It is not working out, so how long more to wait?

[hope rainbow]

Perhaps one of His Holiness' intention is to offer Dorje Shugden a larger platform than only the Gelug platform?

Let's think of it, without the ban, Dorje Shugden would be perceived as a  kind of a "secret" protector of the Gelug school, and only that.
Yet, today, the Protector has made it even into the streets of Thailand... not exactly a Gelug "territory"!

[Mana]

Perhaps one of His Holiness' intention is to offer Dorje Shugden a larger platform than only the Gelug platform?

Let's think of it, without the ban, Dorje Shugden would be perceived as a  kind of a "secret" protector of the Gelug school, and only that.
Yet, today, the Protector has made it even into the streets of Thailand... not exactly a Gelug "territory"!

I like the thoughts expressed here. It would remain a Gelug Secret Protector and be closely guarded. Before the ban, the Gelug teachers were very strict with this practice. Because of the ban it is arguably the most 'Tibetan' deity in the world now.

Mana

[yontenjamyang]

HR, is that true? In Thailand? Have you seen it? I am really surprised!

If this is true and I am not doubting you, then it is really working. HHDL is really skillful then. Like Nelson Mandela, and Gandhi, Dorje Shugden is now the superstar among the underdogs. Soon, like them He will be THE SUPERSTAR for all.

[Big Uncle]

Perhaps one of His Holiness' intention is to offer Dorje Shugden a larger platform than only the Gelug platform?

Let's think of it, without the ban, Dorje Shugden would be perceived as a  kind of a "secret" protector of the Gelug school, and only that.
Yet, today, the Protector has made it even into the streets of Thailand... not exactly a Gelug "territory"!

I think Buddhism as a whole is too vast and diverse to be united by a single leader. Even within Tibetan Buddhism, the variations on the presentation of Buddha's teachings is too vast to be held under a single leader and  its true, we are further from the original purpose set out by the Dalai Lama than ever before. If we silly foreigners can see it, why can't the Dalai Lama with all his clairvoyance, training in logic and reasoning see this as well?

I think it is just one of the more plausible explanations behind the ban. However, if this is the reason behind the ban, it is obviously not working out. The ban is not uniting the different tradition but tearing the Gelug tradition apart. But one thing is for sure, we can see the true colors the great Dorje Shugden Lamas and practitioners and how strong they are.

But anyhow, HR, I do like your hypothesis. I read somewhere on this website that the previous Karmapa did prophesied that 'everyone will have to practice Dorje Shugden in the future.' I don't know how that's going to happen but I rejoice because he is Manjushri and has the tremendous ability to assist degenerate practitioners of our time.

[hope rainbow]

HR, is that true? In Thailand? Have you seen it? I am really surprised!

If this is true and I am not doubting you, then it is really working. HHDL is really skillful then. Like Nelson Mandela, and Gandhi, Dorje Shugden is now the superstar among the underdogs. Soon, like them He will be THE SUPERSTAR for all.

I have not seen this myself, and I was also surprised, here is a post about it:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1472.0

[Lawrence L]

In order to achieve unity, is there a must or need to suppress anything that is different from you?
By using the suppressing way, are we going to achieve real unity?

For now, i see there are conflicts among us, among the Gelug school. So where is the unity among the whole Tibetan Buddhism by eliminating Dorje Shugden? There are doubts between the gurus and the students, conflicts between the followers, Sangha, monastries and etc. I don't see any unity from the past until today!!

This clearly show us that by suppressing, we gain no unity! We gain suffering, we gain endless conflicts!

The real and true unity formed by respecting and accepting each other, unity arrised when harmony and trust exist! If you are a Buddhist, you should understand this. So why are you still believing by eliminating/suppressing someone or something could lead us to unity?

Are you a real Buddhist? What is the core of Buddhism?

I guess these are good questions to ask yourself back in this brand new year.

[Ensapa]

In order to achieve unity, is there a must or need to suppress anything that is different from you?
By using the suppressing way, are we going to achieve real unity?

For now, i see there are conflicts among us, among the Gelug school. So where is the unity among the whole Tibetan Buddhism by eliminating Dorje Shugden? There are doubts between the gurus and the students, conflicts between the followers, Sangha, monastries and etc. I don't see any unity from the past until today!!

This clearly show us that by suppressing, we gain no unity! We gain suffering, we gain endless conflicts!

The real and true unity formed by respecting and accepting each other, unity arrised when harmony and trust exist! If you are a Buddhist, you should understand this. So why are you still believing by eliminating/suppressing someone or something could lead us to unity?

Are you a real Buddhist? What is the core of Buddhism?

I guess these are good questions to ask yourself back in this brand new year.

yup but the other question is this: is temporary suffering worth bearing for greater benefit? In samsara for something good  to come our way we need to go  through a lot of unhappiness and suffering. Things that come without much effort or suffering normally will not last. So since we are in samsara, i would like to view that the suffering that Dorje Shugden practitioners are undergoing now will give birth to knowledgeable, stable and powerful practitioners who will uphold and spread Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition far and wide. Maybe it is time  to really see the bigger picture?

[Positive Change]

It is said that the reason why Dalai Lama bans Dorje Shugden is because Dalai Lama wants to unite the whole Tibetan Buddhism, thus he has to remove any practice that seems too bias/sectarian towards a single sect, and in this case Dorje Shugden has to be sacrificed because He is too "Gelug".

Now, it has been decades that the ban has been reinforced, but there is not a single sign of consolidation of all sects of Tibetan Buddhism, Nyingma Kagyu Sakya stiil carry out there own business with their own Dharma kings, without paying much attention to the Dalai Lama. One prominent example is on the choice of Karmapa, apparently the factions that supported Sharmapa's choice is as strong as the faction that supported Dalai Lama's endorsement.

So, obviously it is not working out, the plan to unite all sects, in fact it went the opposite way. Perhaps it is high time to scrap the grandiose idea already? How long more should we wait?

If this is indeed what HHDL is doing (which I do not think is), what makes it different from all other dictators in the world. Crushing a single minority to create the majority has never and will never work. Why? It creates disharmony, distrust and anger... all seeds that will be implanted for generations and the only saplings that will emerge from these seeds are exactly those elements multi fold, to a point where sometimes the younger generation do not even know what they are "fighting for" or "fighting against" but merely a preconceived notion of a bygone era. SAD!

Would it not be more practical to just stop it at its roots. Stomp it out! And just sow much better seeds... easier said then done I suppose in this day and age with so much self made suffering and delusional states of minds.

To conclude I believe HHDL has a much higher motivation. Perhaps one, we regular people cannot see or comprehend. However, the results speak for itself. The results being, in having the ban, the practice of The King, though sometimes painfully sad to some to practice is indeed increasing... increasing much more than it would have without the ban. What is the bigger picture in this instance? Think! After all, isnt HHDL the emanation of Chenrezig/Avalokiteshvara, the Buddha of Compassion?

[ilikeshugden]

This is a pretty new topic to me. I didn't think of it as the Dalai Lama wanting to unite all Tibetan Buddhism. I think it is very silly to unite all the schools by taking apart his own school of Buddhism. It is like saying a white guy is too black. LOL!

I hope that we do not have to wait so long for the ban to be lifted. It is not good at all. I think maybe the Dalai Lama is not using this ban to unite Buddhism. I think it is for the Chinese to unite to practice Dorje Shugden as they ( ignorantly ) think that the practice would harm His Holiness.

[Zach]

Why didnt the Dalai lama decide to reform Dorje shugdens reputation instead of slight it ?

[hope rainbow]

Why didnt the Dalai lama decide to reform Dorje shugdens reputation instead of slight it ?

Perhaps because that would have only gone noticed within a small circle?
The ban instead attracts much more attention, Medias give more coverage to a ban and to the contrast that it creates in the figure of the Dalai Lama.
Let's not forget that Dorje Shugden was a relatively obscure and un-known Protector before the ban.

[Losang_Tenpa]

I can't help but think that there are probably many other ways to 'promote' Dorje Shugden rather than one that involves people getting hurt.....

[Losang_Tenpa]

I also think it sets a dangerous precedent if we start to beleive that creating negative press brings more people to the Dharma. This would open the flood gates for many to engage in destructive behavior and label it 'spreading the Dharma'.

Just my 2 cents.

[Zach]

I can't help but think that there are probably many other ways to 'promote' Dorje Shugden rather than one that involves people getting hurt.....

I agree Tenpa-la

[Gypsy]

I don't think His Holliness is trying to unite all Buddhism school into one. The reason why there are thousands over Buddha teachings for us to learn is because each of us has different characters, learning skills, preference, habituation etc and with so many approaches, there must be one teaching suits you.

As long as we have strong faith in the three Jewel, be loyal to your guru, transform yourself to be better, clearly understand the law of cause and effect and it prohibited you from doing bad things because you know karma comes back. Be selfless and serve dharma all the way. No matter what religion your are or even a free thinker, at the very least, just be a kind, compassionate and selfless person. Of course, with the help of spirituality, is a bonus. Do not let the ban or whatever political controversy going on out there stop you from having faith with your own belief.