The 6 Realms

[rossoneri]

As a Buddhist whether there's a existence of 6 Realms or not it really doesn't matter or does it? Why would people worry about after life whereby we can actually make good use of our life towards dharma?  Why do we worry if we were to burn over and over again if we are practicing dharma? Why do we have to concern if we have to walk through a field of broken glass if we are practicing dharma?

And what is wrong with being nice, compassion, generous, helpful, joyful, thoughtful and kind towards another person. I think one should inject such qualities in our life and it really does not matter if there's 6 Realms or not.

[Midakpa]

In "Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand", Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche is so precise about the location of the hot hells: "The Hell of Continual Resurrection is thirty-two thousand yojanas under Bodhgaya in India. The other hot hells are below this hell, with four thousand yojanas between each of them. All the ground and all the mountains in these hells are composed entirely of red-hot, intense burning iron; the ground, like that in the human realms, is not at all flat, not at all like the palm of your hand." (Day 11, p. 325) (N.B. 1 yojana is about 15 miles long)

Can Pabongka Rinpoche be wrong?

Theravada Buddhists believe that there are 31 planes of existence and they can describe the exact location of each of these planes. According to Egerton C. Baptist, "There are people, even among Buddhists, who do not believe in the existence of the non-human unhappy "Lower Worlds" .... They seem to think that these unhappy 'states' are actually experienced on the human plane itself because they see much misery, in varying degrees, among human beings ...Heavens too, to them, are on the human plane itself, because they see wealthy, well-nourished, happy, human beings in their midst....  Nevertheless, ... Buddhism teaches that ... there is much misery on the non-human planes, as also much happiness in (other) non-human realms." (1981: )

[brian]

This is an interesting topic! I believe in Buddhism and buddhism says there is heaven n there is hell. Whether the reality hell or we are in a "hell" situation. I believe in such as as we know there are form and formless beings out there in this world and other worlds (again these different realms do exist).

I have witnessed the existence of spirits and this has made me believe of such realms for spirits do exist, so hell realm should exist as well since we have heaven realms for gods and himan realms. Animal realms also came into pitcure. So hell realm should exist and it is depicted clearly in Lamrim also.

Pabongka Rinpoche can't be making all these up rite? I mean there's no reason why High Lamas lie about a certain existence in order for us to believe. Simple enough is that if we believe in Buddhism, then we should believe in the existence of such realms and beings out there

[negra orquida]

As a Buddhist whether there's a existence of 6 Realms or not it really doesn't matter or does it? Why would people worry about after life whereby we can actually make good use of our life towards dharma?  Why do we worry if we were to burn over and over again if we are practicing dharma? Why do we have to concern if we have to walk through a field of broken glass if we are practicing dharma?

I think it is very important to appreciate the significance of the 6 realms.. I believe it is one of the basic fundamentals of Buddhism that one has to believe in in order to practice Buddhism well.  If we disregarded the 6 realms, then it is the same as not believing in future lives and the workings of karma.  If we think it doesn't matter whether the lower realms existed or not, how can we effectively develop the "fear" to be reborn in the lower realms and therefore have the sincere wish to be free from the lower realms which in turn leads to taking refuge with the 3 jewels to embark on the beginner's scope (at least)?

Moreover, if we think "it doesn't matter whether the 6 realms existed or not", this is the same as being selective in learning Dharma.  How can we think "everything else we learn in Dharma is important but just not the stuff about the 6 realms" ? Why would Pabongka Rinpoche talk about the 6 realms in the Lamrim if it didn't really matter?  It matters very much! How can we appreciate our precious human life if we don't know the downfall of being reborn in the other realms and the tremendous difficulty to be reborn back as a human?

Until we attain Buddhahood, we cannot be lax and think we have nothing to worry about being reborn in the other realms because we are "practicing Dharma" in this life. To assume that we will be ok just because we are "Dharma practitioners" now is very risky and a self-laid vicious trap. How sure are we that we are REALLY practicing Dharma purely?

[Q]

Hell exists and at the sametime it doesn't. Very interesting.

I was pretty exposed to Christianity when I was younger, so hell, to me is very very real.

However, recently I had a friendly discussion with some Dharma friends regarding the hell realm, and it pretty much came up as what was posted here in this thread.

When I asked the question about "who are all these hell beings? why do they exist in hell to torture? Are they beings that are there due to their bad karma as well? do they too get a chance for liberation?"

With these questions, someone very wise told me... hell beings are the projections of our mind. They exist and yet they don't exist.

For that reason, hell exist only through the projection of the mind. Which is why, when dying, it is very important to not let our minds disturbed, or else we may bring it to the next existance.

To answer the question... I think it will be easier for modern people especially beginners in spirituality to develop believe and understand the 6 realms. Without knowledge and wisdom to understand the nature of the mind, to directly tell them that hell exists through your mind projections... I believe will be very very detrimental for the individual.

[lotus1]

This is really an interesting question. Is it important for us to know Hell exist or not? If it does not exist, will it encourage us to making all the negative actions that leads to negative karma? Or if it does not exist, will we still be so frighten to create negative actions so as not to be rebirth in the lower realms?
I choose to believe that it is real as it is mentioned in the Lamrim. However, I find that it is more important that when I believe that it is real, that it leads me to not committing the negative action so that I would not be rebirth in the lower realms and also to treasure the current human rebirth more and make full use of this rebirth to practice Dharma.
By believing that it is real and do good, it also helps to prevent me from suffering the hell stage of mind in this current life and future life.

[RedLantern]

Whether or not the 6 realms exists or not... it doesn't really matter because we are all in the state of potentially experiencing the realm of hell.

Even if hell is really a projection  of the mind... and it does appear to be so, as long as that mind remains, there is nothing we can do to change it except learning the Dharma to eradicate that mind. The state of mind is very important... which is why even people living in the human realm, if their mind is not trained... can view that living in the human realm itself as living in hell.

[dsiluvu]

Whether or not the 6 realms exists or not... it doesn't really matter because we are all in the state of potentially experiencing the realm of hell.

Even if hell is really a projection  of the mind... and it does appear to be so, as long as that mind remains, there is nothing we can do to change it except learning the Dharma to eradicate that mind. The state of mind is very important... which is why even people living in the human realm, if their mind is not trained... can view that living in the human realm itself as living in hell.

This is so absolutely TRUE. Heaven could be a place on earth or hell! But one thing's for sure we will all leave this place sooner or later and what matters most at the time of passing is how we've led our lives and where will our transfer to... animal, hell, spirit, godly realm?? So our karma will be following us, good and bad.

If we have come across the Dharma and found a Dharma teacher, we should cherish it for it is like finding a gold mine and we are so very fortunate for only a Lama our teacher can guide us at the time of death. Come to think of it Buddhist teachings and practices all revolves and involves in preparing one for that crucial critical moment - death.

It's like we live in this life is like a dream... it is only temporary and in time we will need to wake up from this dream in to another reality... or is it another dream? Hmmm....

[ratanasutra]

i do believe that the 6 realms do exist either the state of mind or the place.. for the place i see human and animal, i see people who since born till grow up have a very easy life and every thing are ready for them like they are the god who stay in haven as the same time i also see people who born in such a very bad condition and face with various difficulties and suffer continuously like they stay in hell.

And i have experience with the spirit so i believe there is a hungry ghost realms, i sometime had very bad experience and suffer a lot like stay in the hell, and sometime i feel very happy and lucky that can get things i want easily like i'm a god and of course some time i have jealousy of other people.  And i do believe most of us have these experience before, just the matter of how we realize and do something about it?

   

[kris]

The first sets of CDs and books about Buddhism which I have listened/read is from Ajahn Brahm www.ajahnbrahm.org

At that time I don't know about the technicality such as the six realms, and when heard about the hell and such, I don't believe it all. However, when Ajahn Brahm talked about the hell, he is very skillful and I think what He said is similar to what the Zen master was saying.

For me, because I have not seen hell before, so it was very difficult for me to believe that there is such thing as cold hell, hot hell, hell of uninterrupted pain, etc. But when Ajahn Brahm explained that we can view hell as just suffering, it made it easier for me to accept. He went on to explain that hell can happen within human also. For example, when family members fighting for inheritance with each other, that itself is suffering.

As such, I felt it is the Dharma teachers' skillful means to teach the doctrine to different audiences.

[Positive Change]

Hell will exist if we create the causes for it to exist. On that same token, hell will not exist should we not create the causes for it to exist. I believe we can go by this logic as regardless of whether the physical aspect of hell exists for all, if we do not create the causes for us to “go there” it would not be a reality and hence it does not exist per se.

It may well exist for someone who has created the causes for it to exist, hence it does exist in that persons perception. Whichever reality one chooses to believe, the fact it, Hell CAN exist and WILL manifest should we create the causes for it and the reverse will also apply.

This also applies to the other realms of existence I believe so best is to “aim” for the perfect opportune condition which is our very human existence we have now! But alas, we are here now so why not just do what we have to NOW? Why hope to return to practice in our next life. We may not be so lucky… in fact I know we may not be so lucky if we don't practice now!

[RedLantern]

As the Buddha himself said,the truth is there for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.If you look at the world and your state of mind,it is not so difficult to understand the six realms.The god realm represent pride,the jealous god realm envy.The human realm doubt.The animal realm,hatred and anger.Have you experienced any of these states?We all do.If you look at the six realms from the viewpoint of your own mind,they make a lot of sense.

[Tenzin K]

I believe the 6 realms. For others whether there believe is really depend on how the perceive. For one who believes it should be due to understanding of cause and effect. I even see the 6 realm exist in the human realm which the suffering somehow look the same.

For example a person who suffered from bad diseases which make him experiences physical pain all the time.


Everything is depend on our karma and if we are able to purify and change our negative mind this will make situation better.