enlightened / un-enlightened emanations

[hope rainbow]

Is an emanation of a Buddha always enlightened?

Or can an emanation of a Buddha be un-enlightened?

Or is an emanation of a Buddha always un-enlightened?

And if an emanation is un-enlightened, does the emanation create karma?

[hope rainbow]

This question arose when I read this post on another topic on this website:

Just some sharing from what I heard from a old monk from Dromo Gompa.

Jowo Chingare is manifestation of Chenrezig in unenlightened form.

Although Jowo Chingare is in a unenlightened form but he/she having the quality of an enlightened Buddha. The old monk also told me, Jowo Chingare is the protector of Atisha, Tsongkhapa and Amdo (Je Rinpoche's birth place).
He's white in color and he only drink milk when he taking trance.

Just some sharing

[yontenjamyang]

If an emanation is unenlightened, then the emanation cannot be from a Buddha as a Buddha by definition is enlightened. Otherwise the unenlightened emanation needs to practice to achieve enlightenment. Which is ridiculous.
Hence, an emanation of a Buddha is always enlightened. The article mentioned an unenlightened form ie a worldly form eg, gods, humans or even animal form. But the mind is enlightened. Hence, the action is always motivated by the highest wish for others.

[Big Uncle]

If an emanation is unenlightened, then the emanation cannot be from a Buddha as a Buddha by definition is enlightened. Otherwise the unenlightened emanation needs to practice to achieve enlightenment. Which is ridiculous.
Hence, an emanation of a Buddha is always enlightened. The article mentioned an unenlightened form ie a worldly form eg, gods, humans or even animal form. But the mind is enlightened. Hence, the action is always motivated by the highest wish for others.

True, first of all - the power of magical emanation as mentioned in the King of Prayers is a power achieved with enlightenment. However, what may confused some is the actions of certain emanations. Certain emanations may seem to have gone bad and may seem to not conform to what we think an emanation should act. However, even with the harmful actions, if they are true emanations, the harmful act would become beneficial in the long run. I heard also that after the emanations have completed the work, it will dissolved back to the main emanator. This could be 1 lifetime or 16 lifetimes depending on the scope of work.

[Klein]

This question arose when I read this post on another topic on this website:

Just some sharing from what I heard from a old monk from Dromo Gompa.

Jowo Chingare is manifestation of Chenrezig in unenlightened form.

Although Jowo Chingare is in a unenlightened form but he/she having the quality of an enlightened Buddha. The old monk also told me, Jowo Chingare is the protector of Atisha, Tsongkhapa and Amdo (Je Rinpoche's birth place).
He's white in color and he only drink milk when he taking trance.

Just some sharing

The key here is unenlightened form and enlightened mind. An emanation of an enlightened mind can take on an unenlightened form such as the human form. In other words, although the form is NOT enlightened, the mind is.

The results from this being would show that of an enlightened being whereby the environment they are at and beings around them would experience positive changes.

The reason for a Buddha to emanate in an unenlightened form is so that unenlightened beings like us can see and learn from the Buddha directly.

[pgdharma]

An emanation can be in an unenlightened form but must have the qualities of an enlightened being/mind. Buddhas or enlightened beings can emanate into an emanation of an unenlightened form eg. a human being so that the enlightened being can be near us and guide us in our spiritual path.

As long as the mind is enlightened and the motivation is to benefit others than there is no harm if the enlightened mind is in an unenlightened form.

[Dondrup Shugden]

There had been a lot of accusation that Dorje Shugden is an unenlightened being.  However only with consistent practise and reverence to the Deity will we realise whether the Deity is enlightened or otherwise.

As a thought before practice, the information on this post is a good guide.  Experience and results will tell that Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, a Buddha to assist us in our spiritual practice.

Very informative post.

[MoMo]

From online source:
“One early Buddhist text, the Samaññaphala Sutta lists the ability to create a “mind-made body” (manom?yak?ya) as one of the "fruits of the contemplative life". Commentarial texts such as the Patisambhidamagga and the Visuddhimagga state that this mind-made body is how Gautama Buddha and arhats are able to travel into heavenly realms using the continuum of the mindstream (bodhi) and it is also used to explain the multiplication miracle of the Buddha as illustrated in the Divyavadana, in which the Buddha multiplied his emanation body ("nirmita") into countless other bodies which filled the sky. A Buddha or other realized being is able to project many such "nirmitas" simultaneously in an infinite variety of forms, in different realms simultaneously.[7]
The Indian Buddhist philosopher Vasubandhu defined nirmita as a siddhi or psychic power (Pali: iddhi, Skt: ?ddhi) developed through Buddhist discipline, concentrative discipline and wisdom (samadhi) in his seminal work on Buddhist philosophy, the Abhidharmako?a.Asanga's Bodhisattvabh?mi defines nirm??a as a magical illusion and “basically, something without a basis”.[8] The Madhyamakaschool of philosophy sees all reality as empty of essence, all reality is seen as a form of nirmita or magical illusion.”—Wikipedia
We could understand from it that Buddha’s emanation cloud be anything from animate to inanimate as long as it that to benefit sentient being.

“And if an emanation is un-enlightened, does the emanation create karma?”
Or How do we tell the different between an enlighten and non-enlighten being?

When we understand “cause similar to result and result similar to cause” and by examine the result we could inferred its cause. If the result was alleviating sentient being of their suffering and brings about lasting happiness through wisdom then we concluded that the causes must be of enlightened. Hence, it would be very clear that it will not accrued any karma as mind stream of an enlightened beings was known to transcended that.

[fruven]

If an emanation is unenlightened, then the emanation cannot be from a Buddha as a Buddha by definition is enlightened. Otherwise the unenlightened emanation needs to practice to achieve enlightenment. Which is ridiculous.
Hence, an emanation of a Buddha is always enlightened. The article mentioned an unenlightened form ie a worldly form eg, gods, humans or even animal form. But the mind is enlightened. Hence, the action is always motivated by the highest wish for others.

True, first of all - the power of magical emanation as mentioned in the King of Prayers is a power achieved with enlightenment. However, what may confused some is the actions of certain emanations. Certain emanations may seem to have gone bad and may seem to not conform to what we think an emanation should act. However, even with the harmful actions, if they are true emanations, the harmful act would become beneficial in the long run. I heard also that after the emanations have completed the work, it will dissolved back to the main emanator. This could be 1 lifetime or 16 lifetimes depending on the scope of work.

Thanks for the explanation. Even in inanimate forms it brings benefit to sentient beings. When we cannot determine whether 'ordinary' beings are emanations of Buddhas we still need to apply the Dharma and treat them accordingly. The 'ordinary' beings could be emanations of Buddhas for us to practice compassion. If we do so then we can accumulate good karma and merits. If we do the opposite we accumulate negative karma.