Geshe Kelsang and others kadampa

[lodoe]

Dear friends.

Thanks for your valuable post. Geshe Kelsang gyaltso try to steer away from ones own people seem to non-boddhisatva attitude. Great vehicle practitioner must not discriminate any of sentient beings. I understand that geshe lak has prevailed the atisha and master tsonkhapa doctrine in west. Its great job but one must engage the practice of dharma to all. Being away from tibetan will not eventually become non-tibetan. During the recent conflicts in South India, Many true practitioner of Dharma especially  in need of support of moral and finance. Is it heroic to be stay from them?  How could be One who preach and practice the protector of Gaden Oral Transmission doesn't  come forward to assist and protect the geden tradition?  I know geshe lak tried before and he get fed up. Did Boddhisatva practitioner  get tired only few miles of walking?
There is saying in tibetan,: Eventually one has attained the superior realization or similar level of understanding of boddhisatva, one must behave as people as other.

I appeal to all dharma friends to simply ask yourself and urge geshe kelsand and others like him  to reflect ones mind.

May peace prevails all over the world.

Tenzin Lama

[Dave]

Dear Tenzin-la,

I apologize for starting a post like this, I don't want negative talk about my guru or any others.

But I  will say that Geshe-la has not "forgotten" his roots and I'm sure he is doing something during these times.
Like my modified post says,"he wants to expand the lineage with westerners not start a new lineage."
And like Alexis stated,my tradition (NKT) cannot survive if we abandon our lineage guru's and where we all came from.
Not all great Lamas are going to go out and be public,like you said he has already done this,and it came with negative results for the most part.
He must have other methods (all Buddhas do) for assisting the needy,like praying!

[Jane]

Tenzin, I think your remarks are completely unacceptable, you are judging a lama, besides being one of the rules of this forum no to critizise lamas, etc., you have no idea of what Geshe Kelsang has done for the benefit of all beings, including Tibetans. You do not know what he may or not doing for Tibetans, so I suggest you see your own faults instead of proclaiming false faults on others.
Thanks
Other "lama" =:))

[lodoe]

Hello once again, its you. many greetings and tashi delek. Well well, I am not talking about past and am taking present. And my intention is not to just this great lama but to remind him and others. I am glad he is reconsidering nowadays. I applaud for your devotion. keep it up. 
Mirror does sometimes great.

May the mountains of anger vanish into thin air,
May the kindness generate in all minds.

with best regards to you and all.

[three pots]

Jane,

Hello again.  I would like to humbly request you to have patience with your fellow forum members.  It seems you you are missing the point once again.  Lodoe was responding to a post by Dave (now Johnny) which was not included on this string.  I have copied the original below so that you can see everything in its full context (note that Dave/Johnny has since modified his original post) but if you read from the bottom up you might have a better understanding of where Lodoe is coming from.  He is not criticising or judging Geshe Kelsang Gyatso - he was responding to Dave's answer to someone who was requesting that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso translate the biographies of Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang and Kyabje Pabongkha Dechen Nyingpo. 

Especially when one's handle on the English language is less than ours, we need to take an extra moment or two to understand what they are trying to get across before passing judgement.  It should be noted that those with great understanding of the Dharma may not have great understanding of the English language, so again please read the words of our brothers and sisters on this forum carefully, making sure that you understand their statements in full context before responding with such conviction.

Thank you.

Posted earlier:

Johnny
Guest
Re: Geshe Kelsang teaching on DS
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 07:02:07 PM » Quote 
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Thank you Alexis,for clearing it up.
I've modified my post accordingly I hope
 
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Alexis
Jr. Member
Posts: 70
Re: Geshe Kelsang teaching on DS
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 07:00:40 PM » Quote 
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There cannot be a 'New' gelug tradition. There is only one gelug tradition and NKT is a part of it.

There is no 'starting afresh', all our lineages goes a long way back to India.

If you 'cut Tibet out', you will not receive the blessings of the lineage.

Tibetans were very carefull not to 'cut India out'. That's why the Lama Chopa (Offering to the Spiritual Guide) starts with 'Namo Gurubya' in sanskrit.

NKT is not a splinter group from Gelug. 
 
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Johnny
Guest
Re: Geshe Kelsang teaching on DS
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2008, 06:57:55 PM » Quote 
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Three pots,
very true.I've done this in the past and I should watch my speech..i don't really know his intentions.
Thank you for that.
 
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three pots
Newbie
Posts: 16
 Re: Geshe Kelsang teaching on DS
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2008, 05:31:42 PM » Quote Modify Remove 
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Dear Dave,

With respect, I also wish to caution you, and all of us, in attempting to explain the actions and wishes of our teachers.  While Geshe Kelsang Gyatso may be stearing away from certain aspects of Tibetan tradition and culture, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang and Kyabje Pabongkha Dechen Nyingpo are first and foremost two of the greatest masters of our time, from whom Geshe-la himself has acquired his knowledge.  I don't claim to know one way or another what he plans to translate or author, but as many will look to you and others of us for information on these teachers that we are speaking for we should choose our words oh so carefully. 

Also Mountains, there are I believe two individuals who are translating the autobiography of Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang at this time.  I don't know how they feel about announcing it at this point but just know that something is coming. 
 
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lodoe
Newbie
Posts: 11
Re: Geshe Kelsang teaching on DS
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2008, 04:32:41 PM » Quote 
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Dear Johnny,
Thanks for your valuable post. Geshe Kelsang gyaltso try to steer away from ones own people seem to non-boddhisatva attitude. Great vehicle practitioner must not discriminate any of sentient beings. I understand that geshe lak has prevailed the atisha and master tsonkhapa doctrine in west. Its great job but one must engage the practice of dharma to all. Being away from tibetan will not eventually become non-tibetan. During the recent conflicts in South India, Many true practitioner of Dharma especially  in need of support of moral and finance. Is it heroic to be stay from them?  How could be One who preach and practice the protector of Gaden Oral Transmission doesn't  come forward to assist and protect the geden tradition?  I know geshe lak tried before and he get fed up. Did Boddhisatva practitioner  get tired only few miles of walking?
There is saying in tibetan,: Eventually one has attained the superior realization or similar level of understanding of boddhisatva, one must behave as people as other.

I appeal to all dharma friends to simply ask yourself and urge geshe kelsand and others like him  to reflect ones mind.

May peace prevails all over the world.

Tenzin Lama

« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 11:30:03 PM by Admin »  Report to moderator    Logged 
 
 
 
Johnny
Guest
 Re: Geshe Kelsang teaching on DS
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2008, 02:39:15 PM » Quote 

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I don't know Geshe-la's stand on wanting to translate more biographies..
I believe he's trying to steer away from Tibetan tradition and design a whole new "Western" Lineage  (with it's own less ornate rituals and meditation gompas/centers) from the Gelugpa school.(Please take this with a grain of sand,i don't truly know my guru's intentions as i've not asked him personally,Geshe Kelsang is not here to destroy the Tibetan lineage,he's here to expand it with westerners!)

I would also love the translation,and it's quite possible.
I know he refers in his books to go and read biographies of great teachers indirectly.
I know for a fact he says to look for Milarepa's life stories and the works of Kechen-la (author of Enlightened Beings)
And many more are mentioned,he just refers us to the original authors,which makes some students confused on how to find them since all the new translators' name the books different titles.
 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 11:27:17 PM by Admin » 
 
 
 

[Jane]

Thanks Johnny, I definitely cherish patience, but here in this forum we can also disagree, even if the author may be a high young tulku. If someone disagrees it shoudl not be taken a sign of being impatient.

It is not the same to criticise an attitude than a person, and i think to highlight this difference is meaningful. Don´t you think?

[polartortoise]

actually, i have it from a very reliable source that geshela is deeply disturbed by the recent events. u must understand that the old masters are always in touch with one another. geshela regrets that he is too advanced in age but he has committed funds to help.

polartortoise

[Rinchen]

What is posted by Tenzin is absolutely not acceptable. All lamas have their own insight, no lama is greater than another or beneath another. What we should be doing is to respect all of them no matter what.

What ever that is being done by these masters, although we may not understand what is happening, but it is definitely part of a divine play that is happening. Just think about it, if it was not for Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Buddhism will not be spread over to the West in such a massive way. NKT is considered as one of the biggest centres in the world. Without Geshe-la's efforts of spreading dharma in the west using methods that suits them, Tibetan Buddhism will not be known by so many people. Thus, it is also through Geshe-la's eforts that continued to make Buddhism known and the culture to continue.

[SabS]

I guess on first read, one would be a little displeased with what Tenzin had written but upon reading Three Pot's post then we find the answer why Tenzin would have written as he had. He was reacting to the writings of Johnny who had not been clear but upon realising this had amended his post. To me, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso had done so much for the West and worldwide, written many Dharma texts that had benefitted and he always taught as his Gurus had taught under the Gelug lineage. His people had stood up against the unreasonable ban on Dorje Shugden and created much publicity and awareness to people of the world. I would say that he is a great Master of the Dharma by proof of the successful results of his activities which includes over 1,000 Dharma Centres all over the world. Somehow I don't think anyone would be qualified to speak against him unless they have accomplished the great things that he had done, spreading Lama Tsongkapa's teachings to all directions of the world.