Is it ok to introduce DS to people who are doing 'illegal' traits

[VS]

DS in very compassionate and appropriate in this degenerate age.  However, is it ok to introduce DS to people who are in the 'illegal' traits with the hope that they'll be blessed and turn over a new leaf?

[Ensapa]

Why not? DS is a Buddha, he can only benefit. But on the other hand if these people tell everyone it will give DS a bad impression. But it might be possible that if you introduce you will plant a very strong connection in their mind and they might even switch professions to do something that are better and not illegal.

But if you ask me, i think you should. DS could change his way of thinking and help him to transform because DS is a Buddha, a very powerful Buddha who can swiftly assist us. If your introduce to him at least there is this chance he will benefit rather than none at all if you dont introduce.

[Losang_Tenpa]

Maybe introducing them to the 3 principal paths would be of more benefit.

My Teacher says that without a foundation of these 3 paths, a Protector can not be of much benefit.

I have come to the conclusion that it is much more important to share the 3 principal paths than it is to introduce our Protector to those with no solid basis.

[Losang_Tenpa]

I also think it is much more important to 'promote' the 3 principal paths than it is to 'promote' Dorje Shugden. 

[hope rainbow]

I also think it is much more important to 'promote' the 3 principal paths than it is to 'promote' Dorje Shugden. 

There is indeed very little that can be done without at least a mind of renunciation.
But if I encounter someone who has very little karma to even understand the basics of renunciation, and yet if that person is open to the practice of DS, perhaps then it is better?
This may bring causes to engage in the 3 paths later and also create imprints.
Though essentially, I agree, there is no sense in a Protector if what is protected is being ignored...

[Zach]

I also think it is much more important to 'promote' the 3 principal paths than it is to 'promote' Dorje Shugden. 

Yes thats true Tenpa-la intorducing people to refuge would be a good start as well.

[DharmaDefender]

Whilst I completely agree with Losang Tenpa, I think people engaging in illicit activities are probably not going to be interested in the three principle paths... of course I am willing to be proved totally wrong! in any case, 'much' and 'more' are relative terms. For the people that vs are talking about, I think some benefit is better than 'none'

Dorje Shugden can be used as a conduit to attract people to the three principle paths. Forgive me if Im wrong in saying this but in my experience with him, his assistance tends to be extremely swift at first, with few Dharma teachings involved (or rather the teachings arent so heavy on the philosophy - its just very straightforward advice)... and then when your faith in him has taken root, his assistance slowly transforms into something 'slower' with more Dharma teachings included.

Of course ultimately the best protector for us is an unshakeable belief in karma. The Dharma protectors can do nowt for us if we dont hav the merit to receive their assistance.

[DharmaDefender]

DS in very compassionate and appropriate in this degenerate age.  However, is it ok to introduce DS to people who are in the 'illegal' traits with the hope that they'll be blessed and turn over a new leaf?

Hey VS to answer your original question, I think its perfectly appropriate. If we started saying Dorje Shugden wasnt for this and that person, and this persons not clean enough for Dorje Shugden, wed be just like them Christians and we wouldnt to become like them Christians now aye?

Anyway, if Dorje Shugden doesnt make a distinction regarding who he helps, then why should we? Ive not heard him say he wont help someone because of their skin colour, religion, culture, much less choice of livelihood.

[kris]

I would think that whatever you do, it is still OK to practice any Buddha's practice. However, I feel that DS is exceptionally beneficially because He will give you wealth to attract you to Him, and plant seed of Manjushri to him.

The Dorje Shugden chapel in Thailand is in Surawong area, it is a red light district with a lot of "illegal" stuffs going on. It is said that the chapel is specifically installed there to purify the bad karma of the people who did all the "illegal" stuff.. Therefore, I would say that it is definitely OK to introduce DS to them!

[WisdomBeing]

i agree with DharmaDefender who said that people who are into illegal stuff are rather unlikely to be attracted to the three principal paths. However if Dorje Shugden can grant them some worldly wishes, it may provide the incentive for them to propitiate Dorje Shugden and that would be how Dorje Shugden hooks them in to the Dharma which he protects.

I always think that it's better for everyone to have some benefit than none at all. These people who are into illegal stuff are the ones who really need the blessings of Dorje Shugden to turn their lives around, so why would the practice not be appropriate for them? If the practice is for holy people only, 99% of the planet would be excluded.

[Galen]

Let's face it, the people who are in the illegal trade are most likely into it because of the money and not Dharma. If we go on deep with them, they will definitely be turned off. So, it would be good if we introduce Dorje Shugden to them because we intro them to something they are interested in i.e. wealth.

By practicing Dorje Shugden their sort term objective of getting money will be fulfilled and this will lead them to believe more in Dorje Shugden and hopefuly they will continue with it. They may not be enlightened this lifetime, the very least, there is dharma seed being planted into their mind, so that they can continue their dharma journey when the seed ripens in their mindstream.

In the mean time, they can intro DS to more people if DS has helped them.

[Aurore]

I would think that whatever you do, it is still OK to practice any Buddha's practice. However, I feel that DS is exceptionally beneficially because He will give you wealth to attract you to Him, and plant seed of Manjushri to him.

The Dorje Shugden chapel in Thailand is in Surawong area, it is a red light district with a lot of "illegal" stuffs going on. It is said that the chapel is specifically installed there to purify the bad karma of the people who did all the "illegal" stuff.. Therefore, I would say that it is definitely OK to introduce DS to them!

Whoever who build Dorje Shugden chapel in the red light district in Thailand must have wanted to benefit the people around there. I do not think the whole motivation is to to help the people in Surawong who is conducting "illegal" business to do more harm to themselves. On the other hand, it's to give them hope.

Some prostitutes in Thailand comes from such poor background that they have no choice but to engage in such "work" to support and feed their families back in the village. They actually feel like they need to repay the kindness of their parents who gave life to them by being a good son/daughter.

The benefit they reap from praying to DS can help them generate merits to have a better life in future. Secondly, by seeing the image of DS plants the seed of Manjushri in their midstream in hope that these people can actually practice DS and meet Maitreya in the future. When that happens, it is a blessing.

[Positive Change]

DS in very compassionate and appropriate in this degenerate age.  However, is it ok to introduce DS to people who are in the 'illegal' traits with the hope that they'll be blessed and turn over a new leaf?

Well... very simply... Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and to introduce a Buddha to anyone is beneficial even if it is to plant seeds in their mindstream. After all, it is much better to do that then not do anything at all. I remember this phrase which my mother drummed into me as a child (coming from a Catholic upbringing) growing up:

"For evil to triumph is for good to do nothing!"

Yes, it means fence sitters who think they are not doing anything wrong by not doing anything is just as guilty as it means we do not care enough.

So coming back to the question if it is ok to introduce Our King to people who are doing 'illegal' traits, well, they most certainly need it so why not!

[Barzin]

Just like what everyone has stated that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha so why not plant some Manjushri in people's mind stream?  I just thought if we can choose to introduce the practice or not but we can not stop who is praying to him.  Just like Buddha, wouldn't the "illegal traits" praying to Buddha too? for material gains and wealth?  So is it ok?  All compassion Buddha are equal, they would want the same for us, to eliminate our sufferings, plant seeds, develop an altruistic mind and eventually enlightenment. So i would gather that whether we have the merits to become enlighten this life time or not, it is essential to even practice Dharma and plant seeds.  It might not ripen this life but when something triggers, it will open next life...  So whether the people is good or bad, they are deserve to live without sufferings, unhappiness and anger.    And DS is the protector of this very age, he is swift and decisive.  He will use our attachment to attract us to Dharma and when we start practicing, only we can eliminate our unhappiness and sufferings...   So the best if to introduce DS to them regardless what they are.  We all deserve a chance.

[triesa]

i agree with DharmaDefender who said that people who are into illegal stuff are rather unlikely to be attracted to the three principal paths. However if Dorje Shugden can grant them some worldly wishes, it may provide the incentive for them to propitiate Dorje Shugden and that would be how Dorje Shugden hooks them in to the Dharma which he protects.

I always think that it's better for everyone to have some benefit than none at all. These people who are into illegal stuff are the ones who really need the blessings of Dorje Shugden to turn their lives around, so why would the practice not be appropriate for them? If the practice is for holy people only, 99% of the planet would be excluded.

Dorje Shugden is manifested particulary for this degenerated age where greed, anger and desire prevail every single mind of the deluded sentient being. So it is most appropriate to introduce Dorje Shugen to people who are doing illegal traits, same reasoning with what WisdomBeing has mentioned above.

At the age, how many of us go to temple to pray for enlightenment?? And how many of us go to temple to pray for more money? Dorje Shugden can sepcifically target our greedy minds by fulfilling our wishes and then in turn when we make the connection with him, we are allowing a chanel for further dharma to be taught.

There are 5 forms of Dorje Shugden, for people who are in illegal business, perhaps introducing them "Karma Shugden"would be great as they are completely deluded and are loaded with heavy negative energies.

Five families (aggregates)

Duldzin Dorje Shugden: consciousness. He gives wisdom and shows the way.

Vairochana Shugden: form. He purifies negative karma and obstacles.

Ratna Shugden: feeling. He increases what is good.

Padma Shugden: discrimination. He brings peace of mind.

Karma Shugden: compositional factors. He helps in overcoming delusions and harmful energies