Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously

[WisdomBeing]

Big Uncle,

You're right. we don't know for sure if that was exactly what was conveyed. I guess our comments are on the face value of what was reported though.

I have also heard that many Nyingma practitioners have traditionally had a jaundiced view of Gelug practitioners. However, there are also several Nyingmapas who are spectacularly non-sectarian and supportive of the Gelug and Dorje Shugden practitioners, such as HH Penor Rinpoche.

[DharmaDefender]

However, having said this, it is not unusual for Nyingma Lamas to put down Gelugs due to a long history of rivalry since the time of the Great Fifth Dalai Lama. So up to today, the Nyingma do not view the Gelugs favorably especially in their stronghold in Nepal. This still does not negate the unfair slack that Gelug teachers receive for many issues that Lamas of other traditions can easily get away with.

I personally feel its a double-edged sword. Our 'high standards' is what sets our tradition apart and is what has helped keep our lineage so pure. So whilst were our own harshest critics, we also have to contend with criticism from other lineages. What help keeps the harmony is the fact WE are taught by Lama Tsongkhapa not to criticise others.

Ever heard of Gandhi throwing out the line "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? I think it applies very well to this situation. So what if Yeshe Dorje made a prattish statement? Doesnt mean Gelugs have to respond. In any case, with this Dorje Shugden issue, we are making ourselves a joke anyway... our teachings talk about harmony and compassion, but theres so much in-fighting going on. Who can take us seriously if were not presenting the best example of what we are supposed to be teaching?

Anyway, I think this whole issues about the CTA. Lobsang Sangye's been in power for how long, and not a peep from him on this?

[Ensapa]

it's been quite well known that some teachers of the kagyu, nyigma and sakya do make unfavorable comments against the Gelug from time to time and has been influencing their students to do so as well. However it was never talked about in the open till this statement was revealed. I guess this is what they call religious hypocrisy.

[beggar]

it's been quite well known that some teachers of the kagyu, nyigma and sakya do make unfavorable comments against the Gelug from time to time and has been influencing their students to do so as well. However it was never talked about in the open till this statement was revealed. I guess this is what they call religious hypocrisy.

That's interesting to hear you say this openly. What comments have you heard and from where? I think the danger is that perhaps sometimes quotations are also taken grossly out of context (perhaps even in the original example of this Nyingma Yeshe Dorje video - I'm not terribly convinced of this student's credibility! Could he have heard it wrongly? Or interpreted wrongly?

There is a large part of me that finds it hard to believe that any real Lama, no matter school he is from, would openly attack or put down another school of Buddhism. This should be a common practice throughout all Buddhist traditions, after all - the very basis of kindness, not to create schism or doubt! I think we must also be very careful not to fall into a trap of generalising that all or a majority of Nyingmas, Kagyus, Sakyas speak badly about Gelugs. As is usually the case, just a few bad apples could spoil the whole basket.

I think the main point of this post is more the fact that a practitioner of the Kagyu school is allowed to get away with saying or implying things like this about another Buddhist school.... whereas, this would be grossly NOT tolerated if it came from the Gelug school.... hypocrisy and many double, triple standards.

[Ensapa]

it's been quite well known that some teachers of the kagyu, nyigma and sakya do make unfavorable comments against the Gelug from time to time and has been influencing their students to do so as well. However it was never talked about in the open till this statement was revealed. I guess this is what they call religious hypocrisy.

That's interesting to hear you say this openly. What comments have you heard and from where? I think the danger is that perhaps sometimes quotations are also taken grossly out of context (perhaps even in the original example of this Nyingma Yeshe Dorje video - I'm not terribly convinced of this student's credibility! Could he have heard it wrongly? Or interpreted wrongly?

There is a large part of me that finds it hard to believe that any real Lama, no matter school he is from, would openly attack or put down another school of Buddhism. This should be a common practice throughout all Buddhist traditions, after all - the very basis of kindness, not to create schism or doubt! I think we must also be very careful not to fall into a trap of generalising that all or a majority of Nyingmas, Kagyus, Sakyas speak badly about Gelugs. As is usually the case, just a few bad apples could spoil the whole basket.

I think the main point of this post is more the fact that a practitioner of the Kagyu school is allowed to get away with saying or implying things like this about another Buddhist school.... whereas, this would be grossly NOT tolerated if it came from the Gelug school.... hypocrisy and many double, triple standards.

From Trijang Rinpoche's accounts of how some kagyu's accused him to be sectarian for promoting Lama Tsongkhapa to kalu rinpoche blatantly affirming the rumor of Pabongkha Rinpoche forcibly converting nyigma temples and destroying Guru Rinpoche statues (it is written very clearly in his biography that he believes this to be true, without any investigation on his side!!! he AFFIRMED it. there was no maybe.) there has been "unofficial" hints of here and there. Also it can be observed that some non gelug western tibetan buddhists has been quite anti gelug - the most prominent being a certain moderator of a now defunct buddhist forum. Western non gelug students also seem to prefer rime than to gelug (altho the contents are very similar...) and they seem to be very excited with gorampa, a sakya lama who wrote scathing rebuttals against Tsongkhapa's teachings during that period of time.

Who else influenced those western students if not for their own Tibetan Lamas? some students i have encountered has also made statements like avoiding gelug alltogether or to avoid lamas whose lamas are connected with Shugden. Which Gelug lama is not? When asked further they replied their gurus told them so. All of these are really subtle anti gelug influences that everyone keeps under wraps. They dare to give 'advice' of this nature but dare not openly describe in detail why and what their lamas said exactly.

i'd say it is about time this issue and the blatant hypocrisy be brought to light and be purged from the pool of practitioners. So this video of yeshe dorje just confirms it.