Author Topic: Temples discouraging their members to practice  (Read 14386 times)

dondrup

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2011, 10:04:32 AM »
By putting up a notice to ban the practice of Dorje Shugden and saying that Dorje Shugden is a spirit creates such a negative and publicity about Tibetan Buddhism. It creates a lot of confusion in the public or those not in the know about Buddhism.  Why are Buddhists practising Dorje Shugden if Dorje Shugden is a “spirit”?  If Dorje Shugden is a spirit, this Temple should likewise put up notices to stop all practitioners from practising all other spirits in the spirits realm! Why the biasness?

Buddhism is a religion where practitioners have total freedom to accept what was taught by Lord Buddha.  If his temple can stop or instruct its practitioners from practising what the practitioners want, what form of Buddhism is this Temple propagating?  Temple can advise but cannot BAN people from practising.  Where is the freedom of religion?  Where is the freedom of human right?

Dorje Shugden is a fully enlightened Buddha.  What heavy negative karma to say that He is a spirit? What heavy negative karma is the temple creating by stopping sincere Dorje Shugden practitioners from propitiating Dorje Shugden? Instead of propagating Dharma, this temple creates schism among the practitioners.

Galen, thank you for highlighting this notice.  If only we can put up and distribute the Letters from DS.com to the World  just next to the notice to educate the public about Dorje Shugden!

DharmaSpace

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2011, 04:05:56 PM »
It is very funny that people rather focus on politics than doing their practise. Just like how a lama said if we put down other people's practises it makes us feel good and we feel we are right. If they focus on their meditations more instead of putting up this stupid signs they might actually would have gaine some kind of results.


Galen

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 06:20:30 PM »
What have DS practitioners done to be banned from going into a temple? I don't understand. Killing someone in the temple? Stealing from the temple? If DS practitioners are so bad, I think the temple should try to help them instead of pushing them away.

Totally agree with you that a temple should help the people to learn the dharma and transform their mind. And Buddhism is very logical. If they disallow their members to practice DS, then they should explain to their members logically. I doubt there is a logic to it. Hehe.


tsangpakarpo

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2011, 07:38:56 AM »
Yes if temples are built for the benefit of the people at large, banning any practices with baseless evidences is really uncalled for. A temple/dharma centre is there for us to seek solace and to PRACTICE the DHARMA. In recent times, people are using these places of worship for reasons of political and personal gains.

Very, very saddening...

Until today, there are no solid proof that practicing Dorje Shugden will harm us. Personally, I only see improvement and nothing negative when I rely on Dorje Shugden. Yes, HHDL is highly revered but we ourselves must also use our brains to think! There might just be a deeper understanding/meaning in the words of HHDL...contemplation is the key!


diamond girl

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2011, 11:15:09 AM »
By putting up a notice to ban the practice of Dorje Shugden and saying that Dorje Shugden is a spirit creates such a negative and publicity about Tibetan Buddhism. It creates a lot of confusion in the public or those not in the know about Buddhism.  Why are Buddhists practising Dorje Shugden if Dorje Shugden is a “spirit”?  If Dorje Shugden is a spirit, this Temple should likewise put up notices to stop all practitioners from practising all other spirits in the spirits realm! Why the biasness?

Buddhism is a religion where practitioners have total freedom to accept what was taught by Lord Buddha.  If his temple can stop or instruct its practitioners from practising what the practitioners want, what form of Buddhism is this Temple propagating?  Temple can advise but cannot BAN people from practising.  Where is the freedom of religion?  Where is the freedom of human right?

Dorje Shugden is a fully enlightened Buddha.  What heavy negative karma to say that He is a spirit? What heavy negative karma is the temple creating by stopping sincere Dorje Shugden practitioners from propitiating Dorje Shugden? Instead of propagating Dharma, this temple creates schism among the practitioners.
...

Dondrup, you have definitely raise a good point about this temple and its bias signage, that it cause schism. When I first read this thread it was appalling to know that a place of worship would so such things. Now that I have read more comments here, it is bad karma for them especially when what they cause is confusion in the minds of people. This is even more so with people who are new and do not know the politics. By having such signs it draws attention to the politics in religion which I personally feel is destructive to one's spiritual journey. 

Poonlarp

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2011, 11:30:53 AM »
This is extremely contradicting with what HHDL has mentioned about, everybody in the earth has their way to find happiness, and it's ok to find your own suitable religion.

Practicing an enlighten beings who has recognized by 5th DL is worshiping spirit? This is completely nonsense.

pgdharma

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2011, 03:57:28 PM »
A temple is a place for people to seek solace and help. A place for people to pray and get connected with the divine. It is uncalled for to put a notice like this. Why make a big issue about Dorje Shugden?Where is the prove that Dorje Shugden is a spirit? Why not make big issue of other spirits? How can praying to Dorje Shugden who is recognized by the 5th Dalai Lama as an enlightened being be harmful? This is illogical. It is a shame that a place of worship will go into such extend and do such thing! :'(

Vajraprotector

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2011, 06:07:18 PM »
What do you think of the below?

Local People & the Monastery
Since the establishment of the Tharpa Choling Monastery by the Domo Geshe Rinpoche Ngawang Kalsang, the relation between with Tharpa Choling Monastery and the people of Kalimpong was warm, cordial and harmonious. The devotion towards the deity Dorje Shugden defamed the monastery, but finally reconciled with its sincere ban of practicing and giving devotion to the Dorje Shugden after the rightful and genuine reincarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche was found through prophecy and divination given by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama and his enthronement.

Administration of the Monastery
...However, sometimes, the Tibetan Government in Exile supervises the administration in the absence of Domo Geshe Rinpoche or the new reincarnation of the Rinpoche is too young to take over the administration responsibilities of the monastery. However, at present the monastery is under the direct supervision of the Private Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Department of Religion and Culture, Central Tibetan Administration...

Link: http://tharpacholing.org/index.php/component/content/category/9-site-contents


Discipline of the Monastery
 The monastery's discipline is based on the regulations laid down by His Holiness the Great 13th Dalai Lama in abidance with the rules of the Vinaya, the spiritual code of conducts.

Link: http://tharpacholing.org/index.php/history


Monks of a monastery practices a protector whom the founder of the monastery is strongly connected to is wrong?!

Sincere devotion to a protector defamed a monastery? A ban can be sincere?

Why is it that the Private Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Department of Religion and Culture can has bigger authority than the lineage Guru/founder of the monastery?

Why did they use the 13th Dalai Lama and not the 14th ? (May be because the 14th Dalai Lama wrote "Melody of the Unceasing Vajra" at Domo Geshe Rinpoche's Dungkar Monastery?)

But the 13th Dalai Lama proclaimed that he had met Je Tsongkhapa after meeting Domo Geshe Rinpoche. So how can Tsongkhapa's protector practice be wrong?

thor

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2011, 09:09:26 AM »
I wish the temples would focus on their core purpose of spreading their religion, beliefs and practices to benefit others. The ban has shifted priorities from real spiritual practice to politicking, jockeying for position and favor, and being more concerned about outer rather than inner practice.

Buddhism has always been about bettering oneself through the practice of mind transformation, selflessness, guru devotion and being of benefit to others. It has never been about being politically correct, nor about following the leader of Tibet. One's Guru would always take priority over everything else, regardless of how difficult the situation seems.

The ban is contradictory to the fundamental tenets of Vajrayana Buddhism in so many ways. In particular, the execution of the ban is cruel, lacking kindness or compassion. I wish that people would see through the edict laid down by the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Administration, and make constant and heartfelt appeals for the ban to be   lifted. Just look at the growth of the Shugden monasteries, and growing support for the Shugden movement as time passes. How is what they are doing wrong? How is anyone being negatively affected by the practice of Shugden? Instead, the lineage is growing stronger, and the principles of guru devotion, holding of commitments, real dharma practice are being upheld. Is that bad? Please do something while we still can.

Galen

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2011, 02:39:25 PM »
What do you think of the below?

Local People & the Monastery
Since the establishment of the Tharpa Choling Monastery by the Domo Geshe Rinpoche Ngawang Kalsang, the relation between with Tharpa Choling Monastery and the people of Kalimpong was warm, cordial and harmonious. The devotion towards the deity Dorje Shugden defamed the monastery, but finally reconciled with its sincere ban of practicing and giving devotion to the Dorje Shugden after the rightful and genuine reincarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche was found through prophecy and divination given by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama and his enthronement.

Administration of the Monastery
...However, sometimes, the Tibetan Government in Exile supervises the administration in the absence of Domo Geshe Rinpoche or the new reincarnation of the Rinpoche is too young to take over the administration responsibilities of the monastery. However, at present the monastery is under the direct supervision of the Private Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Department of Religion and Culture, Central Tibetan Administration...

Link: http://tharpacholing.org/index.php/component/content/category/9-site-contents


Discipline of the Monastery
 The monastery's discipline is based on the regulations laid down by His Holiness the Great 13th Dalai Lama in abidance with the rules of the Vinaya, the spiritual code of conducts.

Link: http://tharpacholing.org/index.php/history


Monks of a monastery practices a protector whom the founder of the monastery is strongly connected to is wrong?!

Sincere devotion to a protector defamed a monastery? A ban can be sincere?

Why is it that the Private Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Department of Religion and Culture can has bigger authority than the lineage Guru/founder of the monastery?

Why did they use the 13th Dalai Lama and not the 14th ? (May be because the 14th Dalai Lama wrote "Melody of the Unceasing Vajra" at Domo Geshe Rinpoche's Dungkar Monastery?)

But the 13th Dalai Lama proclaimed that he had met Je Tsongkhapa after meeting Domo Geshe Rinpoche. So how can Tsongkhapa's protector practice be wrong?


The monks who were practicing the protector practice by their founder is right but the HHDL and his team is trying to make themselves look good and and gain support where the HHDL has found the reincarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche and this made the relationship between the local people and monastery become better i.e. support of the local people.

I have also heard that there is another reincarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche who was found by Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche and now resides in Shar Gaden. How this happened was one night Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche had a dream of the previous Domo Geshe Rinpoche asking Trijang Rinpoche to look for his reincarnation and take care of him. The next day when Trijang Rinpoche woke up, he was told of the news that Domo Geshe Rinpoche had passed away. So now we have 2 Domo Geshe Rinpoches who practices different protector practice?

The new Domo Geshe Rinpoche will be enthroned soon in Shar Gaden.


harrynephew

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2012, 10:19:50 PM »
Sorry guys for bringing this ugly side of life up on your face again.

Humans are by choice opportunists for bad media, people would go through all sorts in order to get other people into trouble in order to get benefits from them.

The TGIE back then started the ban which was very harsh on the 3 great monasteries of the Gelug tradition. Afterwhich it took a wrong turn by setting bad precedence banning people both lay and Sangha from these monasteries. Who are they to decide on spiritual practices of others?

I read this from another thread and found it very relevant:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1595.0

Bhikku Yeshe Sangye:

"Many, many, many of the older Lama Yeshe students have gone underground with their practices of Dorje Shugden. Some like me do not really go to the centers here in the USA anymore. They will not abandon their practice of Dorje Shugden because of their great devotion to Lama Yeshe and are somewhat flabbergasted at the direction that some new FPMT centers’ are going with their arrogant witch hunts. What is important to remember is JUST BECAUSE YOU ATTEND THE DALAI LAMA’S TEACHINGS, OR HAVE TAKEN PHOTOS WITH HH DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY VALIDATE YOU AS A SPIRITUAL POLICEMAN AND GO ON WITCH-HUNTS. We must practice the essence of what HH teaches as did Lama Yeshe, which are tolerance, compassion, forgiveness and not ever slandering any lama, dharma, lineage or practice. As the karmic retributions will fall onto us. We should never mislead new FPMT students toward this line of thought. We are destroying our organization slowly if we do so."

Source: http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2008/10/does-lama-zopas-closeness-with-hh-dalai.html


Centres of 'Dharma' all around the world uses this suppression against other traditions and to over power others. This has not been unheard of especially with the Dorje Shugden issue. Lay people with personal agendas end up being Buddhist polices running around different centres with their 'decree' of a picture with some CTA official and put centres and practitioners down.

What has CTA achieved so far if you ask me is a bunch of monsters around the world emulating the ugly side of CTA itself.

CTA boys, it is time to wake up and grow up to be good examples of your dying Tibet.

H1N1
Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

DharmaDefender

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2012, 01:12:08 PM »
Sorry guys for bringing this ugly side of life up on your face again.

Humans are by choice opportunists for bad media, people would go through all sorts in order to get other people into trouble in order to get benefits from them.

The TGIE back then started the ban which was very harsh on the 3 great monasteries of the Gelug tradition. Afterwhich it took a wrong turn by setting bad precedence banning people both lay and Sangha from these monasteries. Who are they to decide on spiritual practices of others?

I read this from another thread and found it very relevant:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1595.0

Bhikku Yeshe Sangye:

"Many, many, many of the older Lama Yeshe students have gone underground with their practices of Dorje Shugden. Some like me do not really go to the centers here in the USA anymore. They will not abandon their practice of Dorje Shugden because of their great devotion to Lama Yeshe and are somewhat flabbergasted at the direction that some new FPMT centers’ are going with their arrogant witch hunts. What is important to remember is JUST BECAUSE YOU ATTEND THE DALAI LAMA’S TEACHINGS, OR HAVE TAKEN PHOTOS WITH HH DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY VALIDATE YOU AS A SPIRITUAL POLICEMAN AND GO ON WITCH-HUNTS. We must practice the essence of what HH teaches as did Lama Yeshe, which are tolerance, compassion, forgiveness and not ever slandering any lama, dharma, lineage or practice. As the karmic retributions will fall onto us. We should never mislead new FPMT students toward this line of thought. We are destroying our organization slowly if we do so."

Source: http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2008/10/does-lama-zopas-closeness-with-hh-dalai.html


Centres of 'Dharma' all around the world uses this suppression against other traditions and to over power others. This has not been unheard of especially with the Dorje Shugden issue. Lay people with personal agendas end up being Buddhist polices running around different centres with their 'decree' of a picture with some CTA official and put centres and practitioners down.

What has CTA achieved so far if you ask me is a bunch of monsters around the world emulating the ugly side of CTA itself.

CTA boys, it is time to wake up and grow up to be good examples of your dying Tibet.

H1N1


Harry you bring up a good point about people using the ban for their own agendas. My own centre was broken up into two because one faction ( Ihate the word) wants to keep the practice our lama gave us, and the other would rather follow the Dalai Lama... not that thats a bad thing but really, why isnt my guru enough. Anyway.

What I have noticed in the dynamics at my once-whole centre is that people used the ban as an excuse to go on a witch hunt. More than once did it remind me me of Nazi Germany or China under Mao, if thats not too strong a comparison. In those times, fear ruled and people were governed by their fear of their neighbours, parents, children, friends, reporting on them and lalbelling them as capitalists, Jewish sympathisers, black marketeers...

The CTA pushing this ban pushed people to give in to their habituations and create more negative karma, instead of fighting their habituations and using it as an opportunity to practise compassion. Skilful methods gone wrong? Perhaps the CTA isnt enlightened afterall...

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2012, 01:53:07 PM »
Quote
My own centre was broken up into two because one faction ( Ihate the word) wants to keep the practice our lama gave us, and the other would rather follow the Dalai Lama...


Very sorry to hear that.  :(

triesa

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 03:42:26 PM »
Sorry guys for bringing this ugly side of life up on your face again.

Humans are by choice opportunists for bad media, people would go through all sorts in order to get other people into trouble in order to get benefits from them.

The TGIE back then started the ban which was very harsh on the 3 great monasteries of the Gelug tradition. Afterwhich it took a wrong turn by setting bad precedence banning people both lay and Sangha from these monasteries. Who are they to decide on spiritual practices of others?

I read this from another thread and found it very relevant:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1595.0

Bhikku Yeshe Sangye:

"Many, many, many of the older Lama Yeshe students have gone underground with their practices of Dorje Shugden. Some like me do not really go to the centers here in the USA anymore. They will not abandon their practice of Dorje Shugden because of their great devotion to Lama Yeshe and are somewhat flabbergasted at the direction that some new FPMT centers’ are going with their arrogant witch hunts. What is important to remember is JUST BECAUSE YOU ATTEND THE DALAI LAMA’S TEACHINGS, OR HAVE TAKEN PHOTOS WITH HH DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY VALIDATE YOU AS A SPIRITUAL POLICEMAN AND GO ON WITCH-HUNTS. We must practice the essence of what HH teaches as did Lama Yeshe, which are tolerance, compassion, forgiveness and not ever slandering any lama, dharma, lineage or practice. As the karmic retributions will fall onto us. We should never mislead new FPMT students toward this line of thought. We are destroying our organization slowly if we do so."

Source: http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2008/10/does-lama-zopas-closeness-with-hh-dalai.html


Centres of 'Dharma' all around the world uses this suppression against other traditions and to over power others. This has not been unheard of especially with the Dorje Shugden issue. Lay people with personal agendas end up being Buddhist polices running around different centres with their 'decree' of a picture with some CTA official and put centres and practitioners down.

What has CTA achieved so far if you ask me is a bunch of monsters around the world emulating the ugly side of CTA itself.

CTA boys, it is time to wake up and grow up to be good examples of your dying Tibet.

H1N1


I agree with you H1N1. The worst is I believe many of these anti-Shugden activists are just following the wind, go with the flow thingi...........they actually just "hear say" and enrol themselves on the DL camp.

I hope Galen will help to put a big sticker of DorjeShugden.com right next to the signage of the temple so that people can find out more. Knowledge is powerful, at least it can stir some senses into their ignorance minds when they check out the website.

Om

Ensapa

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Re: Temples discouraging their members to practice
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2012, 01:41:22 PM »
Here comes the killer question about such temples: how on earth will they know if every person who walk past the center's doors is a Dorje Shugden practitioner or not if they choose not to reveal whether or not they are? Is there a mandatory background check on them? Do they have some clairvoyant senior member sitting in a chamber behind the center that will say yes or no to whether or not the person walking through the door is a Dorje Shugden practitioner or not? If they dont, what is the use of the sign? A nice declaration of spiritual hypocrisy?