Author Topic: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously  (Read 13583 times)

thaimonk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 652
Library of Tibetan Works and Archives (LTWA) was started by the former Tibetan Government-in-exile (now CTA, Central Tibetan Administration). LTWA is located in Dharamsala a few doors away from Nechung Monastery. It is where all the ancient Dharma texts of all four lineages are preserved, as well as many translations of those works into different languages. Historical texts and records are kept there. It is a priceless storehouse of scriptures.
 
In this video you can see Yeshe Dorje in the 70s warning foreigners not to take Gelug teahchings seriously (see video at 0:40) at LTWA.
 
Luminaries and great Gelugpa teachers teachers such as Geshe Ngawang Dhargye’s would be in the LTWA during those days.

It is amazing to see Nyingma Yeshe Dorje Advising people to not take Gelug teachings seriously. If other sects criticize Gelug, the CTA will remain silent. But if a Gelug lama 'steps out of line' they will immediately react, comment or press down. Many reverse discrimination seen by CTA.

Video:

http://spiceyourday.com/?p=187

Zach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 03:53:46 PM »
Im not suprise Nyingmas consider the Gelug teachings to be heretical, Tell me whenever have you heard of a Rime Nyingma practitoner performing any Gelug practices ?
Likewise Tsongkhapa disagreed on many points of Nyingma teaching and seeing as Je Rinpoche was the great collector of practices and lineage you would have thought a great deal of the old school would have been included in the New Kadam lineage but as we know they were not for good reason, It is the same reason as why Nyingma works are not included in the Sarma Kangyur and Tanjur.

thaimonk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 652
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 04:01:25 PM »
Im not suprise Nyingmas consider the Gelug teachings to be heretical, Tell me whenever have you heard of a Rime Nyingma practitoner performing any Gelug practices ?
Likewise Tsongkhapa disagreed on many points of Nyingma teaching and seeing as Je Rinpoche was the great collector of practices and lineage you would have thought a great deal of the old school would have been included in the New Kadam lineage but as we know they were not for good reason, It is the same reason as why Nyingma works are not included in the Sarma Kangyur and Tanjur.

Zach, What you say makes sense. Have you ever seen a Nyingmapa giving Tsongakapa initiation or practice Gaden Hlagyema? Never. But that is not considered sectarian.

I personally am attracted to Nyingma teachings and respect the practices very much, but people like Yeshe Dorje really give Nyingmapas a bad name and create the real sectarian feelings and animosity. You never hear sectarian comments from Nyingma teachers such as Penor Rinpoche.

Zach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 04:15:15 PM »
Im not suprise Nyingmas consider the Gelug teachings to be heretical, Tell me whenever have you heard of a Rime Nyingma practitoner performing any Gelug practices ?
Likewise Tsongkhapa disagreed on many points of Nyingma teaching and seeing as Je Rinpoche was the great collector of practices and lineage you would have thought a great deal of the old school would have been included in the New Kadam lineage but as we know they were not for good reason, It is the same reason as why Nyingma works are not included in the Sarma Kangyur and Tanjur.

Zach, What you say makes sense. Have you ever seen a Nyingmapa giving Tsongakapa initiation or practice Gaden Hlagyema? Never. But that is not considered sectarian.

I personally am attracted to Nyingma teachings and respect the practices very much, but people like Yeshe Dorje really give Nyingmapas a bad name and create the real sectarian feelings and animosity. You never hear sectarian comments from Nyingma teachers such as Penor Rinpoche.

No of course you will never see this Thaimonk as I said the Gelug tradition is considered Heretical in Nyingma eyes not to mention there is the great distinction between the doctrine of Emptiness in the two schools. Yes I find Nyingma teachings attractive as well I think If I had not already met Kadam Dharma I would have eventually had a look at their teachings.

But now because the teachings are so different it would be unwise for me to juggle two distinct sets of teachings that contradict one and other.

Yeshe Dorje did add to the old feelings of sectarianism amongst the schools it really was rife for centuries in Tibet and old feelings die hard, Penor Rinpoche had a very good example by not criticising other traditions.

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 04:18:42 PM »
Wow, that's something shocking to come across... okay, maybe not that shocking given the things we hear today .. but very disappointing, certainly. What double standards there are. That a Nyingma can openly put down the practices of another sect by telling his student "not to take them seriously" and be allowed to get away with that.

Flip the coin and note that Gelugpa practitioners are heavily criticised just for practising teachings of their own lineage and not incorporating other lineages. A Gelugpa practitioner may be peaceful, humble and never utter a single word about any other sect, but he is still automatically criticised merely for not taking teachings from other sects. Imagine if he said anything near what this Nyingma lama had told his students!

It is said that in trying to unify the sects and all Tibetan people, the Dalai Lama had started to take a more Rime approach, which would incorporate teachings from all sects instead of just focusing on one. It's a good PR move - it makes people of the other sects very happy. I suppose this is fine as an approach, but has become a big issue when people don't wish to follow this method but with to remain with the practices and teaching approaches that have been passed to them by their teachers. This makes sense, after all. Why would any Lama teach his students teachings from other sects which he has no knowledge of or no training in? But then, if one doesn't take the rime approach to include other teachings, then they are criticised for being sectarian.

Now, it gets trickier. You see, the Dalai Lama and his supporters cannot openly criticise other sects for what they do or do not practice. This becomes very overtly sectarian which is not good PR for the Dalai Lama or his people. As he comes directly from the Gelugpa sect, with a very prominent Gelugpa lineage, it would not behove him to criticise or speak about any other school of Buddhism. BUT because the Gelugpas are his own sect, what seems to be happening is that criticism is now launched against this own school - hence, Gelugpa practitioners (specifically Dorje Shugden these days) being heavily admonished for not following the Rime approach. When some Gelug Lamas have advised their students not to follow Nyingma teachings for whatever good reasons, they are sent to the slaughterhouse! They are all accused of being sectarian and that their practices will make you degenerate and go to hell!

But isn't this precisely what this Nyingma is telling his students? Not to practise Gelugpa teachings or take them seriously? But nothing happens to him? He is not accused of being sectarian, there is nothing bad launched against his practices or his lineage.

I am sure that all Lamas have their own good reasons for advising their students with whatever they wish to advise. The issue here is not what the Lamas are advising, but the double standards with which the "authorities" (hah! if you can even call them that!) react to the same action that is being carried out by lamas from two different schools / backgrounds. Logically, the reactions do not make sense and make the government and the Dalai Lama's people look very foolish.

Double standards, double standards!

DharmaDefender

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 04:20:27 PM »
Library of Tibetan Works and Archives (LTWA) was started by the former Tibetan Government-in-exile (now CTA, Central Tibetan Administration). LTWA is located in Dharamsala a few doors away from Nechung Monastery. It is where all the ancient Dharma texts of all four lineages are preserved, as well as many translations of those works into different languages. Historical texts and records are kept there. It is a priceless storehouse of scriptures.
 
In this video you can see Yeshe Dorje in the 70s warning foreigners not to take Gelug teahchings seriously (see video at 0:40) at LTWA.
 
Luminaries and great Gelugpa teachers teachers such as Geshe Ngawang Dhargye’s would be in the LTWA during those days.

It is amazing to see Nyingma Yeshe Dorje Advising people to not take Gelug teachings seriously. If other sects criticize Gelug, the CTA will remain silent. But if a Gelug lama 'steps out of line' they will immediately react, comment or press down. Many reverse discrimination seen by CTA.

Video:

http://spiceyourday.com/?p=187



So let me get this straight - Yeshe Dorje can talk like this about our lineage, and Kalu Rinpoche can talk about his substance abuse...but Gelugpas cannot practise Dorje Shugden without the CTA coming down on us?

COME ON.

Zach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 04:51:03 PM »
Wow, that's something shocking to come across... okay, maybe not that shocking given the things we hear today .. but very disappointing, certainly. What double standards there are. That a Nyingma can openly put down the practices of another sect by telling his student "not to take them seriously" and be allowed to get away with that.

Flip the coin and note that Gelugpa practitioners are heavily criticised just for practising teachings of their own lineage and not incorporating other lineages. A Gelugpa practitioner may be peaceful, humble and never utter a single word about any other sect, but he is still automatically criticised merely for not taking teachings from other sects. Imagine if he said anything near what this Nyingma lama had told his students!

It is said that in trying to unify the sects and all Tibetan people, the Dalai Lama had started to take a more Rime approach, which would incorporate teachings from all sects instead of just focusing on one. It's a good PR move - it makes people of the other sects very happy. I suppose this is fine as an approach, but has become a big issue when people don't wish to follow this method but with to remain with the practices and teaching approaches that have been passed to them by their teachers. This makes sense, after all. Why would any Lama teach his students teachings from other sects which he has no knowledge of or no training in? But then, if one doesn't take the rime approach to include other teachings, then they are criticised for being sectarian.

Now, it gets trickier. You see, the Dalai Lama and his supporters cannot openly criticise other sects for what they do or do not practice. This becomes very overtly sectarian which is not good PR for the Dalai Lama or his people. As he comes directly from the Gelugpa sect, with a very prominent Gelugpa lineage, it would not behove him to criticise or speak about any other school of Buddhism. BUT because the Gelugpas are his own sect, what seems to be happening is that criticism is now launched against this own school - hence, Gelugpa practitioners (specifically Dorje Shugden these days) being heavily admonished for not following the Rime approach. When some Gelug Lamas have advised their students not to follow Nyingma teachings for whatever good reasons, they are sent to the slaughterhouse! They are all accused of being sectarian and that their practices will make you degenerate and go to hell!

But isn't this precisely what this Nyingma is telling his students? Not to practise Gelugpa teachings or take them seriously? But nothing happens to him? He is not accused of being sectarian, there is nothing bad launched against his practices or his lineage.

I am sure that all Lamas have their own good reasons for advising their students with whatever they wish to advise. The issue here is not what the Lamas are advising, but the double standards with which the "authorities" (hah! if you can even call them that!) react to the same action that is being carried out by lamas from two different schools / backgrounds. Logically, the reactions do not make sense and make the government and the Dalai Lama's people look very foolish.

Double standards, double standards!

The Rime approach of the Dalai lama isnt really Rime, It was ment to be about respecting one and others teachings and working with each other in mutal respect and harmony sure there would be some interchange of teachings between sects but one was ment to mainly focus on one school. This is not what the Dalai lama has been doing it was well known in the 60's that he was trying to create a single new school with him at its head this failed utterly and now it comes in the guise of Rime, more and more people are forming Samaya connections with HHDL and he is becoming the guru of all schools this is dangerous as it gives him primary authority over other teachers you can see the bad example that has become of this is when practitoners abandon the teachings of their root guru in favour of HHDL. Its none other then political activity in the guise of religion.

On the behest of the Dalai lamas words it has given Tibetans and western practitoners from other traditions the right to vilify and demoniscise Practitoners who do not wish to practice HHDL's political Dharma.

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 05:07:41 PM »
i hate it when religion and politics mix. It becomes very unpalatable to me. I dislike disharmony of any sort and this video certainly appears to sow seeds of it! Double standards seem to feature here. I didn't know that Nyingmas could be shamanist?

However, I shall try not to think negative thoughts about the Nyingmapas as they are a different school from me and i actually don't know that much about them. I shall not have negative thoughts about this Lama Yeshe Dorje though because he's still a Lama, even though i thoroughly disagree with what he said.

Here's more info on this Yeshe Dorje:

Khamtrül Ngak’chang Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche (1926 - 1993)
By Translated from spoken tape-recorded Tibetan by Johannes Frischknect & Gélong Thubten Dadak
Mar 2, 2007, 15:38

Lama Yeshe Dorje
Khamtrül Ngak’chang Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was a Nyingma Lama who practised mainly as a 'village ngakpa' - as a Tantric shaman specialising in shé-dür (exorcism) and weather control for the benefit of those amongst who he lived. He was a holder of the gö-kar-chang-lo, and was much loved by the Tibetan community in McLeod Ganj, in Northern India. In the later part of his life he became widely known as ‘the Dala’i Lama's weather-maker’, and traveled widely helping people with the vagaries of the climates they had to endure. In southern India the Tibetan communities suffered from drought, so he brought rain. In Manali he averted hail. Before his death in 1993 he had begun to travel frequently to the USA where he performed shé-dür in many places for the benefit of those with sickness and mental disturbances. He visited many of the centres established by HH Dudjom Rinpoche, gave instruction on Dudjom gTér-sar ngöndro. He also made two visits to the UK where he taught at Rigpa in London and elsewhere. Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was a master of Mahayoga - especially the practices of the Dudjom gTér-sar Tröma Nakmo. His main practice was Tröma gCod and it's attendant rites, and his gCod drum and kangling were familiar implements to all those who visited him.

Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was born on the fifteenth day, of the first month of the fire-tiger year - 1926, and died at the age of 67. His birth place was Mar-Kham, which means, southern Kham, in Western Tibet. His Mother was called Sonam Drölma and his father was called Ögyen Dorje and they belonged to the Drompa Tsang clan who came from Lharong in Mar-Kham. They were a ngak’phang couple of the Nyingma school, and had two other sons and a daughter. This yogi and yogini held a family lineage as was common in the Nyingma school, and the lineage passed from father to son. The eldest son of the family was recognised as a tulku and became the abbot of a Do-ngak-Ling gompa, whilst Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche became the family lineage holder. The Drompa Tsang clan was famous for the ngakpas of their family lineage who had powers over the weather. They had been relied upon for hundreds of years for the prevention of hail, especially by farmers. Hail in Tibet could be unusually violent and destroy crops completely, so this service was very valuable.

The lineage began at the time of the fifth Dala'i Lama with a ngak’phang Lama called Drüpthob Tashi. He was a ngak’phang togden who lived as a family man and his practice was mainly concerned with the integrating his realisation with the ordinary particulars of his existence. At that time, the central government was imposing inordinate taxes on his village, and the people were suffering a great deal as a result. The local governor used to extort the taxes by force when the people complained that they could not meet the unreasonable demands that were being made on them. Drüpthob Tashi was touched by the plight of the people and decided to help them in resist the demands. He made himself directly responsible to the governor in the rôle of local head-man, so that he would have to be called upon to make the payment rather than the people. In this rôle he offered the taxes the people could actually afford, and this caused the local governor considerable anger. He responded by sending armed soldiers to force Drüpthob Tashi to pay the entire sum demanded. Over fifty men arrived with guns and swords and surrounded his house, whilst a smaller group broke in and tied his sang-yum and children to pillars. Drüpthob Tashi was on the roof when the assault on his house began, and unable to protect his family. It was his custom to meditated on the roof where he could stare into the sky, and where he could integrate with air-element. Because he was unable to descend and help to his family, he simply waited for them to attack him. They shouted up to him to come down, but he refused to come unless the soldiers released his family. The armed men declined, and scaled the walls in order to apprehend him. Once on the roof, they proceeding to menace him, demanding that he pay the money the village ostensibly still owed - but Drüpthob Tashi's response dismayed them completely. He threw off his clothes and flew into the sky. The troops were terrified by this spectacle and threw themselves on the ground. Some began making fervent prostrations and beginning his forgiveness. Those below, in the house, untied his sang-yum and family immediately and apologised for the ignominy to which they had been subjected. When the local governor heard about this, he realised the Drüpthob Tashi was a realised being, and felt highly anxious about what he had done. He had no choice, in terms of his cultural background, but to conclude that Drüpthob Tashi must have had very good reasons for defying the demands for taxes. After this event the taxes were reviewed and thereafter, people were treated fairly.

Drüpthob Tashi was quite extraordinary in his abilities. He had the capacity to transform himself into a white vulture in order to appear to different beings and provide them with causes for liberation. He gave teaching in vulture from especially to the vultures who eat human corpses during sky burial, and it was said that the vultures who only eat human corpses after he had blessed them by tapping them three times with his beak. He would then return to human form and re-join his family. His lineage was transmitted to his son, and then from father to son, down through the generations until the birth of Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche. Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche's father had been the incarnation of Drüpthob Tashi, and Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was incarnation of the son.

Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was first recognised as an incarnation through a remarkable series of events that occurred when he was five years old. Until then his parents had no suspicion that he was anyone other than an ordinary child. Until then he had shown no unusual signs or prodigies. He had journeyed up into the mountains with his father and older brother for the day in search of medical herbs. He played whilst his father and bother collected herbs, but soon wandered off and got lost. When they realised he was nowhere to be found, his father consulted the Mo in order to find him. His father was both a doctor and an astrologer, and was highly accomplished in the art of divination. They set off immediately to find the hapless child and were astonished to discover him in a cave on the other side of the mountain. The cave seemed quite inaccessible, from where they stood and they decided that the only way they could reach him was for the elder son to be lowered down on a rope. When the brother appeared, dangling on the end of the rope, it quite startled the young, and he was just about to step off the edge of the cliff to escape when his brother caught him and they were both pulled up to safety. They realised that it would have been impossible for the young Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche to have reached the cave in so short a time, and realised at that point that he must have siddhis. After this event the family consulted with various important Lamas who concluded that Yeshé Dorje was indeed the re-birth of the Min'gyür Dorje. After he was recognised as the re-birth of Min’gyür Dorje, the son of Drüpthob Tashi, he was sent to study at Do-ngak-Ling where another of his brothers had been enthroned as the khenpo. There, he studied under a very good Lama called Pema Dorje. He thought that Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was very stupid, because he seemed to have no ability to memorise anything, and had no interest in study at all. Lama Pema Dorje was very strict with his student but it seemed to make no difference - Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche liked nothing better than to tease the monks and play games. One day, however, he had a dream in which there was the appearance of khandromas. The consequence of this visionary dream was the knowledge that he could easily memorise texts. When he woke up, he went to find the text that he had previously had no interest in memorising, and found that memorisation had become very easy for him. He began immediately memorise the text, and had learned almost 200 pages within month in which he had started. Once he had learned enough, he asked his teacher to fix the date for an official examination, but Lama Pema Dorje found it hard to take his request seriously. He was also concerned about his reputation as a tutor; because, if his student failed in the examination, it would reflect very badly upon him. However Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was insistent, and so Lama Pema had no choice but to organise the examination.

At the same time he also arranged horses and provisions for a speedy departure from the gompa - he didn't want to remain there after his charge had failed. The day arrived for the examination, and to the astonishment of his teacher, Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche proved that he could continue to recite the text from wherever his teacher left off without any hesitation! Lama Pema Dorje offered him prostrations immediately. Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche at first thought that the prostrations of his teacher portended another beating, but he was wrong - the old Lama was smiling through his tears, completely overcome by the prodigy he had witnessed in his apparently dim-witted student. Lama Pema then confided that he had been ready to quit the gompa, as he had been expecting to be disgraced by Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche's performance in the test. He then apologised for his stern and severe manner of teaching. He said that he now regretted the strict measures he had always employed and promised that in future he would be both gentle and kind to his student. From that time onward, the Lamas at the gompa showed affection and consideration for Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche, coming to visit him on special days.

People generally began to treat him in special ways and many presents arrived. As he grew older he was asked more and more to perform ph'owa and bardo rites for people, but he realised that he had no actual capacity to perform these practises. He sat on his throne and went through the motions, but it was the other Lamas who actually did the work. This made him feel rather ashamed, and he decided that it was not useful to spend his life in this way. One day three Drigung Kagyüd ngakpas passed through the area and stayed at the gompa. they were making an extended journey, practised gCod wherever they stopped. Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche was deeply impressed by them and talked with them about the essential meaning of practice. He revolved at that time that the only way that he could come to deserve the respect he had been shown, was to fully realise the powers with which he had been credited. He felt that he should learn to look after himself rather than rely on the support of the gompa. It occurred to him that he was not very free in the gompa, and that living off the contributions of the lay people when he had no real power to help them was rather shameful. He decided that, as prestigious as it was, he did not want to take to path of academic training. he would rather follow the example of the Drigung ngakpas and spend his life wandering and practising in the wilds. He had had enough of rules and monastic discipline, and wanted to regulate his own life according to his own decisions. It was not an easy thing to leave the gompa, because like most ecclesiastical dignitaries, he was a focus for lay donations and his departure would not have been welcomed by the bursar or the other monastic officials. So he decided to escape in secret on night, and never return. He left with five horses, provisions, personal texts and ritual implements. In order to put as much distance as possible between himself and the gompa he slept in caves during day-light hours and travelled at night. Eventually he reached the region of Kongpo where he was able to travel more openly, and speak with the people he met along the way. One ngakpa he met, invited him to journey with him to Lhasa in the hope of receiving an audience with HH Dala’i Lama. Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche thought that this was an excellent. They journeyed for several months practising as they travelled, but when they eventually arrived in Lhasa they were not able to gain an audience. Being frustrated in his wish to meet HH Dala’i Lama, Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche continued on his travels, and finally met his first important root teacher - Ko-gyong Rinpoche. He studied with Ko-gyong Rinpoche for three years, but then he died. In his last words he emphasised the need to go beyond ritual practice. He instructed Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche to concentrate on the inner meaning of the teaching rather than remaining stuck at the level of outer performance. He told Yeshé Dorje Rinpoche that, if he was successful in his practice, they would meet again; but in his later years there was no sign of his re-appearance. There was however an indication that the re-union could occur at some other level. This is the most likely possibility as Ko-gyong Rinpoche attained the rainbow body, and left nothing behind but hair, nails and nasal septum. Lamas who take rainbow body sometimes do not take incarnation for long periods of time.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Klein

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 07:28:07 PM »
It's very unfortunate that a Buddhist practioner would put down another lineage of Buddhism. It contradicts the teachings of compassion. What's worse is that it promotes schism. How can the entire lineage with so many illustrious and erudite dharma masters be wrong. If they are, they would not have the power to reincarnate as high lamas over and over again.

Thaimonk is so right. Why does CTA remain silent with such uncalled for remarks? Why does CTA practise double standards?

DharmaDefender

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2011, 07:48:38 PM »
Ive just rewatched the video. A few things stick out:

- Yeshe Dorje followed the Dalai Lama as he walked, so hes not just anybody
- he was known for controlling the weather. I know controlling the weather isnt exactly highbrow stuff but coupled with the info found by WB, I cant help but think maybe theres more to what he says. Plus, its Chinese whispers - this old blokes recalling from decades ago, so maybe his memorys a bit fuzzy and hes distorted by Yeshe Dorjes said.

WB, maybe it really is a case of APPEARING to sow the seeds of disharmony.

At this point my gripes not so much with Yeshe Dorje but the idiot CTA with their double standards, and not applying the same tight grip on lamas of other lineages, like they do on lamas of the Gelug tradition. If your going to govern Tibet, be FAIR to ALL Tibetans.

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 07:12:41 AM »
Dear Dharma Defender,

The fact that the CTA exercises double standards is exactly the reason why Tibet and the Tibetan diaspora is in the situation it is today - homeless and landless. I personally feel that it is a good thing that HH the Dalai Lama has retired from politics and i hope that the new incumbent Lobsang Sangay manages to pull Tibet forward into the 21st Century, though it will be quite a gargantuan tasks - to overcome the partisan and parochial mindset of the CTA in general. Let's pray for them.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 08:10:47 PM »
If HHDL is suppose to be representing all Buddhist school, this does not bring good light to HHDL. Because by saying one school, in this case Gelug, is not reliable, then you could conclude that taking teaching from HHDL is not reliable because he is from Gelug primarily.

This also brings bad light to Nyingmapas as all school of Buddhsim is about the developing compassion, tolerant, harmony and wisdom to all sentient beings. Politically not correct, spiritually also not correct. Some thing the CTA's ought to straighten out if their goal is to bend all Tibetan together. What is actually the CTA's goal???

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2011, 07:54:22 PM »
Dear Dharma Defender,

The fact that the CTA exercises double standards is exactly the reason why Tibet and the Tibetan diaspora is in the situation it is today - homeless and landless. I personally feel that it is a good thing that HH the Dalai Lama has retired from politics and i hope that the new incumbent Lobsang Sangay manages to pull Tibet forward into the 21st Century, though it will be quite a gargantuan tasks - to overcome the partisan and parochial mindset of the CTA in general. Let's pray for them.

While Tibetan Buddhist have been the best "export" from Tibet, it has also been their downfall. I have heard many Tibetan friends explain that the government's entire focus on religion, for hundreds of years, has been what has kept them from development and growth in other much more important (and much needed!) areas such as education, welfare and providing good opportunities to their own people. After all, which other country in the world these days focuses so much of their energy issuing "wanted" lists for people practising a certain deity, or enforcing religious bans? And all this at the expense of developing their own people, providing competitive education and opportunities?
 
Yes, it is double standards, and worrying about internal politics within spiritual sects that has taken up so much of their time. I do actually look forward to seeing how the new kalon tripa will do things differently now that there is finally some sort of separate between church and state within the Tibetan exile community. It's about time they start to look big and beyond their small internal issues - these will never help them compete on a world stage.

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 06:19:50 AM »
i do agree that it's not so much that this greatly accomplished master, Yeshe Dorje Rinpoche, has advised his students not to take Gelug teachings seriously, but that double standards are being practiced here against Shugden practitioners who hold strongly the teachings of Je Tsongkapa's lineage.

However the best way to counter the negative advice of Yeshe Dorje Rinpoche, is for Shugden practitioners to show that they have strong knowledge of the unequalled teachings of Je Tsongkapa, and through practicing his teachings. like the Lamrim(especially his three principle aspects of the Path - renunciation, bodhicitta and correct view of emptiness ), show how such great Dharma can transform them into caring compassionate people whose sole purpose is to benefit all sentient beings.

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Nyingma Yeshe Dorje advises students not to take Gelug teachings seriously
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 06:30:42 PM »
I have another view of this little video. If this Nyingma Lama is as high as he said to be, perhaps his message was misconstrued by the westerner as well. How do we know that the westerner really heard Yeshe Dorje utter those exact words. It could be just an interpretation of that guy.

However, having said this, it is not unusual for Nyingma Lamas to put down Gelugs due to a long history of rivalry since the time of the Great Fifth Dalai Lama. So up to today, the Nyingma do not view the Gelugs favorably especially in their stronghold in Nepal. This still does not negate the unfair slack that Gelug teachers receive for many issues that Lamas of other traditions can easily get away with.