Holy temples to contact if you want to get rid of Dorje Shugden statues/images

[Lawrence L]

I respect the Dalai Lama, but sorry, it's just too hard for me to accpet this.

How could a Buddha suddenly turned to be an evil spirit? How could the Dalai Lama made prayers to a Buddha in the past and now the Buddha is an evil spirit? And the statue you used to respect so that much, you see the statue as a Buddha, and now you going to send the Buddha off or even just throw it away?

Even after I grow up to be a young man, i didn't throw my old toys away and send them off to someone who I know he/she wouldn't appreciate the toys. And what Im talking about now is a Buddha statue that you used to make prayers to, a Buddha statue you used to gain energy, aspiration and hope from.

It just goes to show the quality of the practitioners today: no loyalty or stability to their practice. Will these people achieve enlightenment? How to benefit all beings if they take sides and follow the 'flow' on influential forces and abandon practices for the sake of being "correct"?

When HHDL does it I am very sure he has  his reasons, but when laypeople who know next to  nothing do it i am pretty sure they are doing it out of blind faith, fear and ignorance. So sad to see how people can be so disloyal to their own lineage and protectors. How can they even hope to achieve results or have blessings?

Yes i agree with your question. Are these people able to achieve enlightenment and how they going to benefit all beings if they follow the flow in this degenerated era! During Buddha Shakyamuni's time, He debate to get rid all the 'influential forces' and disseminate the Dharma that last for 2500 years. Even Shakyamuni Himself need to debate, need to keep His mind clear when comes to doubt/question from the people! If we practice Dharma out of blind faith, it will bring us no where. Our mind will goes up and down endlessly. Eventually, we have no Buddha in our mind.

[Ensapa]

[quote author=Lawrence L link=topic=1542.msg20985#msg20985 date=1326136979
Yes i agree with your question. Are these people able to achieve enlightenment and how they going to benefit all `beings if they follow the flow in this degenerated era! During Buddha Shakyamuni's time, He debate to get rid all the 'influential forces' and disseminate the Dharma that last for 2500 years. Even Shakyamuni Himself need to debate, need to keep His mind clear when comes to doubt/question from the people! If we practice Dharma out of blind faith, it will bring us no where. Our mind will goes up and down endlessly. Eventually, we have no Buddha in our mind.
[/quote]

Why do you think there are so little people who are enlightened? The Buddha did not exactly debate but he provoked people and made them think deeper on what is really going on. He merely presented the universe and how it works in a way that people like us can understand so that we can make the right choices. He did debate with people who try to challenge him to make them realize as well. And he did explain patiently using logic because that is what people understand best.

When we believe in something without through investigation, why are we still calling ourselves Buddhist? Did the Buddha not call us to test things out and do research before believing?

[Positive Change]

Funnily this post makes me smile... why? Because these so called temples ask for the "demonic" artifacts back from people where they could easily just say, "chuck it in the bin". Perhaps there is some element of fear of negative repercussions? Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part seeing as they were the indirect cause of a family trying to get rid of such holy items to begin with... sigh!

[DharmaSpace]

Yes if Dorje Shugden is just an evil spirit why not destroy the statue instead of passing it on to a center, it could potentially harm others? The Dalai Lama ordered the holy and powerful DS statue to be moved to another place one year before the ban went into full swing in Gaden. I feel it was a gesture to protect the holy DS statue. Why protect it otherwise?

[Galen]

Yes if Dorje Shugden is just an evil spirit why not destroy the statue instead of passing it on to a center, it could potentially harm others? The Dalai Lama ordered the holy and powerful DS statue to be moved to another place one year before the ban went into full swing in Gaden. I feel it was a gesture to protect the holy DS statue. Why protect it otherwise?

Maybe they are afraid to destroy the statue as it may bring them bad luck! Hehe... So better send to someplace where someone else can destroy it. Give the responsibility to someone else.

However, the fact that the Dalai Lama ordered the Gaden DS statue to be moved to another place one year before the ban went into full swing does mean something. Maybe the Dalai Lama has bigger plans for DS. I believe so. Cos it makes no sense for the Dalai Lama move the statue for people to continue to worship it if his intention is to stop people from practicing DS. So, the motivation is much higher that only the Dalai Lama will know.

[harrynephew]

Yes if Dorje Shugden is just an evil spirit why not destroy the statue instead of passing it on to a center, it could potentially harm others? The Dalai Lama ordered the holy and powerful DS statue to be moved to another place one year before the ban went into full swing in Gaden. I feel it was a gesture to protect the holy DS statue. Why protect it otherwise?

Maybe they are afraid to destroy the statue as it may bring them bad luck! Hehe... So better send to someplace where someone else can destroy it. Give the responsibility to someone else.

However, the fact that the Dalai Lama ordered the Gaden DS statue to be moved to another place one year before the ban went into full swing does mean something. Maybe the Dalai Lama has bigger plans for DS. I believe so. Cos it makes no sense for the Dalai Lama move the statue for people to continue to worship it if his intention is to stop people from practicing DS. So, the motivation is much higher that only the Dalai Lama will know.

After contemplating this for a while, HHDL's action of gradually removing the statue from the Gaden Lachi was really an act to respect the monks of Gaden who are still practicing and it gives them a breather instead of an outright trashing of the holy DS statue, we wouldn't be here talking about it today!

We all know for a fact that the monks in Shar Gaden do not hate HHDL and still respects him even though they have navigated away from their own monastery. I guess you can harbor any sorta hate for HHDL for the good things he has done for the entire Tibetan world. One bad move does not condemn u to be a bad person or if anything dispise him.

We can only hope that one fine day the Three Great Seats will reunite again in harmony when the ban is lifted!

[Positive Change]

It is interesting to also note that so called “seasoned” Buddhist practitioners after many years of practice can still have something so ridiculous to ask or even contemplating “switching”. It shows the level of shallowness in practice to begin with. How to achieve any attainments with such flippant minds… this is really silly I find!

Firstly they doubt their Vajrayana Rinpoche then their Therevadan teacher’s advise and instead follow their lay friend’s advice… what have they learnt , if anything about Guru Devotion or anything for that matter?

How some people would so want a Dorje Shugden altar but are not permitted or cannot afford one and they just literally throw theirs away… sigh!

While on the subject of Dorje Shuden altar and image, check the amazing collection of pictures compiled here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10605

[dsiluvu]

I wonder what the holy temples are going to do with the returned statues/images? Maybe they send Dorje Shugden statues to the foundry and re-melt the metal and re-cast into a Nechung statue? But since the atoms of the metals are the same, re-melt and re-arranging the atoms of the metals does not remove the fact that the atoms are "evil atoms", so I hope they don't do that, because no matter what statue it is being re-casted into, it is still intrisically evil.

Hmmm....that means it is possible that some of the statues on the altars of these temples now are originally Dorje Shugden statues...so beware, devotees there may unknowingly pray to demons all these while...

if they didn't do that, then perhaps they are very kind to give away Dorje Shugden statues for free, so please contact these temples if you are in need to Dorje Shugden statues/images.

websites of the three holy temples in Singapore that you might just get free Dorje Shugden statues from:
http://www.casotac.com/
http://www.thekchencholing.org/
http://www.fpmtabc.org/

LOL! I love this thought -  if Dorje Shugden statues were melted and recast in to a different statue... it will still be Dorje Shugden and that Dorje Shugden is probably in their homes of those that invited the new statues, on their shrine and they a worshipping him daily! This would be so hilarious if it's true. Basically you cannot get rid of Dorje Shugden he just re-manifest and multiplies... the more you try to destroy him, the more DS grows!

But I think they will just keep him in one side because they are probably too afraid that they will get some bad luck or be cursed by the evils. Funny how a Dharma centre with "DHARMA PROTECTORS & BUDDHAS" would be afraid of 1 bad boy Dorje Shugden? I cannot help but just laugh at the illogical-ness of it all. For them to even request for the statues to be sent to their temples says it all. I mean think... if u were a true Buddhist and has taken refuge with the 3 jewels... then there really is nothing to fear right? So send him to any temple will do, why specifically these temples?

Yes for us Dorje Shugden lovers... now we know where to look for Dorje Shugden and invite him home Thank you!

[Ensapa]

It is interesting to also note that so called “seasoned” Buddhist practitioners after many years of practice can still have something so ridiculous to ask or even contemplating “switching”. It shows the level of shallowness in practice to begin with. How to achieve any attainments with such flippant minds… this is really silly I find!

Firstly they doubt their Vajrayana Rinpoche then their Therevadan teacher’s advise and instead follow their lay friend’s advice… what have they learnt , if anything about Guru Devotion or anything for that matter?

How some people would so want a Dorje Shugden altar but are not permitted or cannot afford one and they just literally throw theirs away… sigh!

While on the subject of Dorje Shuden altar and image, check the amazing collection of pictures compiled here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10605

Unfortunately, that actually reflects the mentality of a lot of people these days, who call themselves Buddhist, westerners and asians alike. They forgot what Buddhism really means: to investigate and illuminate against the darkness that is ignorance. The simplest way to get rid of ignorance is to investigate, study and to gain knowledge. When these knowledge is put into practice, wisdom arises. But many people these days who call themselves Buddhist are just content to hear things that pleases their ears, and not really the Dharma that they are supposed to practice as they dismiss that to be too heavy or "not for them" and they can choose from a buffet spread of Dharma teachings from all types of different traditions and keep hopping around which is fine, but all of them will eventually get challenging after a while and then they leave again, never even tasting the real Dharma or having any results.

I have a question: how do we know that we do not become like them? these are also the most likely candidates to actually become one of those people who dismiss and accept things out of superstition? They may look silly now, but it could be us if we do not do enough investigation, study, learning and knowledge. This post is also a reminder of how silly we are if we do not develop our understanding, logic and knowledge base. That is how I see it and that is how I do not want to represent our protector.

[Vajraprotector]

I have a question: how do we know that we do not become like them? these are also the most likely candidates to actually become one of those people who dismiss and accept things out of superstition? They may look silly now, but it could be us if we do not do enough investigation, study, learning and knowledge. This post is also a reminder of how silly we are if we do not develop our understanding, logic and knowledge base. That is how I see it and that is how I do not want to represent our protector.

You know you are not them if you have taken the time to check out your teacher, the teachings, and understood the basis of your practice, especially of the protector Dorje Shugden.

If you are not out there chasing after famous lamas, hoping to get initiations and blessings as quick fix for your miserable life problems, or blind faith because His Holiness is God, then be rest assured you won't turn out like them any time soon.

We live in the age of information, it's so easy to get info about who Dorje Shugden is online, books are also out, the controversy has appeared in numerous magazines, as well as news on TV, but people choose to believe propoganda or hear say because then they do need to put in effort to investigate. I can understand if they are Tibetan refugees who are uneducated and unexposed, living in Tibetan settlements. But Singaporeans? Wow, what a shame.

Anyway, may be I should go check out these centres and see if they will give me a Shugden statue as images of holy protectors are rare 

[Ensapa]

You know you are not them if you have taken the time to check out your teacher, the teachings, and understood the basis of your practice, especially of the protector Dorje Shugden.
I have! And I believe that people who are intelligent and who are educated should do so too, before they decide if Dorje Shugden is good or bad for them instead of just blindly jumping into the whole thing. I have done my research and I do not need a protector that will give me gifts and money, but I do eed a protector that will help me cultivate and attain Bodhicitta. And that is one of the main reasons why I stick to him.

If you are not out there chasing after famous lamas, hoping to get initiations and blessings as quick fix for your miserable life problems, or blind faith because His Holiness is God, then be rest assured you won't turn out like them any time soon.
You're kinda right. They tend to like to do those things for some reason. I dont know why. They would have no time to even touch a Dharma book but they have time to run for day-long initiations. Interesting indeed. Not criticising, but just evaluating their behaviour and motivations towards the whole thing. I find it sad and funny that these people want all these as a quick fix to their problems when that quick fix does not really exist.

We live in the age of information, it's so easy to get info about who Dorje Shugden is online, books are also out, the controversy has appeared in numerous magazines, as well as news on TV, but people choose to believe propoganda or hear say because then they do need to put in effort to investigate. I can understand if they are Tibetan refugees who are uneducated and unexposed, living in Tibetan settlements. But Singaporeans? Wow, what a shame.
Yes it is that inquisitiveness that many people these days lack because they just take things for granted. It is true that we live in the age of information, but all the same it causes people to take information for granted and when they do it makes them less smart and less investigative and they just want to blindly believe. Singaporeans, Americans, whatever, they are the same if they were pampered and all the information they have was spoon fed to them, and they never had to lift a finger to find out or verify.

Anyway, may be I should go check out these centres and see if they will give me a Shugden statue as images of holy protectors are rare 
We should probably raid those temples and relief them of Dorje Shugden statues. hehehe

Sometimes it is quite shocking to see certain behaviours that are deemed barbaric appearing in this day and age. But in the case of Singapore, it is very simple: if you were spoon fed information your whole life and you did not have to question them because everyone around you said it was true, why would you find out more? This is perhaps, the danger of the modern world. With that said, lets do pray that we will never end up in this way.