Author Topic: See monks being forced to swear in!  (Read 14232 times)

Mana

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See monks being forced to swear in!
« on: January 02, 2012, 10:56:12 PM »
Yes this is happening in today's day and age. Amazing restriction of one's religious freedom. Where is the freedom to practice one's choice of religion within Tibetan communities? They say the Chinese are curtailing their freedom, but the CTA is doing the same thing and to their own people. The sad thing for CTA is as they surpress Shugden, China is promoting it. The opposite result is happening where Shugden is growing at a tremendous rate due to the ban.

See monks forced to swear in against Shugden with a lay 'official' from CTA watching and other monks recording each individuals names.

In this rare video you will see the swearing in of monks in front of a thangka of Setrap. The irony is Setrap is one of the deities that abide within the Shugden mandala. Setrap and Shugden are close associates working for the protection of Dharma. If you don't swear in, you are excommunicated
: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10777

icy

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 01:26:52 AM »
I am sorry to say CTA has nothing much to do these days other than to bully Dorje Shugden practitioners.  Tibet is lost to China and they are unable to get independence hence they need to create a scrape goat on Dorje Shugden to distract the attention on them.  What a loser.

harrynephew

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 03:14:38 AM »
when you put your life into the hands of the monastery and become a monk, your preceptor, abbot and the entire Sangha is the refuge, companion and source of spiritual apirations and attainments. What we see in this video are lay people who obviously know nothing but to create havoc in this holy institution of learning.

Take time off to watch this video slowly and observe every single expression of the monk's faces and you can tell how much impatient they were to get it over with. Some of them just fiddling with their robes and stuff just to wait for time pass.

I'm just thinking to myself how the glorious abbots and Kensurs of this illustrious monastery was put down in order to get this swearing out done. I mean, how can u demean such an institution with your idealogy of getting monks to swaer out a sacred practice whom they've received from their Gurus.

With this event, other centres and institutions around the world who have given themselves the power or are too free to sit in their own centres copy this trade and become spiritual polices going around every Gelug Buddhist institution to tell u what u can and cannot do. How disgusting the CTA is as an example!

This is the first time I get to see it for myself and THANK?ALL MY GURUS i dont have to go through this ordeal!

We need to work harder and come together to co end all this. The old monks who had nothing else but to rely on the monastery were confused at what the CTA was doing. You could see how their hands shook while swearing their heart practice out.

I'm sure the protector Setrap must be rolling all his three eyes and thinking to himself why bring this mess into my palace???? U guys are staying in my mandala and so is Dorje Shugden!
Harry Nephew

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Big Uncle

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 07:31:59 AM »
How can they do this to these monks? How dare the stupid CTA officials come and tell the monastics that had been holding their vows all their lives, what to do. This really makes me angry that the monks are abused like that, especially the older monks. 

Who is going to fight for them? Who is going to defend and protect the old monks who are frail and unable to take being ostracized from their own community. If I were a member of the monastic, I would just walk out and into the doors of Shar Gaden. Well, I think they didn't have Shar Gaden back when they did this swearing in. If I could, I would go up to the officials and give each of them a tight slap for doing this. Well, that will only happen in my imagination. Maybe they should get the oracle to take trance of Setrap and see what he does. Sorry, evil thoughts again.

yontenjamyang

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 08:06:05 AM »
There is a saying.."Village Champion". These officials just cannot champion their cause globally. So they just want to be the "Village Champion". Sorry to say this but that is what it is. Bullying monks, young and old and causing schism in the Sangha is a great no no. And this is the mother of all Sangha. Do they know their vows?

This aside I see that now we have a "Dorje Shugden" Sangha and will rise up to be counted in these times of great spiritual need. "Do not worry -  soon the sun will shine".

kris

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 03:51:47 PM »
I watch this video with much sadness. When the monks to me that they are forced to swear in, not only that they are not allowed to practice Dorje Shugden in this lifetime, they also need to swear that they will not practice Him in ALL future lifetimes.

The monks shared with much much sadness and tears, that those refused to swear in, they are denied schools, food, hospitals, etc. I felt this is just an arrogant act of the CTA.

The monk also told us that, actually as a monk, they are not supposed swear in to anything at all. I don't understand why monks are not supposed to swear in. Can anyone tell me why? Is it because monks have taken in refuge and with that monks are not supposed to swear in? I am quite puzzled...

pgdharma

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 03:53:42 PM »
It is so sad that these monks are forced to swear in against Dorjes Shugden.  How can they do this to the monks especially the older monks who had no choice but forced into the swearing? Why didn’t they walk out? I guess they are too old and weak to fight back and do not want to be excommunicated. I wonder if they are still doing DS practice in secret.

I hope the ban will be lifted soon so that these monks’ sacrifices will not go in vain.

triesa

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 04:35:53 PM »
Saddness is beyong words.......I find this very rediculous, simply because some "lay" Tibetan officials is telling the "sangha" members to abandon their commitment to a protector practice passed down by their lineage gurus.

I truely believe those who swore in, are very confused. Especially the old and weak monks, they have no choice as it concerns their livelihood. Who wants to be excommunicated from the community and be deprived of all necessities?  These monks have left their country which was taken over by China to follow his HHDL in search for  their religion freedom, but now they are forced by HHDL and CTA to swear in to give up their protector practice. It is beyond comprehension!

I hope one day, these monks will take up the courage to join Shar Gaden, which is just next door.....as so many  high lamas and tulkus have joined, including the current HH Trijang Rinpoche, the ex 101th Gaden Tripa and HE Ganchen Rinpoche. We pray one day that the sanity will return when all is clear, and that the wall between Gaden Monastery and Shar Gaden could be demolished like the Berlin wall.....

shugdenprotect

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 05:15:34 PM »
With reference to kris statement that monks are not supposed to swear into anything: If this claim is accurate, it would mean that all the swearing in by all the monks are invalid. If the swearing in is invalid and is not recognized by the monastic rules and regulations, it would mean that these monks can actually go on practicing Dorje Shugden without breaking their ordination vows which is most important (keeping their vows) to the sangha.

Wow, if this could be true, I rejoice! Could anyone clarify kris’ question?

Nevertheless, even if the swearing in is not be recognized by monastic laws, I guess the sangha would still not practice openly out of respect for the Dalai Lama. This reflects on the high level of conduct of the sangha community. We must do our best to protect this holy community with our secular skill, knowledge and ability. One immediate way is to create greater awareness about the website dorjeshugden.net

Lawrence L

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 07:10:33 PM »
This is just a never-ending-story!

How if CTA ban another protector in the future using the same way, using the same reason? Are you going to say yes and let more and more people suffer?
Using a violence way to stop people from having their own religion freely is just somekind of nasty political means.Politic and religion should be seperated. Do not use religion as a tool.

Please stop the CTA from harming the freedom of all the monks!!

Ensapa

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 01:26:32 AM »
The CTA has never ever been efficient in taking care of Tibet and its people, and neither has it done  much to protect the Dharma. All it ever does is ban incarnations (Chankya Rolpa Dorje, Sharmapa) that somehow has gotten more wealth, influence and fame than itself. But of course, they cannot do anything to stop these incarnations from coming back, Chankya as Pabongkha and Sharmapa as himself.

And now they are setting a degenerate example influenced from countries with lesser Dharma knowledge: where lay people have the "right" to judge ordained members, as the lay people are the ones supporting them, therefore entitled to "control" the ordained sangha. Why not these lay people focus more on their Dharma practice rather than policing others?

vajrastorm

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 06:49:36 AM »
Imagine the Sangha having to swear to give up the practice of Dorje Shugden before Lord Setrap, the 'twin brother Protector' to Dorje Shugden, who, together with Dorje Shugden, have sworn to protect the Dharma! This is surely a parody of all things holy and sacred in Buddhism! To me this is as diabolical in impact as the Spanish Inquisition!

What would happen if this swearing-in ceremony were openly broadcast to the world in all its ludicrous yet poignant and anguishing details. Surely, the masses who support and fight for religious freedom would react in shock outrage! What worse act of negativity can one ever  commit than this, which results in schism amongst members of the Sangha and a split among family members. This is a heinous act of violation of an individual's right to freedom of worship. It counts as one of the five unbounded heinous actions or acts of immediate retribution.   

Zach

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 10:54:58 AM »
The more suffering that comes as a result of this madness the harder it gets to have a pure view of the Dalai lama these actions and their fruits are evil.

DharmaSpace

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 01:45:10 PM »
Quote
The more suffering that comes as a result of this madness the harder it gets to have a pure view of the Dalai lama these actions and their fruits are evil.

Hard for you but not for me, well if you see things so clearly about how evil the Dalai Lama is, explain

a) Why does Dalai Lama the great evil one, most sneaky and all kinds of nasty things let Trijang Rinpoche carry on practising Dorje Shugden, slip of the tongue?

b) Why was the Dorje Shugden in Gaden Lachi moved to a separate protector house, Dalai Lama asked it to be moved out  ( it remains there now on the first floor ) hence out of harms way. Destroying the Dorje Shugden statue in Gaden would have been a very symbolic action to destroy evil wont it? 

beggar

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Re: See monks being forced to swear in!
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 08:22:12 PM »
The CTA has never ever been efficient in taking care of Tibet and its people, and neither has it done  much to protect the Dharma. All it ever does is ban incarnations (Chankya Rolpa Dorje, Sharmapa) that somehow has gotten more wealth, influence and fame than itself. But of course, they cannot do anything to stop these incarnations from coming back, Chankya as Pabongkha and Sharmapa as himself.

And now they are setting a degenerate example influenced from countries with lesser Dharma knowledge: where lay people have the "right" to judge ordained members, as the lay people are the ones supporting them, therefore entitled to "control" the ordained sangha. Why not these lay people focus more on their Dharma practice rather than policing others?

You make some very good observations here, Ensapa.
It is true that no matter what they try to do, the government cannot stop true practitioners from their practice nor from coming back to continue their practice. As we have already been seeing, highly incarnate tulkus and DS Lamas have been taking rebirth further and further outside this little "village" (as yontenjamyang puts it haha!). Domo Geshe Rinpoche, for example, was born in the United States. This will make it more and more difficult for the CTA or any Dalai Lama supporters to do anything to these people. In the rest of the world, actions of the CTA would not be tolerated, after all.

Good point also about lay people just focusing on their practice. Yes, this is very true. Once you get involved in the politics, it will never end and you will always be forced to take sides. If we do want to do something positive for the situation, then we can serve Dorje Shugden best by promoting his good qualities, the benefits of his practice, how he has helped us etc and inspire others to engage in the practice or at the very least, learn the truth of his nature so that the suppression of DS practitioners and practice will be lessened and eventually eliminated over time.