive, great purpose and all the more reasons to spread Dorje Shugden globally

We would have been so bored without you provoking us to wake up
     

[DharmaSpace]

Yes the ban is definitely a blessing and the dorje shugden practitioners needed to work so hard and brave so much difficulties to maintain the practises. The Dalai Lama's actions were a real blessing for all of us, if not for the Dalai Lama we would not strive so hard doing our practise.

Dorje Shugden practitioners will come up stronger ever than before!

[shugdenpromoter]

There are contradictions like this throughout history. We believe that Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara who is a fully enlightened Being. So how can a Buddha be so fickle? How can he be right about a practice at one moment and then "suddenly" realise that he has made a mistake. Is this possible?

The Dalai Lama, across different incarnations from the 5th until the present 14th, has seemed to change his mind about Dorje Shugden's practice. But at the same time, the Dalai Lama is considered to be an enlightened being who has control over his rebirth and whose mindstream carries from one lifetime to the next. It may be different incarnations but the mind is still the same. How can an enlightened mind like this keep fluctuating back and forth?

And lastly, if DS really was just a bad, evil spirit, then why doesn't the Dalai Lama (who is a fully enlightened being) just tame him or destroy him? The people who worship the Dalai Lama as Avalokiteshvara are the same people who support the claim that DS is a spirit and will harm his life. That is a huge contradiction! That is saying that a spirit is more powerful and has more control over the Dalai Lama's life than the Dalai Lama himself. That's saying that a spirit is more powerful than a Buddha - it totally defies all logic and Dharma.

I heard from an old monk before that when this ban was announced, a lot of the monks in Gaden Shartse were confused and ask the protector what to do? The protector told all of them that in the future, all those who criticize DS , will apologies when the time comes.

I believe very much that HH knows what he is doing to create and in fact HH and Shugden are working in tandem with relation in the growth of dharma. Come to think of, would u rather benefit the existing 3 million Tibetan or 3 BILLION people around the world. Precisely, this is what the controversy has positively impacted.

[DharmaSpace]

Yes there was no point for the monks who wanted to carry on their devotion towards Dorje Shugden to fight against the monks that do not want to practise Dorje Shugden anymore. It was probably the best move to have come up with Shar Gaden and Serpom. when the ban lifts I do hope there will be reconciliation though.

Even the Karmapa said one day all of us will have to propitiate dorje Shugden.