Is Dorje Shugden a Spirit??

[lotus1]

I agreed with Rinchen that it is most probably the followers of HHDL that take it literally Dorje Shugden is a spirit and trying to stop whoever is practicing it even to the extend to kill or harm anyone even to the extend of harming high lama such HH Trijang Rinpoche. For them, they feel that they are protecting others from being harm for not spreading Dorje Shugden. I would think that it is due to they are lack of knowledge. Therefore, our role of spreading the truth of who is Dorje Shugden is very important to educate them. Dorjeshugden.com and forum has been doing a great job and we need to help them to promote their articles so that more will understand who Dorje Shugden is and accept him and get his blessings.

[Ensapa]

I understood what you meant, is just that I feel that there are so many people that threaten Trijang Rinpoche due to his potential influential powers that the followers of Dalai Lama are not welling to accept.

Hence, the followers would be acting on their own to stop DS practitioners from practicing what they are practicing. Even going to the extreme of threatening to kill DS practitioners.

no matter what, that is still ridiculous on many levels as it would mean getting rid of the Dalai Lama's Guru, the person who is most important to the Dalai Lama, for purely political reasons. The Dalai Lama's influence is already very well established, so why is there a need to do this sort of thing some more? i find it illogical so to speak, and its done merely out of fanatical devotion. This shows that little has changed since the 5th Dalai Lama's time, where Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen was murdered because he overshadowed the Dalai Lama.

[Rinchen]

no matter what, that is still ridiculous on many levels as it would mean getting rid of the Dalai Lama's Guru, the person who is most important to the Dalai Lama, for purely political reasons. The Dalai Lama's influence is already very well established, so why is there a need to do this sort of thing some more? i find it illogical so to speak, and its done merely out of fanatical devotion. This shows that little has changed since the 5th Dalai Lama's time, where Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen was murdered because he overshadowed the Dalai Lama.

Yes, indeed very little has changed in these degenerated times. Even if you would to read a dharma book about how people 200 years ago acted and behaved, when you compared to the people now, you will see no difference. The only difference that you will notice is how has the technology has brought all dharmic information to us all over the world easily.

But our actions are still the same. We are not willing to change because we choose the easier way out. And it is to enjoy ourselves, convincing that the karmic impacts will not be huge no matter what we do. Reason being that we "practice" dharma, and we think that our negative karma are all cleared by the little things that we have done for dharma.

[Ensapa]

Yes, indeed very little has changed in these degenerated times. Even if you would to read a dharma book about how people 200 years ago acted and behaved, when you compared to the people now, you will see no difference. The only difference that you will notice is how has the technology has brought all dharmic information to us all over the world easily.

But our actions are still the same. We are not willing to change because we choose the easier way out. And it is to enjoy ourselves, convincing that the karmic impacts will not be huge no matter what we do. Reason being that we "practice" dharma, and we think that our negative karma are all cleared by the little things that we have done for dharma.

I would say that the main reason why is because CTA has failed again and again to learn from their own mistakes on this. They just keep repeating the same mistakes simply because they fail to learn from history. There is no excuse for their actions or justifications. Countries that learn from history can move on and progress, such as China for example. Or Europe, or the US. But sadly CTA is still too obsessed with trying to 'preserve' their heritage and culture, but in the completely wrong way. Lets hope they wake up from this.

[Rinchen]

I would say that the main reason why is because CTA has failed again and again to learn from their own mistakes on this. They just keep repeating the same mistakes simply because they fail to learn from history. There is no excuse for their actions or justifications. Countries that learn from history can move on and progress, such as China for example. Or Europe, or the US. But sadly CTA is still too obsessed with trying to 'preserve' their heritage and culture, but in the completely wrong way. Lets hope they wake up from this.

Why would it be CTA's fault when the progress of each individual is up to that person themselves? Correct, if Tibet and the cause to independence for Tibet is not  progressing is CTA's fault. But hoe people judge Dorje Shugden has nothing to do with CTA nor the Dalai Lama. It is just a way of how they themselves view it. That is why, there are some people that support Dorje Shugden and practice it, but there are some that are against it, even going to extreme levels to show their displease of Shugden practitioners.

All these actions are all based on the thought and mindset of that particular party. We cannot just simply point fingers in any way that we like blaming everyone in the way as long as we think that they are not right. We should be analyzing the situation and judging it based on that and not our prejudice to a party.

[Ensapa]

I would say that the main reason why is because CTA has failed again and again to learn from their own mistakes on this. They just keep repeating the same mistakes simply because they fail to learn from history. There is no excuse for their actions or justifications. Countries that learn from history can move on and progress, such as China for example. Or Europe, or the US. But sadly CTA is still too obsessed with trying to 'preserve' their heritage and culture, but in the completely wrong way. Lets hope they wake up from this.

Why would it be CTA's fault when the progress of each individual is up to that person themselves? Correct, if Tibet and the cause to independence for Tibet is not  progressing is CTA's fault. But hoe people judge Dorje Shugden has nothing to do with CTA nor the Dalai Lama. It is just a way of how they themselves view it. That is why, there are some people that support Dorje Shugden and practice it, but there are some that are against it, even going to extreme levels to show their displease of Shugden practitioners.

All these actions are all based on the thought and mindset of that particular party. We cannot just simply point fingers in any way that we like blaming everyone in the way as long as we think that they are not right. We should be analyzing the situation and judging it based on that and not our prejudice to a party.

Because no matter how strong an individual is, they are only just one person. Also, they can be easily influenced and suppressed by a group of people. This is called the herd mentality. We have seen how Lobsang Sanggay was pressured to bow in to the whims of the other members of the CTA. If one person is doing all the work while the others is not only not supporting this person, but are doing things to neutralize the work of this person, it would be pretty clear that this person would be left with no choice but to leave.

[WisdomBeing]

I think that one individual can make all the difference. After all, the greatest movements of change in history, whether positive or negative, came about because of one individual - like Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln, Hitler, Mao Tze Tung etc. Of course it is not easy to go against the crowd but it is possible. It just depends on your tenacity and perseverance. Even in Dorje Shugden lineage, look at the DS lamas - they have basically been on their own - look at Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and how the New Kadampa Tradition has grown despite being ostracised in the Tibetan Buddhist world. How did that happen? Through faith in Dorje Shugden and never giving up. So yes, i do believe that we can make a difference if we stand firm and do our bit.

[Rinchen]

Totally agree with Wisdom Being. You have said all my thoughts out.

No matter how we are faced with a situation, it is because of our faith and perseverance that would allow us to succeed. It is just like how a company is started. The company would start with one party, influencing others, bringing in the funds and talent to make the change. It is because of that first person that is why a business would be successful. And it also take time for the business to grow, it does not happen within a day.

Hence, it is the same in  Lobsang Sanggay's case. He would take time to influence and change the way that CTA works from within, by slowly getting supporters and persevering to his beliefs.

[maricisun]

To mu understanding Dorje Shugden is an Enlightened Being. How else he has the clairvoyance to help the Dalai Lama to escape and protect him throughout. If DS is a spirit why worship DS in the first place as an Enlightened Being and then say he is a spirit. There are so many practitioners out there practicing DS meaning to say that all of them are wrong? Please get the facts correct before saying that DS is a spirit.

[Gabby Potter]

There's no way Lord Dorje Shugden is a spirit, not even close. If Dorje Shugden were to be a spirit like what those anti Shugdeners would say, how do you explain the reincarnations of some of the most well known Lamas? Since people call this an impure practise, how are they going to explain that? No one is asking everyone to do Dorje Shugden's practise, it's your choice, so please respect other peoples' religion because we all want the same thing, religion freedom and respect.

[Jason Statham]

Is Dorje Shugden a spirit? Definitely not! Why? Because for the past 400 years, there are a lots of great Lamas like Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche have been practicing Dorje Shugden. Not just one lifetime but they came back as reincarnation. How is it possible for these Highly Attained Lamas to be fooled by Dorje Shugden for more than 400 years?  Dorje Shugden is a great protector that has protected me and family countless of times. If Dorje Shugden is a spirit then why would he help and save so many people? And it also said that when everybody in Tibet suspected that Dorje Shugden is a spirit, they tried to demolish him through fire puja, but in the end Setrap came to rescue Dorje Shugden and brought him to Tushita (the heaven of Tsongkhapa). High Attained Lamas sometimes might be wrong but what Setrap who is an enlightened being?