Compulsive lying

[Klein]

I have a friend who can't stop lying. No matter how many times she apologises, she still continues to lie. What causes this compulsive behaviour and what can be done to help this person? This person loves the dharma and always want to volunteer. But this compulsive behaviour is causing a lot of damage to the organisation.

[WoselTenzin]

Usually the core problem of such a compulsive liar is deeper than just lying.  Lying is more like the symptom of the underlying problem.  A person lie to cover up mistakes or any committed dishonesty.  An easy way out instead of taking responsibility.  A mistake is usually committed due to laziness, carelessness and lack of care.  Dishonesty could arise from wrong motivation.  Whatever the reason to lie, the substantial cause mentioned above plays a major role because if the substantial cause is not present, then there is no reason to lie.

Therefore, to help this friend, perhaps, it would help if you find out the underlying cause for her compulsive lying.  If she addresses the source of her problem, then perhaps, she would have a better chance of stopping the habit of lying. This is not something that can be changed over night but at least if you can help her identify the source of her problem, she has something she can work on to get out of this compulsive habit. 

[hope rainbow]

Usually the core problem of such a compulsive liar is deeper than just lying.  Lying is more like the symptom of the underlying problem.  A person lie to cover up mistakes or any committed dishonesty.  An easy way out instead of taking responsibility.  A mistake is usually committed due to laziness, carelessness and lack of care.  Dishonesty could arise from wrong motivation.  Whatever the reason to lie, the substantial cause mentioned above plays a major role because if the substantial cause is not present, then there is no reason to lie.

Therefore, to help this friend, perhaps, it would help if you find out the underlying cause for her compulsive lying.  If she addresses the source of her problem, then perhaps, she would have a better chance of stopping the habit of lying. This is not something that can be changed over night but at least if you can help her identify the source of her problem, she has something she can work on to get out of this compulsive habit.

Indeed, thank you WT for your insights.

Mostly, lying is a mechanism of "defensiveness", we protect our self from being discovered or identified (wrongly or rightly) as the person responsible.
And a such, it is a habit of escaping responsibilities.
Taking responsibility can help to get rid of the habit of lying.

Lying can also be assisting in the construction of a projection of oneself to others as a fantasy of our mind.
I could say that my father was a rich prince who could not recognize me because I was the fruit of a forbidden love affair, and that I am of royal blood, when in fact I have never known of my father at all... Lying can be like that to. It does not cover a "mistake" of mine, but it creates an illusion that I find flatters my ego.

Whichever it is, lying is a habit mostly destructive to the liar, and often the only solution a liar finds to the devastating results of his lies is ... to lie some more. This makes it very difficult to remove the habit.

Perhaps renewing its refuge vow everyday with conviction would help.
There must be a shift in the mind of a compulsive liar that makes him/her realize that not lying is more reliable a solution than lying!

[Ensapa]

sometimes compulsive lying is a sign that the individual may be suffering from a mental issue like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder. It could be also that the person is in deep denial, if they happen to be unable to face a certain traumatic event in their lives and they lie to themselves.

In general compulsive liars are people who lie to themselves all the time for whatever reason, which is the reason why they lie to others, because they are unable to be honest to themselves. Counselling may help to unravel what is going on, but the caveat is that the compulsive liar needs to know that she needs help.

[Positive Change]

Compulsive liars are exactly that! They have a compulsion to lie, sometimes to a point where they themselves can't even keep track of their lies. I believe a compulsive liar is always aware of his or her lying and hence when a compulsive liar says he or she does not realise he or she is lying or that they have no control... that in itself is a lie!

The compulsion to lie most commonly stems from a deep rooted problem and that problem I feel comes from pain. Pain generated by years of suppressed anger, frustration, hurt, etc. And the mind "creates" a perfect scenario in which the person is kept "safe"... so they think.

And this haven they create for themselves only causes more harm as it is a "reality" that is based on a selfish and complete self preservation to a point where no one else matters. Surely this is not the way to get out of our pain. I learnt from a young age that we need to love more and not cause more pain to others if we want love. With love comes love and with pain, anger, frustration, hurt etc... comes just that and more!

Even if what I say proves not to be right at the end of my life, at least I have lived a life that is filled with the emotions I am seeking rather than filling it with more of the emotions that I dread!

So Klein, that is what I would tell your friend. To love more, to share more and to live more... I believe compulsive lying can be stopped as it is a mere thought, a selfish one at that!

[hope rainbow]

Lying compulsively is a matter of having built-up the habit over a long period of time, we may say several life times.

Nobody engages in non-virtuous actions with the thought that it is helpless and damaging, I don't think so.
When we engage in a non-virtuous action, it  is always because we think it is the best thing to do, because we think it is a solution. Our mind has analyzed a situation and has come to the [ignorant and false] conclusion that the non-virtuous action would be better than abstaining from it.


Examples:

I engage in a sexual intercourse with someone's partner, and in the moment I think it's ok, I'll deal with the karma later, for now, this feels like a good thing to do. The train of thought is even more convinced of the validity of this act for someone who has no Dharma knowledge. This is ignorance at work.

I seize an opportunity to use some money that is not mine and justify this with all sorts of logic that I make-up to be stronger than the karma I must face for stealing. This is ignorance at work.

I lie because I think the immediate result of that lie will "save my day". This is ignorance at work.


I think that the person suffering from a compulsion of engaging in a non-virtuous action must establish the firm conviction that refraining from that action is the solution to the problem, always.

In the case of lying: to believe strongly that not lying is more reliable a solution than lying, and that lying is not a solution but a problem.

One lies to get out of trouble. If one can truly realize than refraining from lying is getting one out of trouble, then, I think, the compulsion can be overridden, because the fact is this: WE ALL WANT TO GET OUT OF TROUBLE.

[negra orquida]

One lies to get out of trouble.

When put in this way, lying is a form of escapism isn't it?  For me when I lie it is because I know I am  in trouble and want to use the "easiest" way out without admitting I am wrong --> not wanting to bear responsibility / lazy + ego.

I don't like to lie because I feel it is a betrayal of the other person's trust and digging a hole for my own self eventually... I guess if one realises that lying will cause hurt to the person, and cares about the person's feelings more than his/her ego.. the lying would stop.

[bambi]

Because of all the lies that were said, that person can't stop doing it because it became habitual.  It became something fun and trying to fie further in order to cover the lies previously.  Karma from lying may also cause the person to have (mental illness) depending on the weight of the negative karma created.  Laziness, ego, pride are also some of the reasons that cause these people to lie as they cant let other people look down on them, create rumors, make them look stupid etc.  We should instead help these people instead of making them worse.  Some of the ways would be advising them to do purification practices, remind them of the negative karma they are creating which will be very bad in the future or reading the Lam Rim...

[Gypsy]

Everyone lies from time to time. Studies show that we lie several times a day, for example, "No, ur dress looks nice!" but actually u think she looks like a drag queen. Well, this is just very minor lie, if were to compare with compulsive lying.

I believe a compulsive liar regards telling lies as a routine. It becomes second nature. They not only bend the truth about issues big or small, they take comfort in it. They feel good telling lies, whether to cover their mistakes, delusions, to confuse people, or merely just to cover the lies he/she told before. Because when u tell a lie, u gotta tell more lies to cover the previous lie so that people won't find out the loophole of your 'beautiful' lie.

To deal with a compulsive liar is quite tricky. Getting them to admit they having such problem is difficult. Sadly enough, when counseling and therapy(meditational or spiritual) don't work, it's really up to themselves to come to a realization one day and hope they would come out from this "comfort zone" of lying, face the world and the truth, with sincere heart.

[Klein]

Everyone lies from time to time. Studies show that we lie several times a day, for example, "No, ur dress looks nice!" but actually u think she looks like a drag queen. Well, this is just very minor lie, if were to compare with compulsive lying.

Dear hysteric gypsy,

What you mentioned is a white lie and not a lie per se. White lies do not create negative karma, lies do. A white lie doesn't have bad intention to hurt the person, a lie does.

Telling a person that her dress looks nice when it makes her look like a drag queen might be said out of compassion. The white lie is said perhaps to not embarrass her in public or lower her spirits. Therefore, sometimes it is necessary to tell white lies.

[shugdentruth]

In my opinion, when we lie, its to get into a favorable situations more than getting out of trouble. Because more often than not, people lie about things that won't get them into any serious trouble. If we tell a drag queen look alike that she dresses cool, she will appreciate us because very few people would have complimented her that way. So the reason of the lie would be for her to be happy and favor us.
Another example, If I killed somebody, I would deny it or lie to any other person. But if I was speaking to a fellow murderer, wouldn't want to lie. Because, when I lie to a non murderer, I would be favored. But if I lie to a fellow murderer, I would not be favored. 

[Big Uncle]

I think the issue here is not little white lies but more serious lies that are meant to hurt, avoid responsibility or with schismatic intent. Those are the serious lies that have serious repercussions. People who lie are always with a 'front', protecting themselves from a perceived threat that is often unreal or exaggerated. More often that not, deception is just a tool they have honed over a period of time to avoid seemingly small problems and responsibilities. Before they know it, they are unable to control the lying and nothing loses people's respect more than lying. How can we trust a person who lies all the time. People who lie a lot are very lonely people because they have to keep up the lies and in the end, they always alone because people will not be fooled forever. 

[vajratruth]

People start lying because they cannot accept the truth of a situation. And they keep lying because more and more their lives become to be constructed on lies that have trapped them in. I guess when you create negative karma, it creates also more causes for more negative karma to be created. After a while, the lies become bigger than the person.

If they were to stop lying, the entirety of their "life" falls apart. I guess it must be quite a miserable life knowing that a person is living a fantasy. Liars are usually very angry people because they feel trapped.

Fear takes over and habitual liars fear that should the truth be known, they will lose everything. They lose self respect and when they lose self respect, they stop trying to be better. They just go along. In general society is not very forgiving because in general society suffers its own illnesses.

It takes very sincere and compassionate friends who on the on hand do not tolerate the lies, but on the other hand, does not give up on the person afflicted with the habit of lying no matter how onerous that friendship has become.

Kindness changes everything.

[yontenjamyang]

I agree with most that is said by others in this tread.

By compulsive, I must take it that it is not about lying because of laziness, to cover up some thing etc. Compulsive really mean lying for the sake of lying. It is the results of "Tendencies similar to the cause" in the Lamrim. This means the person has been lying in his in her past live(s) and it is repeating is an increasingly habitual way.
I think the best way to help from our side is to dedicate our merits generated by our Sadhanas or any Dharma work to this person. We should bring this person to do Dharma work, pujas, purification practices and the like to clear the Karma for lying. If not, I shudder to think of the consequences as the Karma generated for lying can be quite severe.
Basically, we need to nurture this person, don't give up on this person ever. Bring this person to Dharma.

[buddhalovely]

What this person is doing may be caused by an imprint from her past life. Though she has the karma to be connected to Dharma she may not have the karma to tell the truth. However, her karma from being involved in the dharma, she may have the chance to be a better person and reduce her amount of lying. In buddhism, all is forgiven if you have the motivation to transform and  being benefits to all sentient beings. Lying may arise from a different perspective such as to cover up another persons faulty actions, avoid projecting pain to others, protect somebody. It's only bad if the person lies for his/her own pleasure and entertainment.

It's only human to lie and it doesn't take a nighter to change. As a fellow dharma sibling you should assist her in transforming her mind. What you say or do defines what a person is. You must understand the situation from both sides to completely, maybe she doesn't want to lie but her mind is insisting on it. In this case on her compulsive lying, it may be deeper than just lying. It could be a phase of a compulsive disorder.