The Spiritworld or The Unseen

[iloveds]

Though I do not claim to see the unseen, the thought stuck out.

There are countless beings dying everyday, yet not as many as those who are being reborn.

These beings maybe stuck in the intermediary for a very long time.
Hence the population of living / seen, and the unseen is hugely disproportionate.

We are the minority, yet many do not believe this to be the case.

Some food for thought.

[DharmaDefender]

I didnt grow up with this tradition of spirits but the way I see it, if Dorje Shugden / God / Allah / Jesus can exist and I cant see them, why cant other unseen beings exist...? Theyre only unseen relative to me; theyre not unseen relative to other people.

[Mana]

In many sutras it is mentioned that during Buddha's Dharma talk, there were many non-human beings attending the talk, for example gods, demi-gods, nagas etc. In fact nagas were said to be keeping  the Perfection of Wisdom scriptures until they returned it to Nagarjuna.

Therefore, we are the minority, the Dharma is also not exclusively ours, just that the human realm is the most conducive to practise Dharma.

[dorjedakini]

Many of my friends had some sort of supernatural experience, some of them being disturbed by unseen spirit for many years until they found their Guru to help them to stop the disturbance.

I agree with Mana, human is so precious to practice Dharma. We always hold on to permanent and attach to what we thought will be good for us. There are many spirits attached to their house, their properties when they were alive, maybe for 50 to 60 years, but because of their attachment, they became a spirit of that area for thousands and thousands of years.

On top of that, If spirit exist, for sure Tara, Manjushri, Tsongkhapa, Dorje Shugden exist, then enlightenment is possible too.

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Perhaps it would be a good idea if people would study Buddhist cosmology before promoting an unseen Shugden, yes? 

[thaimonk]

Many of my friends had some sort of supernatural experience, some of them being disturbed by unseen spirit for many years until they found their Guru to help them to stop the disturbance.

I agree with Mana, human is so precious to practice Dharma. We always hold on to permanent and attach to what we thought will be good for us. There are many spirits attached to their house, their properties when they were alive, maybe for 50 to 60 years, but because of their attachment, they became a spirit of that area for thousands and thousands of years.

On top of that, If spirit exist, for sure Tara, Manjushri, Tsongkhapa, Dorje Shugden exist, then enlightenment is possible too.

Good example and good logic. Spirits do exist. Since they can exist, then many other unseen beings could exist whether we understand them or not.

[iloveds]

Perhaps it would be a good idea if people would study Buddhist cosmology before promoting an unseen Shugden, yes? 

What is Buddhist cosmology? How does it relate to unseen beings and their existence?

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Perhaps it would be a good idea if people would study Buddhist cosmology before promoting an unseen Shugden, yes? 

What is Buddhist cosmology? How does it relate to unseen beings and their existence?

The six (or five) realms of kama-loka, and the six (or five) types of possible becoming: hell-beings, hungry ghosts, animals, humans, demi gods, and gods. (Sometimes the two types of gods are lumped together, making in total five possible modes of existence.)

That is a basic tenet of Buddhism. All traditions agree on that teaching, so the existence of various spirits is not in doubt, or even debatable. (Only some modern teachers of Soto Zen and "Western Buddhism" deny the realms outside of humans and animals, but they tend to deny rebirth altogether.)

[WisdomBeing]

I believe in Buddhism and thus the 6 realms so i definitely believe in the spiritworld... i do know some Buddhists who say they don't believe in ghosts.. i find that very weird. How can you be a Buddhist and not believe in the 6 realms?! I have a few non-buddhist friends (one is a pagan and one is a Christian) who see spirits and one confirms what the other is seeing so it's pretty conclusive proof to me. I wonder if they could see Dorje Shugden...

Can people only see spirits - i.e. what about Gods and demi-Gods? Dakas and Dakinis? And the Buddhas?

[DharmaSpace]

That is a basic tenet of Buddhism. All traditions agree on that teaching, so the existence of various spirits is not in doubt, or even debatable. (Only some modern teachers of Soto Zen and "Western Buddhism" deny the realms outside of humans and animals, but they tend to deny rebirth altogether.)

Thats very surprising to hear the sects mentioned above deny the existence of realms besides what they can perceive. There is so much Buddhist literature out there about Buddha speaking about the six realms, it almost hints at Buddha was lying and not telling the truth about the true nature of the existence. Very surprising to read this.

[WisdomBeing]

I agree with you, Dharmaspace - I do find it very contrary to the core of Buddhism. Those who don't believe in the spirits would most likely not believe in reincarnation either. I don't know about these Soto Zen or Western Buddhist sects mentioned here - the Western Buddhists i have met do believe in reincarnation.

[KhedrubGyatso]

We humans like to think we are logical when in fact we are not. Or rather we do not apply logic equally. We have always assumed many things to be real or exist when in fact we had never established it. We swear by science when in fact science itself is based on assumptions. How many of us have proven the existence of gravity or has seen it? Why then do we believe there is such a phenomenon?Just because scientists told us? How reliable are scientists' experiments when they are all based on assumptions , certain parameters and the observer's interpretation ? They were the ones who told us the world was flat, that the earth was the centre of the universe, that there was no particle smaller than an atom, that thalidomide was a miracle drug , that a person is considered dead if their pulse stopped. All these turned out to be wrong and their findings  continue to be subjected to revision. Yet we have the words of someone whom no one including scientists had ever said had lied for 2500 years and we doubt him more than the people and their methods who have a  long proven record of being unreliable. Granted, for gross objects, empirical methods are useful. However for establishing subtle objects which are beyond our sensory perceptions or measuring instruments, we need to employ other methods like  inferential logic and observations of things as they are to establish them.

[DharmaDefender]

I agree with you, Dharmaspace - I do find it very contrary to the core of Buddhism. Those who don't believe in the spirits would most likely not believe in reincarnation either. I don't know about these Soto Zen or Western Buddhist sects mentioned here - the Western Buddhists i have met do believe in reincarnation.

That seems totally contrary to what Shakyamuni taught... and I thought all schools of thought go back to him?

[Klein]

I used to see many spirits until I met my Guru who helped me stop seeing them. I would cross check with my friends who see spirits as well to ensure that I'm not hallucinating. This used to be a daily affair. Sometimes I'd see at least a hundred of them at a time. They appear in many shapes and sizes. 

Sometimes I can't see them but I can feel their strong presence around me. Sometimes they will even create paranormal experiences like moving things around my room or short circuit my electrical equipments.  I know they exist and there are countless numbers of them.

Look at the insect world alone. There are hundreds of millions in the forests that we're not even aware of. But do they exist? Definitely.

We're obviously not alone regardless of whether we sense them or not.

[dondrup]

Seeing is believing. Does it mean that those that we couldn’t perceive with our naked eyes do not exist?

According to Buddha, there are basically three forms of beings – the desire beings, form beings and formless beings. Hence the bardo beings, gods, demi-gods, spirits, hungry ghosts and hell beings are example of formless beings.  Buddhas are also formless. Due to the throwing karma at the last moment of death, a sentient being will take rebirth as a desire being or form being or formless being in his or her next life.  A Buddha does not lie.  Hence, unseen beings do exist.

Some people are born gifted with the ability to perceive these unseen beings.  They had the clairvoyance or third eye to perceive them.  Ordinary humans cannot see these beings. However yogis or meditators who have highly developed their minds will have the abilities to perceive these unseen beings. 

The ability to see these formless beings may or may not be a blessing.  Sometimes these gifted persons are not trained or educated about their abilities to perceive the unseen world.  It becomes a liability rather than a gift to them.